How The Hell Can I Get Outdated Software?, ...software if i wanna buy a 7300/200 Options

[dr. schoft]

i dont have much money. and to do simple recording/sequence (1trackat a time, maye 2 but i doubt it) tasks. i wont be needing a G-something, right? im a guitarman and i just want to make some songs with midi drummachine, work out structures etc...

theres a company here in belgium that recycles macs and they sell a full equipped 7300/200 for 200euros. i wana buy that thing it looks very interesting for the price(for the research i have done on macs)

the only problem left is SOFTWARE, how do i get older versions of whatever cubase, cakewalk...

another thing: yes i wanna do those things on a computer. i worked with cakewalk pro audio 9 before on this computer (which is a pc that runs on windows and isnt mine) and i like that better than working on the stupid drummachine (alesis) on which i tend to lose my patience all the time. keep in mind that i dont have my own computer yet so im gonna use it for some other minimalistic things

you think id be allright for 400-500 euros?

any suggestions Highly Appreciated

and im sorry if theres been someone else before with a similar question. i looked for a bit and it looks like the most have a g3 or more. so before i got crazy i made my own thread

[dr. schoft]

well at least its being looked at

[lepetitmartien]

Just an hint… never post multiple question… it confuses everyone

Now a few answers:

You can use the 7300/200, but you won't do much more than your needs. With a small G3 you'd see the world some other way . Plugins for example. You'll be very hard pressed on the 7300. Even an Imac will do marvels (flee the 1st version without firewire though, you would be in e very tight place)

the price you gave for it seem ok, is there a screen with?

About softwares, have a look on classifieds, as it'll be the source (even if it's not legal, you won't be the owner of the licence) you'll can find old versions. Look on the sites of the editors, sometimes the oldies are there for free…

One thing you don't talk about are the midi interface (you can have the old serial ones for dirt cheap now, don't buy an Opcode save if you have the drivers with!) and what do you want to use for audio in. You can use the audio input of the mac but it's not an Apogee

Don't be too bad with G3s, mine is a reliable and powerfull beast even if it's not anymore up to date (BW 400)

[dr. schoft]

to start with: thanks a whole lot for your time and especially the info.

its just the price that keeps me from buying a g3.

to be honest: i haven't thought too much about the audio and midi stuff yet, soundcard is kindof the next step of research before i buy the Thing.

so yes i saw that 7300/200 for 200 with a 14 inch screen
but then today i even saw one on the net for 150 euros with a 17"!

then the Imacs that are provided with firewire are in such a priceclass that you'd better go for the more recent Powermacs anyway it seems to me as i have been seeing it for a little bit

i do realise that i'm gonna be kindov narrow with a 7300/200, but its for now anyway. just see that i can surf a little, burn cd's, and make music on that thing ets all i need. the fact is i just started working and moving out of my house at the same time. i need a computer urgently (contact with family and close friends across the ocean etc) and have saved no money. im saying that because i can already FEEL the following question coming up: "why dont you just be just a little patient and save money so you have a little more room to move in budget as well in a more powerful computer"

so now you people know.

[lepetitmartien]

A few thing you must consider too : there will be no USB so you rely on serial/ADB keyboards/mouse/printer/midi interface/modem

You'll can find them dirt cheap (be carefull you have the eventual drivers needed!)

You'll have an audio in CD quality, it can be used, but something better will be a PCI card.

If you want to use the mic input if there is one (can't remember), the minijack socket is peculiar as it powers the Apple original mic.

On the computer, just buy the most powerfull you can afford! Check that it has a lot of RAM, it's important, and it can get costly if you have to complete with some more.

(yes now we know everything and we'll tell it to News of the World to put you to shame

[dr. schoft]

"oh im so embarassed im not a geek", yeah right

now seriously, the ones i found Does have usb, what those guys do not actually recycle them but put computers together again, so they still do their job today, so USB is included, even Firewire is an option for 30 Euros, they even come with a year waranty. so i guess that stuff will be allright for now

This post has been edited by dr. schoft: Wed 5 Feb 2003, 09:43

[dr. schoft]

btw the 7300/200 is featured with 3PCI slots

[lepetitmartien]

Cool if you have USB and Firewire
for audio I/O it'll help a LOT

You can't imagine how fast you fill your PCIs
(I have 2 SCSI cards and a 2408 so it's full)

[dr. schoft]

well now. i would like to have a pretty simple USB Audio/MIDI device and i think ill probably stick with recording 1 track at a time.

What shoudl i be looking at?I guess that wouldnt leave me with real expensive stuff, would it?

[inocybe]

'lo

I thought I'd drop in and share some thoughts on the subject...

According to what you want to do you should get away with the computer you're willing to buy. There are a few issues though you need to consider..(some mentioned above already..)

