wondering if anyone has actually used the new PreSonus FireBox? Its been available in Europe for a month now... and just became available here in the US. I am wondering if any has tried this unit out... I am strongly considering gettting one. I would like to hear any reviews of this new interface.

any opinions?
power consumption in the feild? etc.

thanx
-- Ian

i'd like to know too!

Available one month before in Europe? for the product of a US company?

Crazy I know! when I sent an email regarding ship date of the Firebox to Presonus, here was what they said
"It's shipping only to Europe in December. It will begin shipping in the US in January."

so anyone got one yet?
-- Ian

Yes, Guitar Center, Portland Oregon, had 3 Fireboxes last week!

Yes...cool....thanx.... but does you or anyone you know actually know have any experience using them... I know I could also get one from my buddy Frank at Cascade Media in Portland OR... but I am still wondering if there are any user reviews?
since they have supposedly been out for over a month know in Europe.
anyone?

-- Ian

I'm currently testing one now. Very preliminary results:

Apparently NO software drivers required (class compliant). I just plugged it in and it worked, but only after I forced re-sync with the Audio MIDI Setup utility.

NO documentation at all (paper or PDF) came with the unit. The little software mixer has no online help either.

MIDI and SP/DIF I/O is accomplished with a multi-cable plugged into a 9-pin D connector. I wasn't expecting the SP/DIF capability; it will be a nice surprise if it works.

Much more rugged physically than the M-Audio interfaces. The graduated pots are mounted securely to a metal case.

Two Firewire ports, enabling daisy-chaining an external Firewire drive for us laptop users. Trying to do a large file copy between the external and internal drives through the Firebox caused a black screen, however.

NOTE: the published minimum specs are for an 800Mhz G4. I'm using a 667Mhz G4 Powerbook (1GB RAM, 80GB FW400 external drive), I'll be trying to find out if this is a serious limitation.

If anyone else has one, please share your experiences.

GitGeezer
thanx
for the post that is mixed news I guess...
are you in europe or the US....or elsewhere?
let us know of you successes or faliures
thanx
again
-- Ian

Greetings, Ian...

I'm in the Northwest US (north Idaho).

So far I have been successful routing audio to powered monitors. The interface seems to sync more consistently if it is plugged in to the Firewire port (I'm not using the provided external power supply) before powering up my Mac. This is contrary to 'standard practice' regarding Firewire hard drives being plugged in AFTER powering up the computer.

No further direct experience yet, but I'll be testing latency by recording guitar tracks in Live 4.1 MIDI, and SP/DIF recording, stay tuned. This will include trying to get their software mixer application to do zero-latency (or close to it) direct monitoring.

The day after my previous post I checked the Presonus web site and there was a PDF manual available:

http://www.presonus.com/pdf/fireboxManual1.0.pdf

I have yet to find instructions for zero-latency monitoring similar to the hardware method used by other interfaces. Hopefully I'll figure it out.

GitGeezer

I await your review of the box! particularly how stable it is, and whether there is noticeable input monitoring latency when using the software mixer - and if recording SPDIF analog at the same time really works. Thanks a lot!

Hey
Git cool
looking forward to more reviews
foun this in the PDF manual
kinda basic but... looks like 0 latentcy might not be possible
to quote the manual (could be windoz related)

Latency: – Sets the amount of delay time of your FIREBOX (1.5ms – 24ms). Latency
is the time it takes for the computer to process audio. Lower latency settings demand
more CPU resources. In the case of inconsistent audio, (i.e. drop outs, pops and
clicks, digital distortion, etc) we recommend that you increase this setting.


good luck
and let us all know how this thing works
thanx
again
-- Ian

that is probably talking about stuff that actually goes into the computer. Zero (or near zero) latency is only for monitoring directly through the box without going through the computer. many boxes accomplish this by just by sending analog in to the headphone out while still in analog.

The firebox, however, looks to have a digital mixer inside that is controlled by software on the computer - which should introduce at least a tiny bit of latency by definition, but hopefully only a tiny tiny bit - like in a digital mixing console, because it is dedicated hardware. In this case (for monitoring the input only of course), the audio never goes to the CPU.

