Simple Set Up?, Own ibook800+microkorg... what software? Options

[rosiedog]

I presently own the ibook G3 800Mhz with 640 ram. I am about to buy the korg microkorg which is a mini digital/anologue synth with midi capabilities.
I will eventually be upgrading to either an Imac or a powerbook sometime in the next 8 months.
I am mostly interested in making experimental electronica, ambient, future lounge, jazzy beats, drum and bass, trance, ect, ect...
I basically want to start with the bare minimum for a desk top computer based music studio. I would like to star out with one software solution for my needs. I would like to buy a software package that can make drums, effects, samples, layers?, and sequencing. Is Reason 2.5 my best bet for getting started.
I also want the program to be able to run on my current G3 ibook, and on my next upgrade which will be a G4.
I know Trent Reznors made his first NIN album with an anologue keyboard synth, and an old Mac.
I want to see what I can do with the most basic set up for electronica type music.
Any advice and help is extremely appreciated.
Thanks.
-Jason

[rickenbacker]

Reason 2.5 will do everything you seem to want. You can't record live audio, but everything else is grist to its mill. Spend a good while getting to know it and you'll get a LOT more out of it - Propellerheads (Reason's developers) have a really good series of free articles on their website showing how best to use the various modules in Reason.

If you get Reason, also consider a couple of extra sample CDs - AMG have a really good range, all in REX format for instant time-stretching action. Check www.samples4.com.

[Synthetic]

You might want to look into something more like Logic's Big Box rather than Reason. Reason is really cool app for all that it does but unless you get another app of some type to record your Korg then you will never be able to use its audio outs and it would be merely a midi controller.

Reason to me is another sound tool to add to my compositions since I want to add things from external audio sources as well. If you don't care about using the sound of the Korg and don't think you will ever record vocals or anything to add to your music then Reason is a great do it all app.

The alternative is to get Reason and then get one of the cheap audio apps that allows you to record incoming audio from either the mic in or better yet... and audio interface and save the files as aiff to pull into one of Reason's samplers for use. It can be done but Logic would make this all a little more convenient and maybe more flexible too. That's my 2¢

[rosiedog]

So if I want to use my minikorg to play live over pre-made tracks, or to just record bass lines over pre-recorded tracks and layers.....reason would not be good for that? Logic's big box would make that much more simpler huh?
But then Logic's bigbox and reason together could be quite a little powerful set up for what I wanna do then right?

Also let me get this straight... I can play live with pre-recorded tracks on the bigbox with my minikorg and vocoder, right? And the bigbox can record it all and then I can use it to burn it onto a CD? Also can the bigbox make its own synth leads, bass lines, do layers and make drums? Does it have looping, sampler and effects capabilities?

And let me get this straight too: Can I use the minikorg to pre-record bass lines into reason? just not live? or will it jst be stand alone? And can reason be used to burn complete tracks onto a cd?

thanks for the previous advice and thanks for any additional help in clearing things up for me. Much appreciated,
-Jason

[xingu]

Big Box/Reason owner here. Yeah, it's a powerful combination, which I hardly take advantage of at all (but that's another story of which I'll spare you the boring details... )
Reason isn't just "not good" for playing live or recording audio over pre-recorded stuff - it just plain won't do it. No audio recording with Reason. Period. So Logic doesn't just make it simpler - it simply is capable of recording both audio and MIDI, while Reason is MIDI only.

Not sure exactly what you mean by pre-recorded tracks, but yes - if you have an existing piece of music, you can layer your minikorg and vocorder over it in Logic. There's no specific CD burning capability in Logic, but what you do is bounce the recording to create an mp3/aiff what have you and then burn to CD using another program (e.g. iTunes, Toast, etc.).

The Big Box comes with the es1 synth, the evp73 Rhodes and the exsp24 sampler player w/Xtreme Analog sample CD. So synth leads, no problem. Technically, the exsp24 can't create samples, but I think there may be a work-around for creating exs instruments... i'm not super keen on this stuff because most of my work is straight audio and the MIDI stuff I do I've just handled in Reason. Looping is certainly in the nature of any DAW and the version of Logic that comes with the Big Box (Logic Audio) has a number of built-in effects/plug-ins that cover most of the basics. (There are a lot more choices with Logic Gold and Platinum, but you can see if Audio meets your needs here.) Personally, I've been pretty satisfied between the native Logic plugs and the Apple Audio Units (especially since Quicktime 6.4, which brought on a multiband compressor).

