Logic PRO & Logic Express 7, Music Software Options

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Comments about:

Logic PRO & Logic Express 7

[arvidtp]

Distributed realtime audio processing?? holy crap!

[krur]

it's a shame... i paid >200€ this spring for Logic Pro, and now they are asking other 300€!!
just like if i had Logic Gold 5!!!!!! they are crazy, and don't have any care about loyal customers...


i use logic since 1993.. and never felt like changing platform like today.

stefano

This post has been edited by krur: Wed 29 Sep 2004, 16:59

[lepetitmartien]

Krur, you're not the only one complaining, Apple is a specialist for p…g off consumers and make them pay right away again and again. One member on the FR side of MM payed for update a month ago… he should pay AGAIN? No way!

Even for OS X you only have to pay once a year! (too much in my opinion, especially for a non standard BSD).

Great products _sell_, you don't have to stone people down for that.

[_guest_brian_]

ok let's be realistic. the upgrade is $299. i too paid $129 last spring to go to 6 (and haven't even used 6 that much) but i don't feel the price is too terribly steep.

first, distributed audio processing. this is gonna be cool (i hope). second, 3 new kick a** plugins. i've been waiting for these for a while. finally, apple/acid loop support. come on! all that for $299 and we're in here b****ing about it?

i'm just glad that apple has been working on this app and i hope they continue. now if they'd finally release sound diver and work on an os x version of waveburner pro.....

i'm really not trying to start a fight here but if someone wants to jump platform because of the upgrade price, more power to them. they'll probably run into many of the same problems almost everyone i know has in switching from mac to pc (and then back again for most of them). talk about costs!


brian

[bobdemaa]

I'm with you Brian. I hope that Apple has focused on the parts of Logic that need fixing, but all the new enhancements make it a worthy upgrade.

I fear though, that Logic Users about to get their first taste of the Apple upgrade procedures. Being a Final Cut User since version 1, I am now all too familiar with their policies and flaming hoops, but I still Love Apple all the same. What would I do without FC and Logic? Probably play a lot more Xbox. Everyone really should be thankful that the XSkey is in place. This should make upgrading about a zillion times easier. Yes, I did say Zillion...

[_guest_charles_]

OK, well I agree that it's a little unfair that people (like me) who paid $199 to go from 6 to Pro have to shell out the same upgrade price as someone upgrading from Logic 5 gold... but frankly it doesn't bother me too much because this is such an awesome upgrade! For example, if Guitar Amp is half as good as the hype generated at Namm, that's worth $300 by itself, How much is Amplitube going for these days?

Anyway, this is the case with almost any software on any platform, if you are like me and you like to be ahead of the curve and always have the newest toys, you pay a premium versus the guy who is willing to skip a revision or 2 in order to get a better deal.

I've already got mine on order, can't wait to platy with sculpture and ultrabeat! I just hope it's not as buggy as Pro 6, it took em long enogh to get it to market so hopefully that means extensive testing.

[bobdemaa]

It maybe that Apple will offer a rebate to those who fall within a certain Grace Period. They probably will not post any big announcements about it, but it's worth a phone call to apple to find out. If someone does find out maybe they could post it here?

I didn't bother with the last upgrade because I actually purchased EXS24 and EVP88 and EVOC20. I was a little sore at that time that everyone got all the plug-ins for less than I had paid for just 3, but that's the price you pay for needing it now... No regrets here.

_b.

[_guest_badtz_]

now if they'd finally release sound diver and work on an os x version of waveburner pro.....

It DOES have wavenburner pro in this version




does anyone know if the GUI changed much?

[Allan Phillips]

I just tried today and Apple will not offer a grace period for the upgrade to Logic 7. I just bought Logic Pro 6 a couple of weeks ago, Now I have to come up with another 299 to be up to date. This is sad. I have been a long time EMAGIC logic users and have used apple for years, this type of support is really unacceptable. Anyway, I talked to apple's complaint department and they said that if you make enough noise apple might do something about it, so I suggest that eveyone effected complains to apple. The number for complaints is. 1-800-767-2775, make a call, it only take a couple of minutes.

The more complaints about this the better..

