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> Le Numérique Est-il Fidèle ?, Illusion ou réalité ?
wfplb
post Sat 2 Sep 2006, 00:51
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Finalement... le numérique n'est-il pas un leurre, une invention des marchands ? blink.gif

Overload in Signal Conversion

Is There a Future for High-Rez?


--------------------
Plombier, DéZingueur de HP, ferblantier
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Miss Kiki
post Sat 2 Sep 2006, 09:40
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La madame est partie.
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super article, j'ai fait un petit digest des passages les plus parlants :

The loudness war, as we shall see, has now
become so furious that equipment downstream
of mastering is not able to pass or
reproduce the audio material without adding
signicant distortion to it. It appears to be
a contradiction that the professional audio
industry promotes better standards such as
96 kHz sampling, 24 bit resolution, DSD, exotic
dither schemes etc. and the hi- world
is becoming conscious about jitter-rejection
etc. – while the current main delivery format,
16 bit/44.1 kHz, is becoming more and
more abused. Most pop releases now get so
much distortion added during reproduction
that 16 bit resolution is completely overkill.

The distortion problems arise because of
more or less conscious use of clipping in the
digital domain during production and mastering.
Digital processors may have familiar
names like "Limiter" or "Compressor", but
there is no guarantee they will have much
in common with their analog counterparts,
and not even that they obey the fundamental
sampling criteria. Clipping can also be
hidden inside computer processors, DAWs or
digital mixers, making later recovery difcult
or in many cases impossible.

While frequent clipping in the digital domain
can cause listening fatigue, things are
made worse during mastering when clipped
material is normalized to digital full scale.
Such material will later be subject to additional
distortion during data-reduction, sample
rate conversion and digital to analog conversion.

Both narrow-band and broadband (e.g.
clipped) signals can have a theoretical peak
value larger than the actual representation
in the digital format. The simplest example
is a high frequency sine wave. Depending on
frequency and phase the peak value of the
digital sine wave representation may be up
to 3 dB lower than the theoretical, or analog,
peak value. If this headroom is used for
increasing the digital gain, the peak value of
the reconstructed analog signal will be higher
than the DC value representing digital full
scale, 0 dBFS.

One way of avoiding the problem of clipping
is to reduce the overall peak level of the
recordings. As this also reduces the average
level it will probably be considered unacceptable
by many sound producing professionals,
so another solution is called for.
An alternative is to to reduce the digital level
in the playback environment prior to digital
to analog conversion. This would reduce
distortion only in future products, however,
leaving hundreds of millions of playback
devices with potential problems. The
price for this constructional measure is a reduced
signal-to-noise ratio in the D-to-A conversion
circuit.

Using an inter-sample precision digital limiter
with the threshold value set to -0.3 dBFS,
that is, basically just to reduce overshoots,
the distortion of the DACs disappeared almost
completely. The overall loudness of the
signal was not reduced, however, so for many
applications this seems to be the better option.

In conclusion, we have demonstrated that
the problem of overload in digital to analog
conversion, sample rate conversion and
in connection with data-reduction systems is
denitely present in practice.
Measuring and listening to in vivo signals
provide a strong evidence that headroom in
the digital production chain has been exhausted,
and that audio quality currently
may be limited for this reason rather than
a basic lack of resolution or a high enough
sample rate.


Because the audio industry is currently
stuck with non-intelligent level restrictions,
such as counting consecutive samples at full
scale, mastering engineers should start using
oversampled meters and limiters, or at
least normalize against e.g. -2 or -3 dBFS
rather than 0 dBFS. It should also be noted
that some data reduction codecs are even
more sensitive to excessively hot level than
a linear signalpath.


--------------------
La Miss est partie sur Second Life et se prélasse sur du sable fin, entourée de créatures de rêves dans une végétation luxuriante... enfin une retraite bien méritée !!!

Yodelhihoo. ;-)