To your final query - again, NO, you can't record audio into Reason. You can use the minikorg as a MIDI controller to create a bass line using Reason synth modules - but you can't use your on-board Korg sounds in a Reason composition. And just like Logic, you can export whatever you do in Reason as an mp3/aiff/wav and then burn a CD using third party software.

Hope this clears some things up. It sounds like you might have some confusion on how MIDI works, so you may want to check out this article written by our friend here Synthetic.

And oh yeah, if you're going to be recording any audio, you'll probably want an audio interface. At the very least, it sounds like you'll need a MIDI interface. Do some searching through the Getting Started forum here for recomendations, which are a-plenty.

BTW, what OS are you/will you be running?

[Synthetic]

yep... I agree with xingu totally... Reason and Logic together are a awesome combo but when it comes to audio recording... Reason just can't do it... it's not the best for sequencing pre-existing audio either... Logic has some nice featires that make looping and working with samples much easier than Reason but Reason is a sweet sound arsenal

[rosiedog]

Wow! that really hepls guys. Thanks a lot for clearing these things up for me. I am a bit misunderstanding when it comes to midi, so I will read that article synthetic wrote. It looks like logic might be the best solution for me to get started making a DAW. Digital audio workstation? if i am wrong, pleas don't flame me for my newbieness lol.

I just want to make simple ambient tracks with simple beats, and bass lines and synth leads. What i mean bu layering pre-recorded tracks...i mean makind a sequence then layering another sequence on top of it, like a synth lead over a drum beat...does that make sense....remember, I am totally new to this, and I do plan on doing a lot more reading and research before I attempt to truly understand any of this.
Thanks for the help everyon!

-Jason

[rosiedog]

Also, How about getting the prtools Mbox? Is that like a high quality soundcard/midi interface in one that comes with protools?
How would comparing that to the bigbox be?
-J

[xingu]

You'll get the hang of everything eventually. DAW - you are correct. Actually both Reason and Logic will let you layer a new track over an existing one, it's just that with Reason, you'll only be able to use sounds contained within the built-in instruments (or from additional sounds you get from sample cd's or downloads - you can find some for free, more for purchase - and then load these sounds into Reason...). I'll assume by bass lines you mean synth bass lines - if so, you could do it all in Reason - it's very suited to ambient stuff. Again, if you want to play bass lines using your Minikorg or an actual bass guitar, you'd need a program that handles audio recording (e.g. Logic).

As for the Mbox, I probably wouldn't recommend it in your case. It comes with ProTools LE software The general perception is that ProTools doesn't handle MIDI as well as other apps, but I can't comment on that myself. The Mbox only has audio inputs (no MIDI) so you'd have to buy a separate MIDI interface. There's just a handful of MIDI interfaces that "qualify" as compatible with the Mbox - that's the primary limitation of ProTools software - it's generally only compatible with Digidesign hardware and Digidesign plug-ins which are often pricey. Compared with the BigBox, you won't get the extra virtual synths, so you wouldn't be able to do what you're trying to out-of-the-box, so to speak.

It kinda sounds like Reason will be best for what you're trying to accomplish (unless recording live audio is your main priority). You could always get Reason, take some time to learn it (which I still haven't done ) and add your audio capabilities later on...

[rosiedog]

Yeah. Thats sound like what I am going to do. I'll problably start out with reason, and then eventually get logic. I can always use the minikorg as a midi controller with reason, so it wouldn't be like a waste of equipment with reason. eventually when i get something like logic, I will be able to record my minikorgs audio over tracks with it. Plus by then I will have also learned how to create my own sound and play the minikorg as well as reason.

Isn't logic's Bigbox a limited time deal or something, or will it always be an available package deal?
thanks,
-J

[xingu]

The BigBox was initially supposed to be a time limited offer, but it sold so well that emagic just kept going with it. Can't say it will always be available, but I've heard of no plans to discontinue it.

[rosiedog]

Cool, looks like thats what would be good for me.

Now I have another question. I will need a midi interface to use my microkorg as a midi controller, for the sounds in Reason, right? Also, I will need an audio interface if I ever want to hook up a mic, guitar, or synth workstation, correct? Is ther any midi/audio interface combination unitls that I can get for this reason?