This post has been edited by Allan Phillips: Wed 29 Sep 2004, 22:47

[krur]

ok, i'll go the "complain" mode..

i have just studied the Logic 7 features.. since it's more then 10 years that i'm usign Logic.. only now i see some features i was waiting for since much much time...

i knwo i'll give those 330€ to apple , +2000€ for a new machine..
and next year they'll ask for other 200€ + 200 for Tiger and who knows whatever else...

sure, one thing to complain is to put on the same level somone who updated to Logic Pro last month with someone who has Logic 5 Gold...
really incomparable...

well, let's complain a bit, then let's enjoy the dreams that only Apple can make true...

[dr.wackler]

it's a shame... i paid >200€ this spring for Logic Pro, and now they are asking other 300€!!
just like if i had Logic Gold 5!!!!!! they are crazy, and don't have any care about loyal customers...


i use logic since 1993.. and never felt like changing platform like today.

stefano

Same discussion when Logic Pro came out and especially those who just paid for Space Designer felt deceived.

Man, get used to it. That's how it works. For me this was so obvious that I did not upgrade to Pro - I didn't need it.
You did upgrade - fine, you obviously needed it and had the opportunity to work with it for several months. That's what you paid for.

Logic user since even longer than you, but adapting to the present.

[dr.wackler]

now if they'd finally release sound diver and work on an os x version of waveburner pro.....

It DOES have wavenburner pro in this version

What exactly do you mean? I think I read about all info on the Apple site and all the pdf...... no word about this.


EDIT: Ooops, you're right. It's mentioned in the feature overview

"Waveburner software creates CD masters in Redbook audio format."

This post has been edited by dr.wackler: Thu 30 Sep 2004, 01:58

[peter893]

This Waveburner news is Great!I really can't believe that there isn't more info about this on Apples site.

On a sad note, it looks like emagic is out of the picture now. They will be only supporting logic pro 6 and below.
The Emagic site is nothing now, just a support center.

Peter

[_dingo_]

On one thread a girl from Sweden said she'd been given upgrade for free because of complaining about buying Logic 6 Pro so recently.

Anyone heard about anything like this?

[_guest_Tom_]

The bottom line is you get what you pay for. I've been using emagic products since 1988 on an Atari and now a G4. I'd never switch no matter what the cost.

[bobdemaa]

On one thread a girl from Sweden said she'd been given upgrade for free because of complaining about buying Logic 6 Pro so recently.

Ummm, yeah, those damn female swedes are always getting what they want...

[bobdemaa]

it's a shame... i paid >200€ this spring for Logic Pro, and now they are asking other 300€!!
just like if i had Logic Gold 5!!!!!! they are crazy, and don't have any care about loyal customers...


i use logic since 1993.. and never felt like changing platform like today.

stefano

Same discussion when Logic Pro came out and especially those who just paid for Space Designer felt deceived.

Man, get used to it. That's how it works. For me this was so obvious that I did not upgrade to Pro - I didn't need it.
You did upgrade - fine, you obviously needed it and had the opportunity to work with it for several months. That's what you paid for.

Logic user since even longer than you, but adapting to the present.

I agree. I saw this coming, especially since I am familiar with apples upgrade procedure, being an FCP user since version 1. I held off going to pro since I had already paid for EVOC 20, EVP 88 and EXS 24. Always remember that you pay to be first, but being first doesn't always pay...

[Fields]

I've called Apple was told"tough luck", they suggested I mail a Formal Complaint.

We'll see...

here's the address:

Attn: Customer Care
Apple Computer, Inc.
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014

[lepetitmartien]

We have a petition running on the FR side, I will ask the originator to extend to you all. It'd be stupid not to have everyone in one big petition.

[Fields]

Yes, please share! I know 3 people who purchased LP6 within 30 days, and 1 guy who bought it less than 10 days before LP7 was announced.

What's the FR side?

Thanks
Fields

[swilder]

I think an important question is:

Will upgrading to the newest version of <insert your software here> bring you more business and more money, or possibly cost you business or money by not having it?

Besides the people just "Have to Have Pro Tools". Most of my clients are oblivious to what software I'm using. Let alone what version it is.

