Any chance anyone has tested the Firebox on an older G4 Powermac such as a the Quicksilver/733 ?

Performance?

Hi All.

I've just joined. I found you guys via a google of Firebox reviews. I'm currently loking at getting one myself - mainly to play my 12" 1GHZ powerbook 768MB ram as a live synth rack running Logic Pro 7.1. And if I'm really lucky (read low enough latency) I'll be able to plug in a mic and do some live vocoding using Evoc20. I've read this thread all the way from the beginning and it all seems pretty doable. Just a few questions for the group.

About the most demanding thing I do is play an EXS24 full with about a gigabyte of VSL string samples through a space designer. Logic's CPU meter looks to run about 75% when I do this. I've been using the PB without an interface and have been happy playing Logic's instruments at 128 sample buffer. Is it reasonable to think I can still work at the same buffer using the FireBox?

Can Logic address the 10 FireBox physical outputs freely from within Logic itself?

Now a few Q's about the FireBox mixer.

I downloaded the mixer SW and it appears that there are only one stereo pair from the audio program (Logic in my case) to the FireBox mixer. Is this correct or have I missed something?

Does the FireBox mixer application allow me to set up different levels of it's physical inputs to it's different physical outputs?

Is the FireBox midi working well?

It's been very hard to find real world information on the FireBox. Thanks in advance for your help.

Kind regards

you might want to turn the buffer up a notch to 256 for that on the Firebox, cause it is a little less efficient than the built-in card - but that is understandable, as the computer is sending audio out at a higher bit-rate to more channels.

Yeah - you just set the output of a track to the output(s) u want it to come out of. But there are really only 8 - the two for the headphone will mirror another set of two (usually the main outs, you cant send stuff specifucally to the headphones out and not anywhere else) and two of the remaining 8 outs are SPDIF keep in mind. But that's still 3 pairs of analog outs.

The Mixer: The switch for the stero pair just allows you to send what would normally go to outs 1&2 to any other pair - for use with software like iTunes that has no way to configure which outputs to use and therefore just always sends to outs 1&2. Logic etc accesses the other outputs directly.

Yeah - the mixer will let you set levels for the near-zero latency monitoring that happens directly in the box. It will not let you attenuate input levels, however. This is done with knobs for inputs 1&2 and inside logic or whatever software for other inputs. Plus the firebox control panel software lets you boost any input by +12dB (within the hardware).

MIDI has been working great for me on my firebox. Never had any problems with it.

I think you will like the firebox. I also like the idea of buying from a smaller company like presonus, rather than some m-audio/digidesign/avid conglomerate. best of luck.

Yeah, what he said. Particularly the last bit about PreSonus. I think the little guys try harder, simply because they don't have the marketing millions to put a glossy spin on an otherwise pretty crappy product, like some companies I could mention. Instead, they have to make a knockout product and hope that its quality wins through. The FireBox is definitely a quality product.

Thanks for the replies chaps.

I actually got to try out the M-Audio Firewire 410 and the MOTU Traveller yeaterday. Both installed very easily. I booted logic and loadeds my live synth rack song with the audio buffer set to 128 and started to play my keyboard.

Well the MOTU Traveller performed beautifully and sounded great. No clicks or popos either. With my big string sample instrument through the Space designer that I mentioned in my original post the audio meter was at about 80% - a little bit higher than with the built in audio outputs.

The 410 did not do so well. It's sound was muddy and less defined and there wsere clicks and opos all ove rthe place. Even when I upped the buffer the 256 samples there were still a few clicks.

I'm yet to try the FireBox and I know the Traveller is significantly more expensive but it certinally did perform well. I don't need all the in's & outs of course. I can only hope the FireBox performs as well.

I'll keep you posted

Regards

Anyone using the FireBox with Mac oS tiger 10.4.2 ??? I would love to hear about that

I am. And I've had a few problems. Sometimes it gets very crackly, even if recording at 44.1. I have to try changing settings back and forth in Audio/MIDI or even restarting to get rid of it. This didn't use to happen in 10.3.8.