NB : ne laissez pas de messages dans ma bal, je n'y suis plus...
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- wfplb   Le Numérique Est-il Fidèle ?   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 00:51
- - Miss Kiki   le pdf sur l'overload ici   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 08:57
|- - gasy   Très intéressante, cette discussion QUOTE (Mis...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 12:17
- - Mr.T   Très intéressant cet article effectivement. C...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 10:12
- - Miss Kiki   T pour que ce soit efficace il faut baisser un peu...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 10:19
- - blek   Ah oui, c'est vraiment très interressant. Merc...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 10:33
- - Mr.T   Oui nan mais quand même la Miss, ja sais un peu ça...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 10:41
- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (wfplb @ sam 2 sep 2006, 01:51) Fin...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 16:30
- - Messensib   Merci William d'avoir ouvert ce sujet à la sui...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 16:45
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Messensib @ sam 2 sep 2006, 17:45)...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 01:45
|- - Mr.T   QUOTE (wfplb @ dim 3 sep 2006, 02:45) - P...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 11:12
||- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (Mr.T @ dim 3 sep 2006, 12:12) QUOT...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 12:31
|||- - melenko   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ dim 3 sep 2006, 13:31)...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 19:52
|||- - gasy   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ dim 3 sep 2006, 12:31)...   Mon 4 Sep 2006, 09:49
||- - wfplb   QUOTE (Mr.T @ dim 3 sep 2006, 12:12) ... ...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 12:35
|- - Messensib   QUOTE (wfplb @ dim 3 sep 2006, 02:45) QUO...   Mon 4 Sep 2006, 15:12
- - julbul   QUOTE Mais je commence petit..... ha! et ç...   Sat 2 Sep 2006, 20:32
|- - Pame   QUOTE (julbul @ sam 2 sep 2006, 19:32) QU...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 00:50
|- - Pame   QUOTE (Pame @ sam 2 sep 2006, 23:50) QUOT...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 01:12
|- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (Pame @ mer 6 sep 2006, 02:12) J...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 11:03
|- - gasy   Si on pose cette hypothèse : pas de fidélité au ni...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 12:52
- - Miss Kiki   A propos, et quid des convertos du style sygma-del...   Sun 3 Sep 2006, 14:14
- - Messensib   Sniff !!!! je suis un incompris. C...   Mon 4 Sep 2006, 09:44
- - julbul   QUOTE Pour rester au ras des pâquerettes (comme il...   Mon 4 Sep 2006, 16:06
- - Messensib   Je viens de relire mon premier post (page 1) et je...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 20:39
|- - olafnoise   QUOTE (Messensib @ mar 5 sep 2006, 21:39)...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 21:36
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Messensib @ mar 5 sep 2006, 21:39)...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 23:03
- - Miss Kiki   Avant de parler chiffons je voulais proposer une c...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 20:53
|- - Messensib   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ mar 5 sep 2006, 21:53)...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 21:23
|- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (Messensib @ mar 5 sep 2006, 22:23)...   Tue 5 Sep 2006, 22:37
- - Miss Kiki   tu fais le filou ... ;-) Voilà l'extrait que ...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 00:16
- - Messensib   Si on parle de Gödel,et de ses théorèmes ( vers 19...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 10:58
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Messensib @ mer 6 sep 2006, 11:58)...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 23:05
- - gasy   Le numérique est-il fidèle ? Quand je relis cette ...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 10:59
- - Miss Kiki   L'erreur est dans la façon de dire les choses ...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 13:08
|- - gasy   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ mer 6 sep 2006, 13:08)...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 13:17
- - karlos   Finalement tout ceci résonne avec la caverne de So...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 13:38
- - Miss Kiki   je comprend pas ou tu veux en venir ... l'ore...   Wed 6 Sep 2006, 23:27
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 00:27)...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 00:24
||- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (wfplb @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 01:24) L...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 11:32
||- - LaPanthereRose   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 11:32)...   Mon 18 Dec 2006, 01:57
|- - Messensib   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 00:27)...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 12:02
- - gasy   QUOTE (wfplb @ mer 6 sep 2006, 23:05) .. ...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 10:36
- - karlos   QUOTE Je déteste Platon qui pense que la "réa...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 12:53
- - Messensib   Pardon à gasy et à miss kiki de ne pas avoir lu le...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 15:32
|- - Miss Kiki   QUOTE (Messensib @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 16:32)...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 15:40
|- - abdul6   QUOTE (Miss Kiki @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 16:40)...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 16:12
- - gasy   QUOTE (Messensib @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 12:02)...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 16:22
|- - abdul6   QUOTE (gasy @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 17:22) QUOT...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 16:36
- - julbul   QUOTE Finalement tout ceci résonne avec la caverne...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 20:15
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (julbul @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 21:15) On...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 08:31
|- - Messensib   QUOTE (wfplb @ ven 8 sep 2006, 09:31) QUO...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 14:49
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Messensib @ ven 8 sep 2006, 15:49)...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 23:27
|- - Messensib   QUOTE (wfplb @ sam 9 sep 2006, 00:27) QUO...   Sat 9 Sep 2006, 10:54
|- - LaPanthereRose   QUOTE (wfplb @ ven 8 sep 2006, 23:27) QUO...   Mon 18 Dec 2006, 02:43
|- - LaPanthereRose   (PS : il y avait aussi le problème de limiter à ce...   Wed 20 Dec 2006, 08:23
- - blek   "Tout n'est qu'illusion !" Ç...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 20:44
- - Miss Kiki   Appelle Lassie ... !!! ... ...   Thu 7 Sep 2006, 21:05
- - gasy   QUOTE (abdul6 @ jeu 7 sep 2006, 16:36) ce...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 10:27
- - karlos   QUOTE (wfplb @ ven 8 sep 2006, 07:31) Pou...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 15:22
|- - gasy   QUOTE (karlos @ ven 8 sep 2006, 15:22) De...   Fri 8 Sep 2006, 16:19
- - Messensib   Si je poste aujourd'hui ici, ce n'est pas ...   Fri 8 Dec 2006, 18:03
|- - wfplb   QUOTE (Messensib @ ven 8 déc 2006, 18:03)...   Sun 10 Dec 2006, 02:51
- - Blue velvet   La bataille des deux druides !   Mon 11 Dec 2006, 22:48
- - Messensib   Je viens de relire TOUT ce sujet. D'abord, je ...   Wed 20 Dec 2006, 09:54


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