I think smaller studios can take a lesson from the big boys: Why upgrade until there's a compelling reason to make the move and spend the money?

Many many studios are still using pre HD Pro Tools (gasp!!!) and they're doing fine.

Just because the upgrade is available doesn't mean you gotta get it.

This post has been edited by swilder: Mon 4 Oct 2004, 06:47

[Didick]

Hi.

Excuse me for my english but i'm french and not very good in this language.

IMPORTANT :

I've created a petition for french logic users about the price of the update.
You can join us against this update .
This petition will be send to General Director of Apple France.
Send an email this your Surname, name, zip code and contry to
logicpetition yahoo.fr ( =@, it's just for spammers)

Thanks.

[edit typing error LPM]

This post has been edited by lepetitmartien: Sun 10 Oct 2004, 11:11

[Don Skinnie]

What bothers me is that Apple justifies the price by adding Waveburner (for me useless and I guess 80% won't ever use it), wich has NOTHING to do with Logic. Logic is a sequencer and NOTHING else. I'll bet they gonna put SoundDiver, a program that never ever had worked fine with Logic (and YES I'm an experienced longtime user) in Logic Pro 8. The software was finished for OSX, but no customers. Hey, you know what, we sell it with our next update and raise the price.
A Pro Tools update involves only benefits for the program Pro Tools, they don't ad Masterlist, or something else.

You want Waveburner? Buy Waveburner, you want Logic? Buy Logic, You want Photoshop? Buy Photoshop, NOT Illustrator!

[Barb]

Absolutely! Call Apple and tell them when and where you bought it. If it was within 3 or so months, they'll up grade you.

[lepetitmartien]

As I wrote elsewhere…

Can Apple be OFFICIAL on this. It's commercial common sense.

[_Long Time Logic User_]

DO NOT BUY LOGIC PRO 7 IF YOU WANT TO USE 3RD PARTY AU PLUGINS!

Logic Pro 7 will not "validate" Spectrasonics Plugins, NI Plugins, Waves Plugins or even Emagic's ET1. It will crash the program and then disable them so you cannot use them.

That means no Trilogy, no Stylus, no Atmosphere, no Kontakt, no Stormdrum/Percussive Adventures, no Renissance Compressor, no East West Orchestral library.

Apple has no plans to fix this. Logic Pro - my ass.

[bobdemaa]

You Unregistered moron. get a clue before spouteing your delusional rants.

Spectrasonics has already posted updates,

NI states on their website to have updates within a few days, many of their plug-ins already work as is, such as Absynth, Battery, Pro 53 and Reaktor.

Waves is also planning an update.

MHC released new versions weeks ago in preparation to this.

Arturia has already started releasing version that pass.

Celemony's Melodyne passes and was released 2 months ago.

u-he's Zebra works

Soundhacks Spectrasonics plug-ins pass.

BTW, Ableton's Live follow the same specs as Apples Logic. But I suppose you are too busy running around cuz the sky is falling. I'm sure there is a windows machine somewhere you can get your hands on...

This post has been edited by bobdemaa: Sun 10 Oct 2004, 09:01

[editbrain]

i was also informed from another post that there is an AU validation menu in Logic 7 to validate your Audio Units.

[bobdemaa]

yes there is, it happens automatically when you open Logic. The Plug-ins that do not pass are turned off. But you can open the AU Manager within logic, and turn back on plug-ins that don't pass.

Last night I tried turning on Crystal because It's an amazing synth that I really like using, and although the manager gave me warnings, I ignored them and Crystal seems to be working fine.

_b.

[_Adam Lee Music_]

APPLE AUSTRALIAS RESPONSE TO THE SAME QUESTION!

Us long term Logic users, have been hung out to dry, worldwide! I have reported Apple to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/142

How many of us were happy using Logic Platinum 6.0 on OS 9? when you updated to LP 6.2.4 the Jumbo option had gone in the buffer menu.

Guess what! LP 6.2.4 keeps coming up with buffer audio error, too slow!

Apple want you to by OSX or ,make you think you need a G5!

I instaled OSX, for free of course! and LP 6.4.2 works very well indeed!

So to Logic Pro 6 and the update bullshit, not to mention pissing off all users who paid for plug ins, to find they now come free!

