Recording Guitar... Questions About Preamps Etc... Options

[Righteous Bullet]

ok i know its a good idea to use a preamp for recording direct with guitar. this is a dumb question but im wondering if you should use it with a mic too. The reason i ask is because i am (for the time being) micing my amp sending that into my mixer and then mixer hooks to the pc, and im using free software just so i can record a little and get my ideas down since i dont have a good setup yet. Anyway when i record my amp with my guitar distorted it can often sound pretty crappy and im not sure why, and i think there are preamps in my mixer anyway... is this something i should fix with the sofware? like use a compressor or something? or what?

[dten]

Perhaps the quality or placement of your mic is a factor? What mic are you using?
How are you hooking the mixer into the PC -- what soundcard are you using?

[Righteous Bullet]

sorry i just realized how dumb all the stuff i was saying about preamps was, just ignore that. the thing is that i can record the guitar on clean and it sounds alright and bass sounds fine too when i mic amp but the distortion sounds really rough and harsh alot of the time. i hook the mixer to the pc with an rca plug i think, its a cheap cord that goes from tape out to the line in of my comp, i know thats not a very good cord but it works alright for most things (as i said this is temporary) my mic is a seinheisser made for micing amps, cant remember the model off tthe top of my head it was a little over a hundred $ US. ill fuck around with placement and my mixer settings to see if theres a problem there. also do you find that you get better sound when you use a decent direct box, like a SansAmp, than you do with micing? or does it all depend?

This post has been edited by Righteous Bullet: Wed 9 Jun 2004, 16:54

[dten]

If you're not particularly attached to the sound of your amp (or you can't ever manage to record it to your satisfaction), direct recording and software amps might be the way to go. That way you just record your guitar performance and you can mess around with the tone and effects later. It's also easier on the neighbors.

However some people prefer the sound of their hardware amps & speakers. And if you want to replicate your software tone in a live gig -- it's just not the same to play guitar through a laptop vs. through a real amp Although I have seen people play through Line6 PODs and a PA in small settings.

Dude - i have to agree with dten. If u want the absolute best sound when recording ur guitar, spend like $300 and get a Line 6 POD. The tune modeling in the POD will blow you away I'm sure!!!! If you want a Marshal Stach - you just bring it up and -boom!- your jammin'!! This will definately get rid of any distortio problems you are having when you record. Of course, you also might be sure that you're not peaking out when you are recording. If you're cranking and your signal is too hot going into the puter, there is nothing that wil help. But really check into the POD. Even check out the clips on the LIne 6 site, as they were all done through a POD

[Shredhed]

There's no real good vs. bad argument when it comes to preamp-to-board vs. real mic/cabinet.

The reason you'd want to use a preamp direct to the mixing board is to rid yourself of both the hassles and huge number of variables involved with close micing guitar cabinets (not to mention the sheer volume often required to get a decent tone).

Those hassles and variables, though, are often where "magic" happens. Close-back vs. open-back cabinet, 12" vs. 15" speaker, speaker manufacturer, mic type, mic manufacturer, mic position etc. All of these things can massively change your tone (good or bad) by just messing with them a tiny bit.

The more money you have, the easier it becomes to fake all those variables with something like (if you're independently wealthy) a real Soldano head and Palmer speaker emulator. Yet even rocket science boxes like the Roland VG-88 don't *quite* give you the same feeling of "reality" as a mic shoved in front of a speaker.

Personally, since I live in a townhome and have one of those "wife" things, I don't have luxury of cranking it, so I use a Rocktron VooDu Valve, which has a real tube pre section and a kick-ass but relatively simple-to-configure cabinet modeling feature. It eliminates all of the hassles and gives me 50% the flexibility of a real mic/cab setup. Not a bad tradeoff.

IMO the POD is a *killer* box for the price, but I personally find its tone a little too generic for my tastes. Pro: easy to get fantastic sound out of it, Con: not so easy to get a distinctive tone out of it. One thing the POD won't do (dten, StratMan, I may be wrong?) is good speaker emulation - at least the older POD I once used. The POD doesn't allow you to get that real KACHUNK sound that a real speaker cabinet makes when it's being severely punished by high volume. Makes a huge difference in a mix sometimes, really helps define the guitar if you're riffing about in the lower registers, regardless of if you're playing death metal or country.