Not sure what the deal is, but it's quite annoying at times. I have always managed to get it to go away, however--eventually.

I have been using it (brand new one) for a week and only in Final Cut, it cracks a lot...

Thats weird.

what do you guys have your buffer sizes set to? Mine works great, but again, i'm not using tiger. But I used mine with Final Cut 4.5 on a computer running Panther and it worked just fine, except FCP (like some other software) only sees one mono output for the firebox, not stereo, in the prefernces. Despite that, it played back fine and in stereo.

Hey
so anyone can you answer this?
sorry if any of these questions have been answered else where,or seem redundant.
I was recording a friend w 3 tracks and had 2 mics and one DI from a guitar.
one vocal, mic one guitar mic, and one Di guitar.
so it was very weird I got these strange digi buzzes and "devil"sounds (her words not mine) when trying to record and have the monitor selected in cubaseLe (bundled with it). I beleive these were similar sounds as tbirdwilson repported on July 10. once we turned off the monitor enable button it (mostly) recorded fine however we could not see the "actual" levels,just the wave form being written.
I am still vey new to OSX less than a year...
I have been a Mac OS 6 & 7 & 8 & 9 user for a while
and was using OS 9 for a few years....
I know we used to be abelto allocate more memory to a progam in OS 8 & 9 by using the get info command [apple]+ [I] but now in OSX there is now way to allocate the memory gain,or is there?

I alsohad this weird thing happen when I recorded Los Lobos in Albany OR
the samesortof glitchy noisesbut only in the right channel,digi noise,when I move the fire boxfromverticleto horizontal (fomin my back pack to on mu back pack) and also turned the gain down on channels 1& 2 (lower than I would have normally have my record levels set) the glitcheyness seemed to disapear???? may be?
pwer haps the hard drive in my ibook is too slow? (i think it'sonly 4500rpm,as opposed to my 7200rpm external firewire drive)
I have also notice when using the SPDIF in as the sync,I get some sort of strange digi noise too....

any ideas?


is there a better program?
is anyone using garage band withthe Firebox?
any luck?

thanx
again
you all are always so helpful!

I just wish I could select multiple outsin the mixer like NO radio buttons.
why can't I have outs 1 & 2 + the Spdif out going together,so I have two output feeds of the same mix or even alternative mixes? that would be super cool!

later
-- Ian

:edit:

Ok
I thinkI answered my own problem...
got the digi sync to work
I was used to using my EgoSys WaveTerminal 2496 which has a builtin "on the fly" sample rate converter!
the firebox does not!
so when transfering a DAT younot only need to besure that the adio midi set up is set to the correct Khz (in one case 48k) and that when using Cubase that the project is set to 16 bit 48khz...
so...
I have yet to try this but it is possibly where the problems are in weird noises...???
if Cubase is not set to 24 bit,say its project set up is only set at 16bit then the firebox which is only 24 bit woun't record right in cubase...make sense?
anyone??
I know when I had problems I was actually tryinhg to sync to the firebox
but my cubase project wasset at 16 bit...a bitstream mis match. is thsi true?
so should I assume when using the firebox I always have to have cubase set to record in 24bit,unless using the SPDIF in sysnc to a 16 bit source?

I think this is right
any input?

thanx
but I now have successfully ued my fiirebox to transfer some old 16bit 48khz DAT masters with no glitches! whoooohooooo!

thanx
-- Ian

I just finally got myself a FireBox and my my I do like this thing... Been fooling around with it for two days now using my iBook G4/800 and everything seems to be well. And the audio comes out in such a nice quality! Why did I wait for so long... This thread has been quite useful. Thank you all.

Hi guys, I am new to firebox. I would really like to know if it can direct output 5.1 when playback DVD. What software for mounting the channel? It seems can seperate out pairs of channel but not for all 3 pairs at the same time. Thanks.

Regards,
honhim

Youn can only address the FireBox direct outs from the host program if it supports that. For DVD playback across 6 channels the dvd player software has to decode the AC3 or DTS stream first (very rare) and then send each channel to the various outputs. Addressing multiple outs is easy. On the Mac OSX I know of no dvd player SW that decodes the 5.1 streams. Perhaps Windows is different....