Logic Pro 6 has many bugs and who do we now call for tech support??

We can't go wrong with core audio! but what about Audio Units?

I have Antares Auto Tune, thats another story in itself, I had to pay for an AU converter to make the VST version work!

Read backwards


Stuart,



The ACCC are fully aware of Apples Logic Pro update pricing structures, before I inform all professional Logic users in Australia to also vent their anger about Apple to the ACCC and I can assure you, there is a lot of us from the data base info I have in front of me!

As well as a drafted email, ready to be sent to all music publications in Australia, which will be printed!

Since I have recently paid for Logic Pro 6 at the over charged update price, a discretionary complimentary version of Logic Pro 7, would suffice!

Regards,

Adam

Adam,

Thank you for your enquiry. I appreciate that you would like to upgrade to Logic Pro 7. The upgrade is available to owners of Pro 6 or Logic Platinum/Gold 5 and 6 for the upgrade price of $499, which represents $1000 off the RRP of Logic Pro 7. There is also an upgrade available for owners of Logic Express 6, 7 and Big Box to Logic Pro 7 which is available for RRP $999 inc. GST. These the only upgrade paths available.

I hope that this helps clarify things for you.

Regards
Stuart

On 07/10/2004, at 9:12 AM, Adam Lee wrote:

Stuart,

Firstly there was never Logic Pro 5, it was called Logic Platinum 5, followed by Logic Platinum 6, then came Logic Pro 6, which I recently updated to.

I am fully aware of how much Apple are asking Logic Pro 6 users to pay for updating to Logic Pro 7!

My point is that Apple are not taking into account the serious professional user who has purchased the top end version of Logic from the start, in my case, 15 years ago with Logic 2.5.

Apple are offering the same upgrade price to users of cut down, less expensive versions of Logic Gold 5/6 & Logic Platinum 5/6, do not insult my intelligence, there is no discount of $1000 for a Logic Pro 6 user!

Is it not ethical to offer upgrades in accordance with versions purchased, like Emagic always did! It seems like the long term professional users of Logic, are being asked to subsidize the first time buyer or basic less expensive Logic version owner!

Do you not agree?

Regards,

Adam


Hi Adam,

I am a little confused with your question. As a Logic Pro 5 or 6 user you can upgrade to Logic Pro 7 for $499 which is a discount of $1000 off the RRP.

Regards
Stuart

On 05/10/2004, at 11:39 PM, Adam Lee wrote:


Stewart,

 As an an established British music producer, and up until recent distribution changes, an endorsee of Electric Factory, I have always upgraded to the latest software version of Logic when available, recently purchasing Logic Pro 6.  

 I find the pricing structures for a first time buyer of Logic Express 7 (A$ 499) or Logic Pro 7 (A$ 1,499) are astounding!

 But what about the professional user like myself, who has used Logic for over 15 years! Is it not commonsense to offer upgrades in accordance with versions purchased!  

 You are fully aware, Logic Gold 5/6 users who have never updated to Logic Platinum 5/6, or Logic Platinum 5/6 users, who have never updated to Logic Pro 6 are offered the Logic Pro 7 update for A$ 499.  

 Apple have its upgrade pricing structure completely wrong! Are Apple seriously going to keep insulting an up to date version purchaser, each time there is an upgrade, as you have already with the introduction of Logic Pro 6 and now Logic Pro 7?

 Unless I personally receive a copy of Logic Pro 7 at a discretionary price, I will have no choice other than to report my findings about Apple to consumer affairs.

 Kind regards,

 Adam Lee
  

http://www.adamleemusic.com

[bobdemaa]

I have no sympathy for you. If logic worked so great for you in OS9, than why don't you stay there and stop crying like a baby. No one said you had to buy new software or new computers if you didn't want to. Here's what Upgrading means. Shelling out $$ for the newest technology, be it good, bad, working or not. You want to be on the bleeding edge then you have to pay for it. Do you think all that programming, manufacturing, and printing are happening for you free, just because you have such a lovely personality? Get over yourself, this has been going on in the computer industry for quite sometime now. If you don't have to keep up, then don't. It's called a choice, not an entitlement. Can you imagine if Gibson felt obligated to give you a new guitar every time they made an improvement or changed a design. It's not any different in this situation. I don't know how people can feel like they are getting screwed because they didn't get the newest versions for free. It's a bummer pal, but we all need to make money for a living, you know, it's the economy of it.