Your statement from the manual, however, is absolutely true of every digital audio interface and computer - but for the audio that goes in gets processed and comes back out.

best,

Any more reviews on Firebox? Thanks.

More Firebox experience:

Recording a stereo track (POD XT Live) and monitoring through the application (Live 4.1) resulted in unacceptable latency. Using the Firebox software mixer per their instructions worked much better, just be sure you like your incoming processed sound (I did, the POD XT Live is working well so far) because that's what you are recording. As you have discovered there is an online PDF manual. Note that the latency adjustments mentioned in the manual are for PC only. Note also that the recommended system for Macs are G4 800mhz or greater. Mine is a 667mhz G4 Powerbook so I'm living on the edge.

Be careful of bumping the Firewire cable during use. The Firebox can lose sync, usually requiring a reboot.

First major glitch: recording incoming SPDIF is not working. The software mixer can play it back, but no inputs show up in software. The Mac System Preferences Sound screen does show the incoming audio on it's meter, but it is "invisible" to any audio applications I've tried. I sent an email requesting help three days ago, so far no response from Presonus. If anyone else has some ideas (I saw the reference to SPDIF earlier in this thread) please let me know.

Gitgeezer

At long last, the missing link I've found. Ever since OS X came out my search for the promised land of elegant, rock-solid, inspired music creation on the Mac took me on many adventures (and plenty of mis-adventures!). Last night that musical holy grail came into view. My eMac G4 1.25GHz/Superdrive/80GB with external LaCie PORSCHE Firewire HD, Panther 10.3.8, Logic Pro 7, and now the new and "hottest" piece of the puzzle--a Prosonus FIREBOX, made beautiful music together. Hot, sweet and sexy--a dream come true. The FIREBOX has me totally stoked!

Here's the story so far. Been using the MBox and PT LE (and will continue to do so with my TiBook/667) but I have a new eMac now with the greatest music production program ever--Logic Pro 7--and need at least four simultaneous recording inputs to flesh out my original jazz compositions. I first tried the M-Audio FW410 but gave up on the flaky drivers, cheesy controls and uneven sound. Took it back and settled for a Tascam US-122. After updating to the 3.2.3 OS X driver all was stable but I was back to only 2 channel recording and the headphone amp was really weak (the direct monitoring and insert capability are nice and I'll be keeping it for my music students to use). I was twisting in the wind. Do I go way overkill with the MOTU 828 or Traveler, the Edirol FA1010 or Prosonus FirePod? Ouch! Don't need all that much and want to spend much less. Can't I just KISS? Thanks to the FIREBOX the final answer is YES!

Got mine yesterday at Guitar Center in Buffalo for 399. Brought it home and just to be sure downloaded the latest software for it from the Prosonus Web site. It appears to be the same as on the included CD (ver. 1). BTW, the box contained the printed manual, AC adapter, MIDI/SPDIF and Firewire cables. Plugged everything in, installed the software, repaired permissions, restarted. FIREBOX recognized! Just had to set up Sound control panel and Audio/MIDI prefs to lock things together (cool blue light on FIREBOX shows that all is groovin'). Launched Logic Pro 7, changed audio interface default to the FIREBOX and got working! It just sounded beautiful.

Thankyou Prosonus, Panther and Logic for making it all happen. At long last, it's time to play!

Hi bbmozee. Thanks for your post about the fabulousness of the firebox! I have the M-Audio 410 & have been looking around for awhile for a replacement. Did you also consider the Edirol fa-66? I'm having a hard time deciding between firebox & fa-66 - (same price same features)? And no real reviews that I can find so far. Anyway, thanks again & have FUN! khvt

bbmozee

hey
great to hear such an enthusastic review!
I am evr closer to getting one... still waiting for ye olde tax return...
hope fully soon

So you are using Logic 7 ... and it is smooth with the Firebox sofar? do you ever use the CubaseLE... with it? if so how that working? well I would expect.
I would most likely be using it for in the field (live shows) recording either Just Mics (stereo pair) or mics + the PA soudboard feed. currently for DAT transfers I use Cubase So I am familiar with it, and I Use Peak for tracking and edits before going to JAM to burn... still on lod System 9 here, but also I am gonna get an ibook G4 soon as well ... so I'll be new to OSX.
can't wait for the fresh change.....my G3 enabled Mac clone is getting a bit slow these days.

