Help! My Movie Music Is Screwed Up!!!!, disaster....fear and loathing... Options

[tokyoroland]

I finished editing my music into my brother's movie in imovie ( the latest one ) on OSX. I burned it to dvd-r and when I play it, the sound totally screws up halfway through the movie!!! This is odd because it works just fine imovie and the qucktime movie is fine, too.

I thought it was a faulty dvd-r, but I tried another one and it did the exact same thing! help! possible errors:

1) the sound was mastered wrong. ( the girl who transferred it to cd from minidisc mastered it at a low level, so I turned up the volume ( normalized it) in Spark.

2) Maybe I didn't format the dvd-r. Do I need to?

It isn't my computer because it messes up on my external dvd player as well as when I put it in my computer and play it.

PLEASE HELP! I don't know what to do, and I really want to finish this film. Should I go back to the music and NOT normalize it??

ANY suggestions will help...

- Jeffro

[Levon River]

Can you be a little more specific than "totally screws up"? How it screws up may have everything to do with narrowing down what the problem is. Normalizing the file shouldn't be the problem, especially if, as you say, it plays fine in iMovie and Quicktime. And you don't want to waste time chasing red herrings.

Have you loaded the normalized file into any other audio application and checked it there? What's the rate you used for saving it? 44.1? 48? Do you know?

Any additional information you can give on the exact nature of what happens to the sound after it's written to DVD will go a long way toward people being able to help you debug it.

[tokyoroland]

The music was recorded at 48. When I say the sound screw up, I mean that it sort of just goes off tune and back. Its hard to explain. Everything just starts to screw up in the piano's voice, like a cat is sitting on it. The sound makes a loud "pop" sound once in a while also.

no, I have not tried to load this file into any other audio appls. because I don't have any. Do you know of any free ones?

This is so strange. Something must of messed up while burning. could it be because I have a " motion " menu?? There is a little bit of sound at the menu, and the little movie icon is at the very end of the movie, so it is black, and no images show up before you click to play it ( in idvd2 )

Could Logic fix this? I am going to get it in a few weeks, but I really don't want to wait that long.

thanks for the advice, Levon.


- Jeffro

[Synthetic]

sounds to me like something was happening during the DVD making process that is causing your problems... maybe you should look at the settings and prefs closely for your app that you use to burn the DVD. I would also make sure your HD is defragged and running smoothly. I really don't think it should be any problem with the actual audio itself if it plays fine in quicktime.

[Levon River]

The music was recorded at 48.

Go here:

http://www.spies.com/~franke/SoundApp/

Get and install SoundApp and use its conversion settings to convert your normalized file to 44.1/16 bit. (SoundApp isn't OS X-ified yet but runs fine in Classic.) Then play it all the way through in SoundApp, Quicktime, and iMovie. Then take another run at it and see what happens.

[tokyoroland]

Levon-

I am confused about this program... How do I convert my audio? It is only edited in imovie and the exported quicktime file.

When I clicked " convert " on imovie, nothing happened. When I tried the same thing on the quicktime movie file, it said "error"

Should I convrt the whole cd and re-edit the movie all over?

Please help me figure out how to use this program. I appreciate it.

- jeffrr4o

[tokyoroland]

!!!

I think I may have just found out the problem. I went into Spark and I realized that my music is 41, not 48. But in imovie, it says that it is 48. So, in Spark, I am resampling it from 41 to 48.

Is this a good move? I won't do it until I get some advice.


Levon- I guess Spark can do what soundapp can do also.... Or can it?

I can resample it at any number on the list.....should I convert it to 48? In imovie, on export, it says that it uncompressed and in 48, but m Spark, it says that its in 41


jeffro

[Levon River]

Hi, tokyoroland.

I'm somewhat at a disadvantage here because I'm not sure what formats you've had that audio in, or in which app. My suggestion about converting to 44.1 was somewhat a shot in the dark; other rates can sometimes cause problems between apps. Since you say one app is calling it 44 and another is calling it 48, that tells me that there is *something* going on with the file that ain't right. Based on that alone, I'd say that's a good trail to keep sniffing down. So here we go...

I recommended SoundApp only because it has always been *very* reliable in its conversions for me (I usually use it for batch conversions), and I haven't used Spark for conversion/resampling enough to have a useful opinion. But, sure, use Spark for downsampling. It's a professional audio program by professional audio people, and it should be fine.