Just my 2¢.

[onelouder]

Your Gibson analogy has no bearing on this subject!

If you are a long-term Logic user, you would know, All Logic updates, since the Atari 2.5 version to PC Logic and again to Mac Logic, took into account the version you had originally purchased and the update price accordingly.

The midi side of Logic has never changed, the Audio, hence the updates has!

You are right, no one twisted my arm to upgrade, but when you are working with Logic Platinum 6.0 and the following updates to 6.4.2, takes away the Jumbo option in buffer, resulting in audio buffer too slow error messages, you have a mate with OSX and the OSX version of Logic 6.0 is also supplied, what would you do?

You would be a fool not to upgrade to OSX, even just for Core Audio and of course Logic Pro for all of the Plug ins!

You like Apple totally miss the ethics behind the update complaints worldwide.

There would be no point in updating to Logic Pro 7, as when Logic Pro 8 comes out, Apple blatantly encouraging users to bypass updates to acquire the latest version!

Just in from a long term Emagic distributor, where I was an Emagic endorsee.

The reality is that Apple will do whatever they want and will not give two hoots about anything any of us have to say.

From your perspective I can understand the frustration of facing a software vendor with their hand out every other month... not much we can do or say to make you feel any better.

We dumped Emagic because we knew that Apple had no intention of supporting the pro user base and thus we wished to disassociate ourselves completely.

[chmara]

The discussion (or diatribes) against the upgrade price are amusing. When the company was sold to Apple its stockholder owner did not care about the customer base and upgrading/support.

I have been with Apple since I dumped DOS 1 which had replaced my CPM systems. Yes I have paid more -- but never regretted it. I have received mostly great service when I approach the problem at hand wityh a mature attitude that you get what you pay for --- and the tech or salesman is NEVER paid enolugh to suffer abuse.

If you feel cheated because you did not think Apple would charge for its labor and take over of a company -- you probably have not voted too many times and suffered the rape of the US Dollar. I gladly paid sysyem prices of $5000 each for old 33 MHz machines a few years ago. Some of my early graphics porograms were in the $10,000 range in the old dollar when it was worth something.

No, I cannot afford the new price -- and know I better get my butte in gear to make enough money to get it if I want to stay ahead -- not just even with the curve.

But then, many people like Kludgey software -- as in MS Systems and Steinberg products. They work with effort -- and patience if you need tech support -- at a price almost as expensive as the software in time and effort.

Well -- I better get back to work to put together the $1500 (tax and shipping you know) I need to do the job right!

[_Guest_]

You Unregistered moron. get a clue before spouteing your delusional rants.

Spectrasonics has already posted updates,

NI states on their website to have updates within a few days, many of their plug-ins already work as is, such as Absynth, Battery, Pro 53 and Reaktor.

Waves is also planning an update.

MHC released new versions weeks ago in preparation to this.

Arturia has already started releasing version that pass.

Celemony's Melodyne passes and was released 2 months ago.

u-he's Zebra works

Soundhacks Spectrasonics plug-ins pass.

BTW, Ableton's Live follow the same specs as Apples Logic. But I suppose you are too busy running around cuz the sky is falling. I'm sure there is a windows machine somewhere you can get your hands on...

Baby? Moron? You are an asshole sir. Your ad-hominem attacks do not add anything to the conversation.

If NI has updates up before the the end of the week I will eat my words but I know that it won't happen. BTW - is Waves going to update V4.x plugins? I am really curious. If not, then in order run my V4.x Waves in Logic Pro 7 I will be forced to upgrade to 5.x because Apple decides to pull a bunch of bullshit.

Time and Money - Apple keeps costing me both. Apple has made "failure an option".

Cheers...

[bobdemaa]

This list is one of the most negative forums I have seen. It's too bad really, and I think this is the first time I've ever been called an asshole in a public forum. Talk about being a cry baby?!?

First of all, figure out how to register, it's really easy to say things like that as an anonymous guest.