Thanks, I have tried in window. there is signal send to each of the channels. However, i have no idea to play all the channel at the same time. The firebox mixer is restricted to output 2 channels only, any other suggestions ?

Another firebox question: this unit is advertised to have two mic-pres and two line-ins. does this mean 4 tracks of simultanious recording or two?

It should mean 6, as it also has s/pdif i/o. Haven't tried that one yet, but those four you meant surely work without any problems at all.

As it says on the PreSonus website: six inputs, 10 outputs simultaneously.

I have one. It took me a lot longer than I expected to get a feel for it. I am running Logic Exress and the Cubase SE version that comes with the Firebox on a 2 GHz Dual G5 with OSX 10.4.3. The biggest problem I have come across so far is the need for a dedicated preamp. I run pretty hot electronic field production mics (Sennheiser 416T, Sennheiser Evolution Wireless, AKG C1000S) and I have to do pretty much everything in my power to beef up the signal. The Firebox comes with a plugin preamp called the Firebox Control that gives you 12db of gain boost, but it's a pretty noisy plugin. Overall I am pretty happy with the simple functionality of the Firebox, but internal preamps would have been worth another 100 bucks. Fortunately most of my use of the Firebox will be accepting a line out to a PSC DV Promix 3 field mixer which has a notoriously hot line out.
Hope this helps a little.

Ben Campbell
High Noon Productions
www.YourNextVideo.com

The preamps in the FireBox are OK, but nothing will beat a dedicated mic preamp. Consider spending either twice the price of the FireBox on a much higher spec all-in-one interface or spend the same price of the FireBox on an external preamp. I personally use the FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp and it blows the bundled preamps away on my old MOTU 828 and the FireBox. I only use inputs 3 and 4 on my FireBox now, taking the output from the RNP. I also have a JoeMeek VC3, which again is probably a better-quality preamp than those in the FireBox.

Not that there's ANYTHING suspect about the FireBox preamps - they're perfectly decent. Can't beat a dedicated "straight wire with gain" type standalone analogue preamp, though.

Has anyone found a way to route i-tunes through the firebox's main outs?

Audio MIDI Setup will take care of that. Set Default Output to PreSonus FireBox.

I'm realizing presonus' "6 in simultaneous inputs" don't mean anything for firewire users. Line inputs are wired to their respected outs and do not travel through fire wire. This means if you already have a midi usb connector, and have no need for spif, this box is only good for two mic pre's.

I'm not entirely sure what you're driving at here, but the FireBox has four analogue inputs. Yes, only two of them have mic preamps, but there's still two spare analogue inputs round the back. If you have another mic preamp, for instance, you can run the outs of that into 3 and 4 on the FireBox. Voila - four mic lines in. Plus two digital.

What i was getting at with that last post was my inability, or lack of knowledge, to get the analogue line inputs to track seperately or at all through the firewire cable into logic. Have you done this?

Do you mean record a unique analogue signal on inputs 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the FireBox? Like, one singer, one acoustic guitar, one piano and one flute? Wouldn't selecting the respective inputs in Logic on each specific track do this for you? So you'd go the vocal track in Logic and select input 1 in that channel strip, go to the guitar track and select input 2 and so on. I believe that should work, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Thats how I do it!

so i have 2 fireboxes and i forgot my powersupply for both.,

can anybody please read me what is written on the powersupply so i can buy a
new one while i'm out of the country?

i need the info like (as much as possible)

voltage
- inside
+ outside or vice versa

that kind of stuff.
i emailed presonus but they said to look for a 16v AC adapter and i can't find one
and i know that it will work with a DC adapter.