If you've got the computing horsepower required, have a look at the Native Instruments "Guitar Rig", it looks f'ing awesome.

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.php?guitarrig_us

Oh, and regardless of which method you choose (hell, do both), cables can make a VAST difference in the quality of sound that gets recorded, so pay the extra for good quality patch cords...

Bla bla bla. Anyway, just my $0.02 - evaluate as many things as you can and rely on your own ears.

[Righteous Bullet]

i been looking at the SansAmp Classic, that looks like it be really good for direct record and as just a pedal. anyone got anything to say about it?

[aptmunich]

Well i have the pod version 2.0 and it is very very cool...

Plus you can pick it up on ebay with a floorboard for quite decent prices now that pod xt is out!

Beware however of cheap imitations, i think sansamp is a decent device, however a friend of mine got a zoom 707 (in think...) and whilst it had one or 2 good sounds, that was it....

Head over to a guitar store a give a few a try...

With music equipment, nothing beats hands-on experience imo...

[Righteous Bullet]

very true, gotta try things out for yourself to really get a good idea.

[fingers]

i been looking at the SansAmp Classic, that looks like it be really good for direct record and as just a pedal. anyone got anything to say about it?

I have an original sans amp - should be the same as a classic

I love it - great for that ac/dc marshall sound, fender and american hi gain tones, good for bass - you can hear the guitar if you know what i mean - play loud and it starts distorting - quieter and it gets a little cleaner.

I haven't tried the pods tho - check em out in a shop - but try and play the sans amp through a mixer or a very clean amp - works better for me just straight in a mixer - no good for stage use IMHO - others may disagree - but the dip switches are pretty fiddly..

Hope this helps

MacIDOL.com

If i may i'd like to reccomend the POD 2.0. I use Line 6 equipment for goth live shows and for recording. I have a Vetta that I use onstage and love it, and I have a POD rack for home recording and as a backup in case anything should happen to the Vetta. Yeh, the POD is really that good. I have no fears about running straight inot it and into the board for live performance. I would probably do that more oftem in I waasn't concerned about the quality of our monitor system - (lol)

Check it out though - I think you'll be surprised!
stratman

[Panopticon]

Well, I've been around all the modeling stuff (A LOT...I've used everything from POD XT to Amplitube to Amp Farm, and everything in between). In my opinion, they're all interesting tools, but not suitable for getting really good guitar tone. They make o.k. tone. Right now, I'd say the best one is Rock Amp Legends, but no matter what I've used, all the modelers sound great in the mids and highs, but totally lose it below 250Hz. Obviously, MOST of a guitar's tone is above that mark, but the part that's below it is crucial if you want truly pro sounding tracks. Using equipment that can keep the bottom end tight, however, is not cheap; and budget IS a big concern for most of us.

And it depends on what kind of music and guitar tone you're looking for. But if you ever plan on getting, say, great sounding drop D palm mutes and chugging riffs, the modelers won't come close to a real Marshall or Mesa stack miked up. But they also cost SO much less...

Ok, all you POD and Amplitube guys, feel free to flame away...

[Righteous Bullet]

i was just wondering, i could record direct and use like a distortion pedal in between the guitar and mixer/interface and it would work the same way right? i know its alot more limited but just wanna make sure it works right.

[Panopticon]

Yes, a pedal will work going direct. Also, some pedals have an incredible amount of level to contribute...

[fingers]

Well, I've been around all the modeling stuff (A LOT...I've used everything from POD XT to Amplitube to Amp Farm, and everything in between).

Hi Panopticon

Have you tried the Sans Amp? and if so I wondered what uou thought of it compared to the Pod et al.

Thanks

Rich

peace

MacIDOL.com

[Panopticon]

Yeah, the Sans Amp has been around forever. I would say it's not quite as flexible as, say, the POD XT, but the POD is really the worst offender on losing the bottom end. I'd prefer the XT over the Sans Amp, though, because I don't think I'd really use either unit for recording guitar (you have to keep in mind that I have a Triple Rec on top of a 1960).

If you want to try out a POD you should just pick one up at Guitar Center, use it for a few weeks, and see if you like it. They have a good return policy