Also I would suspect that I would need a better soundcard then what comes installed in the ibooks, powerbooks, and imacs. Are the available midi and audio interfaces have soundacards built in? Or would I need to by a seperate USB sound card that the midi/audio interface would plug into.

I really appreciate all the friendly help and advise everyone here is offering me, thanks. Much appreciated.
-Jason

[xingu]

Yeah, you'll need a midi interface for Reason and audio for your regular gear. There are some combo units - check out m-audio, edirol, and tascam to start. You'll have to decide how many inputs you need and how much you want to spend. A USB interface should be fine, especially if you'll only be recording one or two audio tracks at a time. There's lots and lots of recommendations in this very forum (especially Getting Started and Audio/midi/dsp cards & Interfaces).

Just think of an audio interface as a soundcard and you'll be set. That's the whole purpose of the interface - getting sound into your computer.

[rosiedog]

Cool, I ll look into it. I need something I can plug my microkorg into to play its audio into logic, and something I can also use another midi controller/keyboard to use reason with. I also want it to be able to plug in a mic, a guitar, a keyboard/synth, and posiibly different sound modules through the audio ins as well. So I gues an all-in-one box would be what i want. A midi i/o for the midi controller/keyboard, and 5+ audio ins for my audio interface-(microkorg, keyboard, mic, guitar, sound modules) Do you know off hand of any combo boxes like what I am asking for? I'll go look and see what is available and what I might be able to get for my needs, and future upgrades(add-hard ware/instuments).
thanks.
-Jason

[Synthetic]

not to add any more confusion to the subject but Mbox is pretty cool. ProTools LE can do midi and does great job of it really. I made the "Galactic Thrush" track on the MacMusic CD totally using midi in ProTools LE with my Digi001 and my CS6x. The only thing about the Mbox is it lacks midi input so would need a seperate USB interface for midi. ProTools LE just lacks some of the cool midi featuies that Logic has but its no problem creating and editing midi tracks in it. Actually if you are just learning midi... it may be easier because its not so overwhelming as Logic to understand and learn. That is what I like most about ProTools. Most of its functions are pretty straight forward as the way it operates

[rosiedog]

Thanks for the advise synthetic. So that waht I was thinking about the mbox....it seems very plug-n-play. Now if I got the mbox to star out with.....could I eventually get logic and then use the mbox for audio and logic for midi? if I could do this would it be a matter of just deciding which program to record my final tracks in?

Also, if I got the Mbox, that would mean I would need to find a midi interface to plug it into right. Do you suggest any good partable midi/audio combo solutions to get if I started out with just Logic's bigbox?

Thanks,
-Jason

[Synthetic]

yep... you can use mbox with Logic... I have Digi001 and I use it with Logic for midi... but when I want to just record audio or sequence audio... I got back to PTLE.

M-audio makes a few interfaces that should serve you well and Emagic makes a few too that are nice... just depends on how many inputs and outputs you think you might want ;-)

[rosiedog]

well to star off all i want is to use reason, with my microkorg, and have another program for recording what i creat with reason and the korg.
I will need an audio interface to play the miocrokorg into the recording program, so I think the Mbox would be a good solution for that. If I want to get another keyboard for a midi controller , I can either get another midi interface for the
mbox and do it that way, or I could just buy a different midi interface and get logic then work between the two programs. Does this sound right?
-J

[rosiedog]

Haha. now I am starting to sound like a broken record skipping eternally...

I am also starting to get a little dizzy from a this semi-confusion.

option 1: Microkorg, reason, Mbox,...

....but then eventually ill need a midi interface if i want to get an extra midi keyboard to controll the sounds in reason. correct? sound good so far?

or..

option 2: microkorg, reason, logic bigbox, and a midi/audio i/o interface..

...i will be able to use a midi controller in the future with this setup right?

lol...and if I eventually add logic bigbox to option 1 it would be the same as adding mbox or protools to option 2....right?lol My final end results seem to be the same with both options. It seems that this is going to be the basic set up I will get.

okay.....so what would you suggest would be the most logical option...option 1? or option 2?

And Last of all...weather i get the mbox or not, what would everyone suggest iI get for a portable audio/midi interface? it looks like I'll need one even if I get the mbox(I will want to use a midi controller with the sound arsenal in reason). Although if I get the mbox I can wait a while before I expand to using midi with Reason.