Audio In.. The standard Mac audio interface on those machines is pretty good.. It's not pro quallity but it will give you good results. I've been using mine for ages now. (I have a G3 233Mhz) Adding USB and a USB audio interface can be some pain in the ass on those old machines (see why later on..)

Midi in ... A Serial midi interface is dead cheap right now. I have an Opcode one I simply got for free (15in, 15outs). See that your MIDI interface supports OMS (2.3.8, can be downloaded from the opcode website). Oms (open music system) is from Opcode, and although it's not the best program in the world, it brings midi to the Mac, without any need for drivers whatsoever. I've used several interfaces through OMS (USB & Serial), all worked fine. It's old, but it's tested (and supported!!)

OS.. Take carefull consideration on the OS you install. OS9 might be nice but it eats about 30Megs more RAM then OS 8.6. If you are planning to use internet heavilly, then go for OS9. Otherwise use OS8.6, it will do basic internet OK, has carbonlib support and take up a lot less RAM. Ideally go for 8.1 to get the most juice out of the machine.. Good USB support will probablly require OS9, and therefore it's better not to rely on USB. At all costs avoid OS 8.0,8.5 and anything above 9.0.4 (all the rest are updates concerning mac OSX classic compatebillity)

The soft.. This will be the hardest part. Especially if you want to keep it legal. You might find version of cubase 3/4 somewhere, but buying second hand software is as illegal as copying it. (It's in fact not allowed to sell old versions of software.) Search for it, try to find someone selling it (I do see them advertised now and then..) otherwise contact some mac/music people somewhere to find some old versions (or spend some time tracking P2P (hotmine/KDX, etc...).. again here, go as old as you can and still preserve the functionallity you need.. The older the versions the more happt it will feel itself on your old system..

RAM.. try to get as much as you can as you buy it.. It's old and finding the right RAM to fit in it might be a tendious task.. it's better to have it installed when you buy...

Price.. as you already noticed.. you can find them cheaper as 200Euro. (Especially since it's only a 14" screen..) .. look around.(especially for a bigger screen.. 17" inch is a minimum for most audio apps)

CD-Writer .. Don't fit an internal one.. get a LACIE external instead (YAMAHA drives).. those drives are rock solid and every body is ditching them since there is no way to get them OSX compatible. They are SCSI, but so is your mac.

Ideally you should try to find an old DTP machine. They will have all you need (RAM, screen, DiskSpace). And look around for add-ons. those things come dead cheap at the moment since n,o on uses SCSI, Serial, ADB devices anymore..

The points made already should cover what you need to know, other than software.. You probably already know the origional factory specs, but if not, CLICK HERE... The machine seems to be good enough to run some basic multi track software, but as pointed out so many times up there, finding it may be the hardest part of your project. My best advice would be searching ebay or any of the p2p networks. I know how hard it is finding older software first hand because I'm trying to feed a PowerMac 5500 my self.. Cubasis AV is what I'm looking for, and I too am a guitarist looking to turn my Mac into a simple 4 track recorder.. After all the headaches, I sometimes wunder if maybe the old Fostex and Tascam cassettes were really that bad... Then I remember that I can't bring up a good website on the 4 track, and I know why I go through all the troubles....
Best of luck to you and your project.. and what ever you do, post your findings, especially if you find a killer software archive or something us old farts could use.
Take care now ! ...... Tom

[xingu]

Hey Tom, might I inquire what operating system you're running? I did a quick search to familiarize myself with the 5500, and it looks like if you have your RAM maxed out at 128MB and have OS 8.6 or 9.1 installed, then you might be able to use Pro Tools Free. The 5500 isn't specifically listed as compatible, but I think the only other requirement is a 200mhz processor (and yours is 225). The other spec requirements can be found here. If all goes well, you should be able to turn your 5500 into a simple 8-track recorder, for free!

Hi There !
At the present time, My 5500 is 64 megs shy of max, but the chips are on order. I'm running OS-8.1 and considering 8.6.. I won't be takeing it to OS-9 because of all the problems I have read about with that OS on older equipment.. I looked into the free version of Pro Tools, but I have yet to try it. I'll give it a shot soon, and post my findings. One program I know worked on other systems such as these was Cakewalk's Metro 4, but since Cakewalk sold off the Metro line, finding old versions is getting harder every day.
My experience in digital music is 99% PC based.. I use Acid Pro 4, Cubase SX, CoolEdit Pro, Cakewalk Express 8 ( simple is GOOD ) , and an old copy of Cubasis AV ( My Favorite ).. Having something like any of these programs that would work on the 5500+ ( 250Mhz with all the toys.. video board / tv/fm board .. it's the PLUS system.. sorry for not pointing that out before..) would be awesome!
Man, I didn't want to turn this thread into my quest.. sorry about that.. but it is cool that this is being addressed. Thanks !

[dreibel]

here's some thoughts of mine on this subject;

if you're looking at the 7xxx series, consider looking at getting a 7600 model, as this one has RCA audio line level in and out, that will give you another option for audio in.