keep us posted

Are all of you guys still short on mic pres? Terratec PHASE 24 FW from JD Sound $249.00 USD.
Fully Balanced I/O, 192kHz AD/DA,SPDIF i/O and MIDI I/O, and includes the optional power supply and FWcable, and functional control panel. I'm not saying you don't want mic pres, I'm just saying that if you dont need two more then this is the answer.

Just for fun...I connected my drum triggers to midi in on Phase 24, using multichannel EXS in logic audio 6.3.1 on G4 PB 867mHz to trigger samples, output 3-4 on Phase 24 to outboard effects, back in through input 1-2 and record (audio) while monitoring playback on Output 1-2 on Phase 24. Didn't notice any drag!

I will post again once I've actually measured the latency on my system.

More on the fab FIREBOX:
Smooth and in the groove with Logic 7. Will use it with GarageBand soon. Don't have experience with Cubase LE but it's included if you need it. The fit and finish of the FIREBOX is first-rate. Should prove roadworthy. It will require at least OS X 10.3.7 (I'm on 10.3.8) and a 1GHz G4 with 512MB RAM to get results like mine.
I didn't wait for the Roland FA-66 as I've found US companies usually have better drivers ('cept M-Audio?) sooner. I can't believe how solid the v.1 drivers/software are. They mentioned that a lot was already built into OS X 10.3.7 and I don't doubt it. The latency is there but not disturbing with Logic 7 and I usually monitor thru a Mackie mixer anyway. I'm not sure of a way to adjust it on the Mac. So far, the FIREBOX just rocks!

sounds cool bbmozee

but you *can* turn the latency down to like 64 in logic (audio driver preferences), right? and does it work? - if maybe not very CPU efficient. The user should be able to control the latency, it is just how much your system can handle at that setting - unless you are using an Mbox and digidesign says "You must use a giant buffer of 512 or 1024 because WE SAY SO"

If i get something I would *need* it to perform well at very low latency - similar to the internal card in a perfect world...

and you're not having the sync (or lack thereof) troubles that others report?

thanks for posting your results - both of you - it is you guys who take the plunge first and then tell the rest the good and the bad who are taking the risk thanks

a little more Firebox experience...

I got an email response from Presonus regarding the SPDIF issues but I haven't had time to try their suggestions. I had performed the setup steps correctly, but they have some specifics for Live 4.1 that I will try. I wanted to use Live for organizing the material that I'm attempting to capture from a Roland VS880 but I changed to a two track editor option to ease the system load. So far no SPDIF inputs are available. As soon as I test the Presonus suggestions I'll post the results and the instructions.

My previous comments were devoid of comments on the sound of the Firebox. I would take this as encouraging "no-news-is-good-news". The sound is transparant and uncolored, just what I was looking for.

More to come...
GG

JD sounds has a price now of $199 on the Terratec PHASE 24 FW.

I must admit that I haven't been able to make the SPDIF connection work between the FIREBOX and my MBOX. Any light shed on the SPDIF issue would be appreciated! Other than that, all is well.

FIREBOX clarification--I can get the MBOX SPDIF output into the FIREBOX but no luck getting that signal recorded into Logic 7 Pro. The other 4 inputs record beautifully. Time for PreSonus to come to the rescue!

Hmmm... what are you trying to do in connecting the Mbox to the Firebox? Is this on a single computer? I don't think either the Mbox or the Firebox work standalone, so... unless you're using 2 computers, I don't undertstand the point.

If there is indeed a point, how are you synchronizing the clocks? Could that be your issue?

-Barry

This is the same setup i would like ideally too. The Mbox manual claims that whatever goes in (seems to suggest this includes the direct signal from the analog mic pres - does anyone know for sure?) goes out the digital SPDIF all the time. The ideal would be to plug the mbox in, but not have any app in the computer use it - just power it from USB, then have it send audio via SPDIF to the firebox as it comes in the inputs, yielding an interface with 6 analog ins instead of 4. This would be awesome - Those of us without a lot of fancy hardware really cant take advantage of SPDIF inputs otherwise (For instance I have never had use for the SPDIF on my Mbox).