You say you only have an exported QT file for the audio? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but just to get back to basics, here's the only thing I can recommend: that you back up to your *original* audio file--the one you started with, from whoever transferred/recorded it, in whatever format it's in. Load it into Spark, normalize it, and save it, all by itself, as a 44.1 AIFF file (renaming it to whatever degree necessary--maybe just an .aif extension?--not to overwrite your original file). *All* the apps that are going to be involved should then recogize that as a 44.1 AIFF file. And at that point, you should be on safe, solid, cross-app, media-compliant firm ground.

Only then (if I were you--and I realize I'm not ) would I pull the new, clean, normalized, 44.1 AIFF audio file into iMovie (*first* clearing out the iffy audio you had in there!), and commence editing.

Theoretically, that ought to work with everything across the boards. If that doesn't work, you're out of my league at that point. Good luck with it! I know how frustrating it can be.

[tokyoroland]

Levon, or anyone else:

Perhaps this info may help. The original file was indeed recorded at 41 and as an AIFF file. Should it be saved as an SD 11 or WAV file? Will this help? Also, it was saved at 16 bit. Would it be better to change it to 8, 24, or 32(floats) bit???

I wonder if any of these factors could have affected the sound to mess up when I put it in imovie, and maybe a dvd cannot recognize Aiff, or what bit??

Remember that in imovie it recognizes my 41 Hz as 48 Hz.


I will be awaiting anyone's reply

- jeffro

p.s. would it help to convert my music to mp3 in itunes? ( the whole cd, then edit )? I am doing it now just as an option...

[Levon River]

Remember that in imovie it recognizes my 41 Hz as 48 Hz.

Is that *after* you normalized it? If so, did you save the normalized file as 48 Hz? If not, there is something wrong with the file. Period. Twice now I've given you exact step-by-step things to do to start narrowing down the problem, and so far I can't see that you've actually done even one of them. Instead, each time you post there is some new wrinkle, and some other piece of vital information omitted that requires more questions. When you've done every single step I've already laid out in detail, get back to me, or maybe somebody else here can help you.

p.s. would it help to convert my music to mp3 in itunes?

That can only degrade the audio.

( the whole cd, then edit )?

CD? Now there's a "whole cd" of "music". I no longer have any idea at all what you're talking about. Good luck.

[filarion]

Spark shows a big red "resampling" sign if you play back an 48 khz file on a 44.1 khz system. Logic automatically resamples on the fly since 5.2 too I believe. (something that was very annoying for me in a past movie project as well).

Basically, samplerate conversion should be done by your DVD authoring tool. Nothing you really need to worry about unless you're working with old Avids or something like that.

I think one part of your problem is the whole "normalizing" thing without having headroom. Really sucks, but if you've got some continuous clipping in that file then it might screw up the sound. So.. normalize to -12 db and -then- try it. Digital audio is unforgiving, but 12 db headroom allows for a bit of freedom, although I'd prefer 20db. dunno how noisy your source is.

[tokyoroland]

ok... my cd is all one track. dont ask me, I didnt do it...

and the sound is low at the highed level... if I lower it, I wont be able to hear it at all!!!

[Levon River]

ok... my cd is all one track. dont ask me, I didnt do it...

"It was like that when I got here!"

I think, tokyoroland, that just means that your cd was recorded in "Disk at Once" mode. That shouldn't be a problem.

I urge you to start thinking with your audio as a file, not as a cd. That it happens to have come to you on cd media isn't the important issue for what you are trying to do; there is still an audio file there, and that is what you need to be thinking in terms of in order to edit it into your movie. Yes, as has been pointed out in this thread, some programs automatically do resampling, others don't, others handle it better than others... I personally don't think you need that complication added to what you are already up to your eyeballs in right now.

So here are my simple, step-by-step recommendations for you to eliminate as many potential problems as possible, and it's absolutely the best I can do:

1. Get your audio file off of the CD and onto your hard drive using any of *many* freeware and shareware programs that will rip that audio file off of the CD. Make certain that you set the settings to save the audio file as a 16 bit, 44.1 AIFF file. Let's say you name it "Piano.aif"

2. Use Spark, Peak, Cacaphony, or any app of your choosing to open "Piano.aif" and increase the levels to your liking, or just normalize the entire file (and maybe even add a little reverb or eq or compression if you're feeling adventurous--or not!). Then, when you're happy with it, save "Piano.aif" back to your hard drive, making sure you're saving it as a 16 bit, 44.1 AIFF file. (Save it under a different name, like "Piano-FIXED.aif," or save it with the "Piano.aif" name, overwriting the file on your hard drive, since you have the orginal still on CD.)