I love my 2 FBs. they are sturdy, sound great and work fantastic with a Mac. My problem
is with the flakey firewire ports on the new iMac (isight)

I have the 2 boxes midied together over 2 macs and one is outputting into the other
so i can run Digital Performer on my main Mac and Kontakt 2 playing BIG libraries
on the othert Mac and hear it back on the DP Mac

on the AC:

Model:A41510C
AC ADAPTER
CLASS 2 TRANSFORMER
INPUT: 120VAC 60Hz 23W
OUTPUT: 16VAC 1000mA

Rickenbacker, when i highlight record on all odd numbered tracks i get input from mic input one of firebox but not from any of the line inputs. I am new to logic and haven't had much time to "dig around under the hood" so maybe i have things routed incorrectly. As you said, I'd be happy to be proven wrong because I sure would like to get the most out of this hot little box

thanks Grassbro

i was hoping that it was a 12v dc transformer

i have some help coming from Presonus.

BTW i have 2 boxes taliking to each other with SPDIF
wit no problems

digital performer one one mac triggering kontakt 2 on another
with K2 coming back into DP via SPDIF on an aux fader.

works great

just remember that outputs 7 & 8 are SPDIF
and inputs 5 & 6 are SPDIF

ron

Did i miss something - are u running them off computers with 4-pin firewire ports? Or do the firewire ports on iMac not give correct power? You know that the firebox is bus powered from any 6-pin firewire port (all the ones on macs to my knowledge have always been 6-pin - many PC laptops have 4-pin firewire), right?

best,

I've had the firebox now for about 2 weeks, I've found it to be satisfactory for my needs. I have a IMac G5 512 RAM (going to upgrade to 1 Gig), I'm using to with a midi keyboard, guitar, and vocals. Some of the things on it were a little hard to get used to at first, but once I got the hang of it, it works pretty good. Mine came with the manual gitgeezer linked to, but it really isn't clear about the use of the software mixer. This program really allows you to get rid of the latency problems, once you get all the settings right. I'm using garage band right now, wanting to move up to logic, but it works fine with garage band. vocal and guitar pre amps are nice, the guitar preamp seems to be a little quiet, but better than the us 122 I had before. the wiring harness that comes with it is really handy, has a midi in and out, so you can chain, with s/pdif and all, it has all the basic stuff to just plug it in and play. I had one problem when I first connected with the syncing, I had to call tech support but they were really quick with the answer. I'm just an amateur at this, so I don't know if you're looking for a review that comes from a pro, but thats my input

Miaba - so you want to record on tracks 1, 3 and 5, say. In Logic, each track has a channel strip, right? This is the vertical strip that appears at the bottom left-hand side of the Arrange page (the main view in Logic). Each time you select a track, this view should change to reflect the selected track. However, you can also click the Record buttons of a track using the R button on the track name itself - the numbered horizontal boxes that the wave form is associated with. If you did this, the channel strip sometimes doesn't change. One of Logic's little idyosyncracies…

Anyway, with the FireBox, input 1 and 2 are the mix inputs and inputs 3 and 4 are the line inputs. So if in any track's channel strip you select input 1 as the input, you'll be getting a signal from the FireBox's first mic preamp. If you select input 3, you'll be getting a signal from the FireBox's first line in jack.

If you want to select any input at any time (and this is true of any interface with Logic, not just the FireBox), you've got to do this from the relevant channel strip for the track you wish to record on. Recording on Audio Track 9? Click it's box so it goes light grey, head down to the channel strip and under the I/O legend, use the click+hold box to bring up a pop-up selection of all the inputs and outputs your interface offers.

In this case, you'll be offered six possibilities. 1 and 2 are the mic preamps, 3 and 4 the line ins and 5 and 6 the digital. Pick whichever one you want. Similarly, the box below contains your interface's output options - four stereo pairs with the FireBox. The Bus option in Output refers to Logic's internal mixer - you might, for instance, want to send all the drum tracks or vocal tracks to a single bus for group treatment or better overall level control.

That's all there is to it. Sincere apologies if any of this was blindingly obvious to you, but it seems to me that this is the answer you need. I just tested it myself and it worked - audio was recorded simultaneously from input 1 and input 3 in Logic.

rickenbacker- many thanks, this was just the info i've been searching for!
With a little more experimentaion I may have more answers than questions, but for now I will busy enjoying all of these new posssibilities.
To anyone else I'm happy to say for the price, compactibility, quality, and flexibility, the firebox is as hot as the name implies. Thanks again!

i'm running them off of 6 pin FW from the back of the iMac. they are at best flakey and tempermental.
so run fine as long as i don't need to add any other FW device. if i do i have to unplug the firebox and
use that cable to run the HD. at that point it's a crap shoot whether the FB will work again without resetting the FW
ports on the iMac.