But I agree - how would the clocks be synced? How is this usually done between SPDIF devices? but it seems bbmozee CAN get his mbox SPDIF into the firebox - which means its prolly not a sync issue, correct? because the firebox understands the signal. he just cant get the SPDIF channels to show up in software as recordable inputs - correct?

is there fire in the box???


i am in amsterdam and the firebox is coming end this month in the shops and then its decision-time to buy my first soundcard, or as we say in holland: lets saw some wood .got a fireboxquestion, hope one of u can anwser.
exactly howmuch latency are you experiencing with the firebox. zero? or a little? how much ms.. is it better compared to the m-box? i am planning to play sax and trumpet (so analogin-and analog out thrue the box should be zero latency right?)with the softsynths and beats in cubase on the background (well digital in -analog out also zero latency right?) still got my doubts about the software-mixer of the fireboxas compared to internal dedicated hardware mixing of my other option, the edirol fa 101 (sorry for souncard comparison number 1.019.001)

thanks for your time,
mark

Details re: Mbox-FireBox SPDIF connection.
1-I'm using this to get audio digitally from my laptop into my desktop computer.
2-The Mbox is connected to a TiBook 667/DVI and the FireBox is connected to an eMac 1.25/SuperDrive. OS X 10.3.8 on both. I've settled on 44100 kHz/24 bit I/O. The Mbox is setup for Analog I/O. This works because SPDIF out mirrors the analog out!
3-The FireBox is setup with Clock Source:FIREBOX SpdifIn (in the Audio MIDI panel).
4-So far, this setup can get mics, line, instument and even iTunes or ProTools LE playback into the FireBox via SPDIF. I'm able to monitor this via headphone and main outs on the FireBox (as long as the FireBox Mixer app is set to monitor "MIX" once sync is established).
5-The problem so far is that with the Clock Source set to SpdifIn, Logic 7 doesn't see the FireBox. With the source set to Mac, the four anaog inputs behave perfectly--but now the signal from the Mbox is lost. I've sent an e-mail to PreSonus regarding this and still await their response.
6-For now the SPDIF issues are all that remain. MIDI has performed flawlessly and considering that the Mbox cost me over a hundred bucks more for just 2 channels, I'm not going to bitch. But I still want that SPDIF! I'll keep y'all posted.

wow
lotsa good info about the box here...
sorry I won't be much help... But I am glad that there is some posting going on
I do have one Idea that may help to determine if there is a fault with the SPDIF in on the FireBox here...

bbmozee
you may have already tried this?
do you have another unit to substitute for the SPDIF like a DAT or CD or DVD that will output SPDIF? that way you can send it into the FireBox and at least tell if you can get a signal.... providing that the SAME unit can also send a good siginal into the Mbox as well. well not meaing to connect or daisy chein them together just try one then the other simply to see if the firebox can get ANY digi in ... have you tried that yet?

also I know this may or may not help ...
many years ago now I had gotten (& still have) an EgoSys Waveterminal2496 , and kept having problems with it I thought it was cause of my machine met the minimun suggested but not the optimal suggested.... also the tech guys (who I emailed and spoke to by phone) did not even have a Mac in their lab to test any of the things they were telling me. Mac and windoz had a much different interface via the ASIO ... short story long: turns out the card, I struggled with for months.... getttin to work sometimes and clicking and popping others... was bad! they sent me a new replacement aferter trying hundreds of things and ...Volia! no more problems
the point is
make sure the SPDIF can or can not receive a signal from some other source first... a reliable source.
make sense?
sorry for the long winded ramblin'

hope that this may be of some use....

good luck!

-- Ian

How is the clock set up on the Mbox side?