But why not dream big? Consider looking at a 9600 Tower - these are beginning to show up dirt cheap on eBay. They have the ability to be upgraded to up to 1 gig of memory, and have 6 PCI slots for adding all sorts of cards like USB, Firewire, IDE, and video (plus the big door on the side makes it much easier to get inside and get inside its guts. There's also the earlier 9500, but these are a real bear to open and get inside without spilling blood

Also a budget consideration - Mac clones like the Power Computing PowerTower Pro or the UMAX S900. These are based around the 9500/9600 with the six slots and up to 1 gig of memory capability, and are now going for peanuts. I have a UMAX J700 (an S900 with four slots and a desktop case) with over 500 MB of RAM, a couple of hard drives and a G4 daughtercard, and I get great results running Cubase VST/32 5.1 on it.

Look for as much RAM as possible - thankfully, the 168-pin DIMMs have been dropping steadily in price, you can get 128 MB DIMMs for around $25 US.

A modem/printer port MIDI unit is a great way to go - a few weeks ago I picked up an Opcode Studio 64 X for $50 CDN. And Gibson still maintains an Opcode web site for downloading the 2.3.8 drivers you'll need.

One other thing about PCI Power Macs - a cool aspect about these is that it's possible to stuff a faster processor into these via a duaghtercard upgrade. Sonnet , Powerlogix and XLR8 all make some cool cards for turning older Macs into fire-breathing funny Macs . One to look out for are XLR8's daughtercards that can take ZIF-style upgrades, which make them really good should you find someone selling a ZIF from a beige or B&W G3 or from a Yikes! G4.

And one other research site - Low End Mac is an excellent repository of info for all things old Mac, and even offers newsletters for users of particular models.

[dr. schoft]

Well well. Very nice info
Its been a while im sorry about that, but its very kool you guys have kept this topic alive. ive been out of loop of researching and im still kindof a newbie The fact is that my computer isnt ready yet unfortunately but in the meantime this is how far i am right now.

-its the 7300/200 incl 17" applevision running OS9.1 i bought for 150 euros somewhere in march i believe
-i bought 2 128 MB RAM and have 312 MB now
- i found a AMIII card for 120 euros
- im gonna try and let logicfun do the job, the free software that logic put on the site to download (its ready for like 8 tracks, depending on the memory bien sur :-)
- a midimacman for 40euros.
- an alesis SR16 drummachine (had that before actually)
- the next step now is storage. im stuck now with 2GB SCSI
Ive asked before somewhere else, and i heard G3 upgrade cards cause a lot of frustration and conflicts on old world macs like the 7300.

About the CDWriter. I have an old HP cdwriter in a pc at my parents house, anyone think i can use it? I still better use it externally since the writer is kindof as old as the 7300?

BTW does anyone msn messenger on 9.1? i got the same conflict every time i want to log in. is the version for 9.1 really out of service? I cant upgrade to Mac OS 9.2.2 without an faster processor, right?


allright

schol !

This post has been edited by dr. schoft: Mon 10 Nov 2003, 17:20

[lee_story]

I've seen very few G3 upgrade problems on "old world" Macs...and the 7300 is being used by Other World Computing (OWC) as their benchmark machine for G3 and G4 upgrades up to 800MHz.

I'm using an old PowerMac 8500 for my music machine, upgraded with a Sonnet 450MHz G4 processor card (cost $175 US on ebay), a simple 2-port USB card and M-Audio MIDI interface, Griffin iMic, internal 9G and 2G SCSI disks, and an external 18G SCSI disk (which I may move inboard eventually). I'm running OSX 10.2.4, installed with the Sonnet Technologies helper PCI X Install (tried XPostFacto, and it also works fine), and the PowerLogix Cache Control X to turn on the L2 cache. (Turning it on is essential; OWC's L2CacheControl by R.Rempel also works.)

It's absolutely rock solid. I'm using Metro6, Peak DV, SparkME, and Finale 2003 in Classic mode (have ordered 2004). I plan to upgrade my old and much-loved MOTU Performer 6 to DP4 soon.

As far as I can see, there's very little reason not to use an "Old World" Mac unless you need a greater-than-800MHz processor or greater-than-50M bus speed. --L

[dr. schoft]

Well Lee thats very cool to hear. especially if one, like you did, goes ebay for those upgrades, it should be cheap as hell to get a G4 machine that way. so your upgrading adventure never came with any exaggerated frustration at all?
Im really surprised that youre not having such a hard time with OSX, as many say running OSX on an old world mac is a pain and only for real computer hobbyists (which you might be of course). So then i shouldnt be to afraid to put an USB and of firewire card in my machine either then. which brands of cards do you recommend? does annyone happen to use a firewire pci card on an old mac to hook up a firewire tray with an IDE drive for just some storage? how about a dvd drive?

Kevin