And then I guess option 3(should probably be option 1): just start with reason and get a midi/audio interface and use the korg as a midi devise. this seems economical, but also kind of a waist of the korg. Plus i'll get the second program very soon after anyways.

sorry about the long winded post.

thanks again for your patients, and for your help and opinions everyone. I have already learned a lot from this thread alone. this whole forum is a great eduacational resource!

-Jason

This post has been edited by rosiedog: Sat 15 Nov 2003, 10:45

[rosiedog]

Hi again. lol this thread is getting old I know.
I decided that I am going to just get the mbox to start....that and the microkorg. The mbox comes with light versions of reason and live and a few other programs that I can learn the basics with.

eventually I see myself getting reason 2.5, and then after that a simple usb midi interface for a keyboard controler for reason's sounds.

and later if I'm still really into it and having fun and being productive, I'll look into logic.


Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll let you know what I end up with when the time comes.
-J


This post has been edited by rosiedog: Sat 15 Nov 2003, 12:46

[Synthetic]

hey... just remember that you don't need another midi controller.... your KORG is a midi controller itself and when you get a midi interface... you can plug the inputs and outputs of the midi into the Korg as well as the audio outputs of the Korg at same time.... this way you can use Korg to control say Reason via Midi and record midi notes and you can also use Logic or PTLE and compose a midi track by programming notes and sending them to the Korg for playback or you can actually play the Korg and record and edit the midi notes that way and then record the audio output into Logic or PTLE

sounds like you are on the right track though

[rickenbacker]

I don't think you can upgrade to Reason 2.5 from the light version included with PTLE. In fact, is Reason 2.5 even available in any form for PTLE?

Personally, I don't like the PTLE route, but that's just me. Nothing else you read about in music tech mags will work with it - all the groovy VST and AU plugs, or ReWire capable apps you like the sound of are a closed book to you, unless the companies involved produce a Pro Tools-compliant version. Which many do, but at a higher cost than the "regular" versions. PTLE on its own is cool software, don't get me wrong, but I ended up plumping for Logic because it seemed a more "open" choice for future expansion.

As for your interface, how about this one from Emagic? Info taken from the website, www.emagic.de.

Emagic Multichannel Interface A62 m
Versatile and practical - with 6 audio inputs and 2 audio outputs, MIDI I/O and USB hub, the A62 m offers mobility and quality in one compact interface. This makes it the ideal multi-purpose interface for use on the road or in your personal studio setup.

Don't confuse this with the A26 - that has no Midi. Yes, I know, why didn't they name it something completely different to avoid confusion. Anyway, maybe get the A62M and Logic Audio or Gold? That takes care of everything.

Of course, I have no idea how much money you have!

[rosiedog]

Synthetic-
So I can have audio and midi hooked up to the microkorg at the same time and simultaneously switch back and for between midi control and audio play? or do I have to unplug one connect while I use the other? Or does it automaticaaly work according whatever app I am working with?

rickencacker-
Will I have to spend an arm and a leg to make drums with protools le?
How much is the logic set up gonna save me?

Remeber, I wanna keep it real simple. Thanks

-Jason

[rosiedog]

Okay....
I am about to purchase some stuff now, and I would like to hear some opinions about what I am about to buy.

I am thinking of buying the m-audio ozne midi keyboard/mind and audio interface, along with reason 2.5. They are both bundled in a promotional package for about 400.00.
Then I would buy logic's big box bundle.
Does this sound like a good set up? Will I be able to use the audio interface of the ozone with my microkorg keyboard?

The ozone is able to plug into my ibook through the usb port. I think the ozone is also a midi/audio interface as well as its own midi controller. So does this mean I can use the ozone as a controller for reason, make tracks with reason using the ozone, and record/sequence the tracks into logic, and at the same time use the adio interface on the ozone to record synth leads and base line from the microkorg into logic? If this sounds correct,, then this is what I will purchase to get started with a simple setup.

I know I was fixed on the mbox, but for just a few more bucks, I can have reason, the ozone, and logic's bigbox.

So is this a good set up to begin with?

Thanks for any help here.
-J

[Synthetic]

yep... it should all work just as you said and it is nice that the ozone has all that capability in one unit but I haven't heard from anyone who has used one and so can't tell what kinda qualityit has or how well it performs. I would check to make sure it has drivers and works with the version of OS you are using and that would be only real obstacle. Maybe start another post asking for opinions of the Ozone to see if anyone else is or has used one yet.

[rosiedog]

Cool. I'll do that. Thanks synthetic.
-J