FireBox saga continued.
First of all I must mention that I've been able to use the FireBox (with FireBox Mixer MIX buttons selected) to monitor the SPDIF signals thru the MBox ONLY via ProTools LE 6.7 (perhaps previous versions work too). The Mbox was set to Analog I/O 44.1 kHz. It seems to automatically mirror analog out SPDIF! My ancient SONY DAT SPDIF out almost made it into Logic 7 (before i lost sync when I attempted to change from 41000 to 48 kHz on the fly in Logic to match the DAT).
The saga continues...

DAT to FireBox to eMac and Peak a success! Just had to compensate for 16 bit stereo 48kHz SpdifIn clocking. Now if only Logic Pro could do the same!

Regarding my SPDIF problem...

I haven't had time to try the latest Presonus suggestions using Live to record, but my problem was that I was hearing SPDIF input through the Firebox (set to SpdifIn, 16/44100 clock matching the source) monitor output, but it was not available as recordable input to any application. I'm using a Roland VS880 as the SPDIF source. The VS880 has controls for clock speed, so I'll play with those. Glad to hear of success for bbmozee, it bodes well for the rest of us. And congrats to bbmozee on a very creative way to combine inputs from both boxes!

Gitgeezer

My experiences mirror GitGeezer's - only with Logic 7 Pro. FireBox monitors inputs fine but they are unavailable for recording. BTW thanks for the props re: MBox-FireBox SPDIF setup - but I've yet to realize 6 simultaneous inputs to record into Logic. I'm still waiting for PreSonus to respond. Otherwise, the FireBox has my full approval.

Sorry to hear about the Logic 7 problem. I am just about to switch to Logic 7, hope it begins to cooperate. One of the big advantages to the Firebox should be the fact that it is "class compliant". This means that no software drivers are required. The bad news is that problems like our SPDIF issue can't be solved with driver updates.

I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but here are the instructions from Presonus for SPDIF:



The interesting part is the activation of all inputs and outputs from the Firebox. Could it be that SPDIF is only available on 5/6? No big deal if it works. I have become intrigued with Live 4.1 just when I learned that it is a resource hog on Macs. Oh well...

GitGeezer

HI PEOPLE, I RECENTLY ASKED A Q ABOUT THE FIRBOX IN THIS THREAT BUT NO ANWSERS CAUSE YOU GUYS TO BUSY WITH SPDIF ETC. ANYWAY I CONTACTED PRESONUS ABOUT THE CPU DRAIN AND THE SOFTWAREMIXER, HERE'S THE EMAIL CORRESPONDING. HOPE THIS HELPFULL FOR MORE INFO ABOUT THE FIREBOX. (still not available in europe... ) IF U HAVE ANY INFO OR REMARKS ABOUT PRESONUS ANWSERS PLEASE ADD TO THIS THREAT, LET"S BUILD UP SOME INFO


(me)i want to use the fb to play some background blues and jazz. for this i want to letthe fb play a jazz beat and piano from cubase. so this is digital - thru the software mixer- and then analog ou, right?

presonus---That is correct.

and at the sametime play live a saxophone,trumpet and singing . so this is analog-digital (but not thru cubase but only thru the mixer right) -analag. right?

---That is correct too.

? is it all zero-latency / or so little it won't bother during live sessions and at the sametime recording it in one of amsterdams finest bars in the red light district..

---It is all zero-latency.

last question, i am using a toshiba m30 with a 1.6 centrino 512 mb, external hdd 7200 rpm, is the cpu drain the same as with the firepod? if so it is good because this comination was tested as a happy marriage.

---Yes, it should be the same or less CPU drain.

FireBox saga finale: I just discovered that the recent massive hit on my Mac OS X CPU (50-99% up from a nominal 1-30%) was due to the FireBox software. Removing the Control and Mixer apps returned things back to normal. System profile logs kept showing problems with both and clued me in. I never got a response from PreSonus from an earlier problem and now am of the opinion that the FireBox isn't quite ready for prime time on the Mac. It's a promising piece - but without SPDIF capability and the currently sloppy code I'll pass on this one for now.

End of story: Returned FireBox and ponied up for the popular and proven MOTU 828 Mk2. Life is sweet again!

Hi all, please, inform the guys at Presonus and let them know about this thread Maybe it'll help them put their act together so that the Firebox will be up to our expectancies.