And guess what? I still don't feel sorry for you.

But, just FYI. The upgrade from Waves version 4 to version 5 should be free for you, they were for me. And waves released it's AU Waveshell beta today.

So wipe your tears away little guy, the big bad mean corporations aren't all so bad...

[_Guest_]

So wipe your tears away little guy, the big bad mean corporations aren't all so bad...

Sanctimonius A.S.S. I don't waste my time on these boards - I am too busy working. Looks like you have a lot of extra time to kill.

Two things piss me off:

1) When I am treated unjustly.
2) When someone costs me money.

I don't let these things drop until they are corrected. I always come out on top, one way or the other. My suggestion to Apple - be careful how you treat long-time Logic users, we are not to be trifled with.

[dr.wackler]

This list is one of the most negative forums I have seen. It's too bad really, and I think this is the first time I've ever been called an asshole in a public forum.

You call someone a moron and then whine about being called an asshole in response?

[arvidtp]

As the first poster on this topic, however unrelated, I feel I have the right to say - Chill out guys! - My goodness! This is macmusic.org, not anger management anonymous! haha.

Personally I am content to stick with Logic Pro 6 for a while. I will upgrade when I can get sample-accurate audio editing in the arrange, AU effects written to disk without bouncing and autosave, or some of those features. Logic Pro 8 maybe - hopefully? Otherwise, I'm cool with what I got.

[_Martin McCollom_]

British schoolteacher. Music Department recently (August 2004) changed from PC and, to tide us over until the new Music suite is ready in January, purchased 13 G4 laptops with a mix of of Logic Pro 6 and Logic Express. 20 iMacs still to be purchased. Logic 6 has now ceased to be so new computers kave to go to Logic 7. WHY? We certainly were not told at time of purchase that we would have to run two completely different version of Logic within the Department. NOT a happy bunny!

[careyjames]

I bought full logic 6 Pro 999.00 only 6 days before logic 7 came out.
apple said too bad! we can't help you...
that is no way to treat loyal customers.
is this a sign that apple is becoming a cold corporate company????

[dr.wackler]

I bought full logic 6 Pro 999.00 only 6 days before logic 7 came out.
apple said too bad! we can't help you...
that is no way to treat loyal customers.
is this a sign that apple is becoming a cold corporate company????

1. What exactly makes someone who bought a product just a few days ago a "loyal customer" (as compared to people who have been upgrading for more than 10 years now for example)?

2. Re Apple becoming a "cold corporate company": GOOD MORNING!

[djlokey]

Hi people

I agree that update is not fair to long term users. Ive paid for two updates. 5 to 6, and upgrade A (6 to 6 Pro). This will be my third udate purchase to go to 7 pro.
I also bought Sound Diver and WB Pro. I was never able to run WB cause i have a G5. It only runs in OS 9. What a waste of money! They wont do anything for me. This is garbage! I would like to report this robbery, but am unsure who to contact. I really feel this is a crime. All this "get over it" stuff is BS. If we let them get away with this, they will do it again and again. So..... who do i contact, can we american user's form a petetion? Has one already been formed? Im in NY and if a local buisness screwed me i'd contact the Better Buisness Bureau. Who do i contact in this situation?

Thanks
Mike

[bobdemaa]

I think the real problem here is the transition form Emagic to Apple. Apple doesn't have to support applications and promises made by the former owner of the products. Waveburner, Soundiver and Logic 6 were all Emagic products. I don't see what anyone can do about it except that next time around when you hear in the news that a big company is purchasing another big company, be very careful and be aware of seemingly Great deals that pop up during the transition.

Perhaps a letter to your congressman and local representative would be a good start. Ask them to hold major companies accountable for products and services currently held by the corporation they are absorbing.

I recently Yamaha purchased Cubase. I also recently purchased cubase, not in the same way of course, but now I have to keep an eye out for changes that will most assuredly happen in the next year or so.

in an ideal world, none of us would lose any money, and the insane amount of upgrading we do to play with the new programming would be free, but it's definitely not an ideal world. I'm sorry for anyones loss of $$. At the very least though, you still purchased a useable and excellent application. (just looking on the bright side)

B.