3. Import your fixed 16 bit, 44.1 AIFF file into your movie editing program, and edit it against the video to your heart's content.

Theoretically (famous last words ), that should eliminate any problems that might be *inherent* in the audio file itself. If your final edited, output movie *still* exhibits audio weirdnesses *after* you have taken the above steps, then it's something in the movie editing program that you would need to address with the manufacturer (or with the docs).

Please, please go through though simple steps above, though, so you know with certainty that you have done everything possible to import a clean, unquestionable audio file into your movie editing program.

And good luck with it. You'll get there.

[tokyoroland]

Levon-

that is exactly what I did in the first place. I only did all of that 48 hz crap after I originally did it all in 41.1 hz. The result is that my movie works perfect in imovie, but screw up when I export to idvd. I just read the imvoe help topic in os9 ( its probably same as in osx) about how to record cd audio in a movie. I might try this, ans sacrafice the sound being a little low, since I just can't import an AIFF file without it screwing up in quicktime format and of course when I try to burn it to cd. I am just going to get my minidisc transferred all over again, with track splits, and of course at 41.1 hz, and then edit my music in all over again.

Right now, I am exporting the movie in os9 to see if it works here...

[Levon River]

I only did all of that 48 hz crap after I originally did it all in 41.1 hz. The result is that my movie works perfect in imovie, but screw up when I export to idvd.

Okay. I didn't realize you had gone through all those steps. I think the information you just gave above about exporting from iMovie to iDVD may be narrowing this down.

Here's the only clue that came to mind when you mentioned that, which I went hunting for and found in the Final Cut Pro User's Guide:

"Note: If working with a DV sequence, convert audio CD files from 44.1 kHz to 48 or 32 kHz before importing them into your sequence. If you import CD audio files directly, you will experience audible distortions in the audio."

You had earlier said "the audio was recorded at 48." But you also said "in imovie, it says that it is 48" after saying Spark identified it as being 44.1.

It got awfully confusing.

My suggestion for converting it to 44.1 with a reliable app was based on knowing that iMovie will cheerfully import a 44.1 AIFF, and, when you choose export for Quicktime, it converts the audio down to 22, and when you choose to export to iDVD, it says it's exporting the audio at 48 (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain). Now, though, it's looking like an "undocumented feature" of iMovie might be reflected in the quote of note from the Final Cut Pro manual above: that you need to *start* with a 48 or 32 kHz file if you're working with a "DV sequence"--*not* let iMovie do the resampling on export to iDVD.

In that case you were on the right track earlier in this thread when you said you were going to resample from 44.1 to 48. If I then steered you wrong and cost you more time, I deeply apologize. But I had gotten the impression earlier (and may have been wrong) that the problem was originally with it being 48, and/or munged (because of it being seen as 44.1 in one place, 48 somewhere else). That sounded like an inherent problem with the file.

I'm still confused (or perhaps more than ever) where the problem originally entered, though, if your audio was recorded at 48 to begin with. Maybe when you originally normalized it, you might have saved it as 44.1, and then you saw 48 in iMovie only at export to iDVD? Is that where the two different kHz rates came into this? Oh, well.

I hope the note from the FCP manual helps unravel this. For my sake as much as yours.

[tokyoroland]

Be confused no more, Levon! I fixed it!!! Thank God....


All I did was export it in os9 and put it into idvd2 in osx. It was all osx's fault!!! Thanks for all the help, sorry, about the shadiness of details... My film is finally done and the dvd works great!!!

To add to that, I finally got Logic today!!


- jeff

[Levon River]

Be confused no more, Levon! I fixed it!!! Thank God....

Woo-hoo! Well done!

All I did was export it in os9 and put it into idvd2 in osx. It was all osx's fault!!!

Interesting. Goes right in line with this quote from another thread in this forum re: problems with an M-audio sound card:

"We are working with Apple to pinpoint exactly what the issue is with the degradation of audio in Jaguar. This is apparently a problem several audio vendors are experiencing. Once we can get to the bottom, we will post a fix on our site. In the meantime, I would strongly recommend using OS 10.1.5 or OS 9.2 until there is a fix."

Thanks for all the help...

You call that help?!

My film is finally done and the dvd works great!!!

That's all that counts in the end. Glad to know that the problem is in OS X, though (well, not glad at all, but you know what I mean), and that we aren't both entirely crazy. That is, of course, if you're running Jaguar. If not, then...

To add to that, I finally got Logic today!!

Woo-hoo! You're on a roll.