If the box is good, it's a shame the software isn't up to it.

lepetitmartien
thanx! for the suggestion
I had been think about sending this link
and I just did, I sent it to:
Chad Kelly - Customer Service Manager at Presonus

hopefully they can and will address these issues

-- Ian

For bbmozee...

Which logs specifically did you discover the Firebox verbage in? I'm probably going to return mine, and I may need some supporting documentation to do it. Very unfortunate. Running the Mixer application is required, I believe, for latency-free monitoring during overdubs. But I was unable to overdub anything in Logic Express 7 due to very slow response resulting finally in a total shutdown of the interface. Probably a Firebox issue. And since there are no drivers to update, it's a hardware/firmware problem.

Git:
Check out Apple Menu>About This Mac>More Info...System Profile>Logs.
The deal-killer for me was the inability to record 6 tracks simultaneously (as advertised). Also, I had no use for Cubase LE since I have Logic Pro 7 and Pro Tools LE.
It's a shame--I really liked the powerful headphone amp and clean audio. I was able to return it and pony up for a MOTU 828 at Guitar Center, hassle-free. I'm very glad I did. The 828 has been a pleasure to set up and use--a true workhorse that has handled everything I can throw at it. Highly recommended (and a deal for the extra money because it really works!).

I was considering the firebox, aside from the fact that it is seriously backordered, this blows. Why are the requirements so high, the FW410 req. G3. I have an 867MhzG4 and no the DualG4 recomended, and plan on running Live, is there a interface that will work well in this $range.

hey
Awhile Back I did contact PreSonus
they (Rick) Said that they were looking into the problems with Logic

and I did just order one of these...
but
Now I guess I'll have to wait
they said they were still waitin for ones to comeon fromJanuary!D'OH!

hopefully
I'll get one soon
-- Ian

ArchivalAudio--where are you trying to get the 'Box from? I found my local Guitar Center was best--had one in stock when online places were saying "5 week delay" and when that first 'Box proved defective, they had another in stock when I brought it back.

It may be worth a few phone calls if you live close to some gear stores.

I bought mine from Sweetwater. So far I like it - the only annoying thing is that sometimes - okay, most of the time it doesn't sync right away. The FAQs say to go into Audio/Midi & change the sample rate to "something different" which sends a sync signal. I wish I didn't have to do that - I bought it primarily so I could plug it in right away & get to work! if anyone has a solution, please pass it on. Thanks.

Pbook 10.3.8, Tracktion

Mine sometimes does that too, with same solution (you can also change "Clock Source," not that it's any less or more of a pain).Most of the time though, if I just leave it plugged in while my 'puter is asleep, it syncs again automatically when I get back to work, so I just leave it plugged in, though that's a waste of electricity.

twits celso
hey
thanx
UnfortnatelyI live about an hour to any audioshop that wouldhave this... Portland is morelike an hour n a half away... I ordered it from Cascade Media in P'Town OR, I knowthe Owner and a Good taping buddy ofmine ,I've known for 14 years now,just started working there.... I contacted Rick at Presonus,who respondeddirect to me when questioned about why they had not gotten sipemnt of units due in january....they will be receiving them in the next week! so mine is soon to come.
Cascade media is great to do business with and have always stood behind what they sell.

if youeverwant a quick reply fromPresonus I found that Rick is the guy....
I am looking forward to gettingmy Firebox and runningit very soon!

thanx

how'severyones luvk running with cubase LE that came with it???

-- Ian

I've never even gotten around to opening the Cubase package. I use Logic Express--it works well with that, and you can change the sync rate from within Logic, which is nice.

I'm curious too--anyone use Cubase LE? Does it offer any advantages over similar programs?

So does it means that it's the mixer who's hogging the system or the box itself (= the fact that it's pluggued to the comp)

Thx in adv.

Olivier

I just got my Firebox yesterday...
so far only one mic pre seems to work... and I can not get it to be recognized in cubase..... more soon
kinda frustrated... when I did get to be able to change the driver to see the firebox...nothing happened...
more news soon

--Ian