Grassbro is it you that built the battery pack for the Firebox?

other than that the boxes worrk GREAT! not like that POS Mbox.

ron

yeah, I have some complaints with the Imac firewire port, I have the newest one too, and it can be tempermental with the firebox, sometimes I have to unplug and plug it back in to get it to sync with the Imac

johnnyboy, this is what i found on the apple site for
resetting the FW ports

Shut down your computer, unplug everything

Let it rest for 15 mins.

Plug the powercord back in, monitor, USB keyboard/mouse.

Start up the computer.

When full booted, plug in all external devices.

the FB plugged into a powered belkin FW hub has seemed to do the trick.
no more problems in about a week related to the iMac FW bus

Hi all!

I just bought a new firewire 800 drive for my powerbook from OWC (Mercury elite aluminum 250GB FW800/400) and now the firebox keeps dropping out of sync after starting up or waking up the machine when the external FW800 drive is on and plugged in. What pain in the arse!

Whenever the drive tries to access itself for the first time, the firebox will pop and the light will go red and the lose sync. Sometimes resetting the sample rate in AMS will fix it, but sometimes its needs to be unplugged and replugged. If the drive is switched off, nothing goes wrong. Similarly, it is only the 1st time after startup or wakeup the drive accesses or writes data that causes the firebox the drop out - before that it is always fine.

Once unplugged and replugged, the firebox will be fine until I either sleep or shut down the computer. Then its same problem all over again. I never had this problem before I got the drive.

I know that both the FW 800 and 400 ports on the powerbook are on the same bus , so i tried powering the firebox from the AC adapter - but no change. I have not yet tried different combinations of the drive and the firebox in daisy chaining, but that would be crummy because then I lose the speed of Firewire 800 for the drive, and i could have paid something like $50 less for it but maybe with the firewire ports on the powerbook being on the same bus, I am already loosing the extra FW 800 speed?? I hope not.

I'm going to try different daisychainings and also try and see if it happens in Tiger. i'm running panther for most stuff, but have tiger on my external drive [thanks to that little but devastating bug between logic 6.4 and tiger! rrrrrr].

Anyone have any suggestions?

Ok - more info about my problem above... - it seems to work fine if the drive is daisy chained through the firebox --- with FW400 all the way through.

Maybe its something about having both 400 and 800 on the same bus (because its bad also when the drive is the first the chain with FW800 connecting to the powerbook). So I lose FW800 speed. Oh well - i could have saved $30 and bought a FW 400 drive, but hey, maybe the FW800 connection will come in handy in the future, or when i use the drive to do video the university's G5s. Just glad I've gotten it all to work in some fashion.

And one less connection I have to take out of the side of my 'book whenever i pack it up.

Smart $30.00 investment... Would have only used it on beer or something... Ooops... Better be careful don't want to start the Alcohol 'Protest' again... I don't remember who it was but I have named him, "Alcohol Free Whine"... Oh no I didn't?!

King

I very nerarly pulled the trigger on the Firebox today(it's very cute), but held back on one issue, and i'm hoping someone here can advise......

Scenario:

If I route 2 channels from the F.rite green->RNC to line inputs 3 and 4 respectively, can the combo input jacks on the front of the F.box(either of them) comfortably accept an unbalanced input from my Joe Meek channel strip, or ART tube pack without overloading?
I'm quite happy with these four channels of pre, and was concerned that I wouldn't be able to route them all through the Firebox simulatneously. The guy at the store couldn't advise, and they have no return policy unless faulty. MOTU is double the cost(although it seems the more 'pro' option), and the equivalent Metric Halo is around $2500 Aus. which is a hell of a lot for a first taste. Then there's the Firepod, same price as the MOTU.

Anyway, if anybody has tried this, could you please let me know how you got on?

cheers...

I may have answered my own question after visiting the PS website and perousing the Manual...

Sounds like a NO to me.

I'm still interested in anybody's experiences though.....

cheers...

BTW, (sorry to keep feeding this thread) has anyone with a Firebox simultaneously used the Mic. ins, Line-ins and SPDIF-ins to record 6 channels at once ?

cheers...

arvidtp,
Im super bummed at your findings with the firewire800 drive and the firebox. I was hoping to use the 800 drive to write to while using the firebox hoping the 800 speed would be faster than using my enternal 100gig 5400rpm drive on my powerbook. boooo. anyway, i guess i could, like you, use the 400 when doing the musics and the 800 when using final cut. Have you gotten ay further with the drive situation or are you still at 400?
p

I'll jump in here, I eventually went and got the Firebox and have been using it with my LaCie 250g FW800 drive......and so far, so good ! (touch wood)
The Firebox is running off the bus power of the FW 400, and the Ext. drive plugged into the 800. No sync problems at all, seems to be running as it should.
I can't really say that I feel a sense of awesome bus speed or anything, it just works as I expect it to. I'm using Garage band so far, I've heard it's a CPU hog but that seems happy enough too. I haven't recorded with more than 3 mics. at once yet, I'll try at least 4 this weekend. BTW, for those that may have their own Pre's that they wish to use, I've found that I CAN run an unbalanced line into the front combo jacks. Getting very good results too.
I'm starting to think though that a G4/G5 tower in the studio would be something to head towards. By the time you un-plug and bag up your Laptop, accessories, harddrive, pre amps mics and all the cables ( and mine's mostly rack-mounted), and then set it all back up again,the 'portability' diminishes. The one cool think about my harddrive (fostex D160) system is that there was ALWAYS a mic. patched in...when inspiriation struck i merely flipped the power switch and hit the red button- there's a lot to be said for that.

Time will tell, but so far so good.....

cheers...

Pulgar,
Thanks so much for the wuick reply, that is exactly the set up i would like to do as well. the firebox in the 400 and the external drive to the 800 port. I have been looking at this from Graid to use as my external. Any other suggestions? Thanks again Pulgar for the info. i was a bit bummed when i read that arvidtp was having problems getting this to work. I use the Cubase LE that came with the Firebox and i really do enjoy using it. Its really simple and stable (wood knockings abound). We use Digital Performer in our studio and did our last record with Pro Tools HD. My little powerbook setup is for my little home set up and i use the pod xt pro to do simple guitar structures for suongs and flushing out ideas.... long winded? me? anyway, thanks!

Hi,

I am having noise issues with my new firebox, but have nothing to use as a "benchmark" to compare this noise to, except my old Roland UA-30.

I am trying to determine if my firebox noise is normal or someething wrong. I have swapped the unit at the dealer, but things still sound noisy to me. (I am using a g4 ibook 1.2ghz, os 10.4.5)

can anybody tell me..

1. how noisy is the headphone amp. If i am not monitoring anything, the noise floor comes in at 12 oclock, and gets very noisy very quickly from there.

headphone amp aside

2. if I have the headphones set to one quarter (nine oclock)) and monitor a track in cubase LE, (or listen to to inputs directly through MAx/MSP) there is noise (hiss with high pitch on top,) at a just acceptable (though still unexpected) level. Now if I turn the +12 gain on in the firebox control, this noise is unacceptably load. The noise is identical for line in (3+4) and mic in (1+2)

3. this noise records to track

4. is the +12 gain on the firebox control noisy by nature? Is the noise I am hearing in general something that is inherent in the firebox?

I used to use a roland ua-30 and had almost no noise floor under similar conditions

It seems from the various threads on the firebox there are some people who seem to get this noise and others who have not??

any advice is appreciated

turning "NAP"off helps only a little with the high pitch noise on top, not with the hiss at all. This is also the second firebox I have tried, having swapped the first at my dealer.

thanks for an informative thread, and for any advice
andrew