Seq. To Record Analog Hard, What to chose for trance... Options

[CatloveX]

Hi all,

I'am building a studio to produce trance and I need a sequencer. I am on mac.

The fact is that I want to use analog hardware gear; I have an andromeda that I will use as a controller/synth and I now I will buy some other analog hard for bass and effects, if I find something that convinces me and my pocket.

As I am using a Powerbook I thought of Logic for the perfect integration but this one seems an integrated studio with all the VA synths and drum machine, and I wonder if I need all these features as I already will have my hard gear.

Digi 002 PT LE seems another option as I am going to record audio, and the interface seems a bit less complicated and white clear (vs. brown/dark in Logic); I won't have much time to study my soft and I don't want to lose my creativity with a mouse and midi.

Get DP, not so many plugs, cover the basic for recording, audio core rivals Logic quality I imagine and still have access to midi features if needed?

Please, what would be your advice?

Thanks.

Blue

[cornutt]

Have you looked at Metro LE? It sounds like it will do what you need, and the price is right.

I have a lot of hardware synths too, including a couple of pieces of vintage: JD-800 (also serves as my master keyboard), Juno-106, Matrix-6 and 1000, EML 101 and modular (via a JKJ CV-5 MIDI-to-CV converter), etc. I use the full-blown version of Metro (main differece is the number of tracks allowed). I record both MIDI and audio; I just finished a song that needed 17 MIDI tracks and six audio tracks including the mixdown.

Don't knock the plug-ins. I'm like you; I like to get my hands on hardware, but even if you don't think you will ever use virtual instruments, there are plug-ins that can be handy problem solvers in the studio. One more nice thing about Metro is that it can accept both VST and Audio Unit plug-ins natively. I'm using a hardware/software mix now, and every time I turn around there seems to be some new and really inexpensive plug-in that does something cool that I couldn't do with my existing hardware. It allows you to build a collection of specialized things cheaply. That way, instead of spending money on hardware that only does one thing, you can get it cheap in the form of plug-ins, and save your money for the really good hardware bits. (I'd love to have an Andromeda, but I'm building a house right now... talk about the ultimate money-sucker...)

Have you picked out your audio and MIDI interfaces? If you're going to have a lot of hardware synths, a good MIDI interface is important. Mine are both MOTU: the 828 for audio and the MIDI Express XT USB for MIDI. The 828 is probably overkill for what you are doing; you can get something like a 2-channel USB interface and save money over the 828. But get a bigger MIDI interface than what you think you need right now. If you only get a single-port or 2-port unit, you'll regret it once you have 4-5 synths in your studio.

[CatloveX]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I will surely look at this program. I need a Pc to try the demo as there is only one demo for this platform.

Have a look at that :
Doepfer MAQ16/3 MIDI Analog Sequencer :
http://www.doepfer.de/maq_e.htm

I don't know how to use this thing but I am curious to know how good this could replace a digital seq. What would be your thoughts about that?

For the audio card my choices, as you can see, are not yet done but I think Motu 828 MkII is a very nice interface for the money, 96Khz is enough, even though I am thinking of getting something as a Kurzweil KSP8 that could make converters + effects + compressor in one.
http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/produc...cts.html?Id=278

In your post you seem to be more and more soft orientated...

Blue

This post has been edited by CatloveX: Mon 9 May 2005, 09:07

[coldharbour]

The "industry standard" for high profile trance producers (in the style of AvB, BT, etc.) is Logic Pro 7 in the studio, and Ableton Live on gigs.

I recommend an analogue seq only if you're producing _really_ simple stuff in the style of early 1990's. Programming songs into an analogue step-sequencer is a real pain compared to modern day audio sequencers.

In my opinion it's best to start with softsynths, there's nothing you can't do with them compared to vintage gear. Just check out the wonderful synths that come along Logic Pro 7 and add on eg. NI Komplete, that's really all you need. I know many people will convince you that "Juno 106 is the ultimate bass machine for punchy sounds", but when you play them your track using, say ES-M on bass - they really can't tell the difference (been there, done that).

Most of the major trance stuff (and club stuff overall) nowadays is produced 99% on software.

Surely if you have a big budget you can invest on vintage gear, but there's no real reason to do so anymore, unless you're a analogue purist who just wants to use old gear for the sake of principle.

This post has been edited by coldharbour: Mon 9 May 2005, 13:34

[CatloveX]

To coldharbour :

Before buying the Andromeda I listened to Virus demos which is supposed to be much better than any V.A. software and the major hard piece to own in trance nowadays... the sound didn't satisfy me at all, that's why I bought analog.

I don't know how Logic sounds but I doubt that it is better than the so well known Virus. (By the way, how to warm up a soft?)

Plus, the majority of trance artists I saw are much more using Cubase than Logic (not the point though, as many are using PC) and many of the ones I like (Xenomorph, Necton, Noma, Ticon, Etnica, Jaia, Yumade... versus Astral Projection as an example) have a different sound, it is warmer and less digital. I suppose that the gear makes the difference and not the producing skills.

I can't see their gear list anywhere... I mailed once Xenomorph and he only told me that he is using a Moog for the bass.

My dream studio (go to the studio part) : http://www.dejavurecords.com/

This post has been edited by CatloveX: Mon 9 May 2005, 15:10

[CatloveX]

I found another nice studio :

This one uses both seq. digital with cubase (on mac) and the Doepfer I was refering to. (click on the third sign from the web menu).

http://www.messages.to/masa-k/

This post has been edited by CatloveX: Mon 9 May 2005, 15:57

[lepetitmartien]

Mhmm analogue gear (drool)

There's already a lot of threads on DP vs PT vs Logic vs Cubase and a few others. i'd sum this into:

- DP ia a professional package, MIDI and audio, there's a learning curve, good quality overall, it's MOTU which s…s
- Logic is a professional package, maybe THE MIDI package, steep learning curve but worth it. You have Apple behind now, so it's rock solid, even if the upgrade policy s…s too. The dongle give headaches to some (especially when the key breaks itself). There's a light verison of Logic which helps getting into it.
- ProTools as enough MIDI for most people, and certaily the most powerdull audio editing, and fast editing. Learning curve too, but easier than logic. Now PT need Digidesign hardware (it's their dongle) and everything ends in PT, the almost dead end in PT and the way Digi software doesn't play the game like others (like the core audio driver is all for PT once you open PT, you can't share with another app the audio interface). Now it's a pro reference for a reason. certainly the best sounding around (logic then DP close behind).
- Cubase road is clearly set on PCs now, and performances show it. Also Cubase even if very comparable to DP or Logic (I'd say DP feature wise, MIDI in Logic is "definitive") sound quality for some hears, and certainly the untightness about the clock are the bad points, now a lot of people enjoy it. (I don't)

There is Metro that I don't know enough to give a clear advice. And there's Numerology which is only based as a modular "analogue" sequencer, it's worth a look, but it's a midi sequencer only.

I'm not sure a hardware sequencer is the good way to go, save some oldies worth for the groove they can put into music, even if I'm a vintage maniac. Doepfer sequencers are known to be a bit confusing or just a step under the stage they would be GREAT. It's a shame. As most of their sequencer line is getting out of production, I wonder if they are not preparing something. Now there's a lot of modern alternatives but it's expensive anyway. The people I know who use hardware sequencers are making electronic music for years (some for 30 years) and really know what they need from it. It's a high end choice needed in some situations.

I'd counsel you to try DP, metro, PT and Logic if you can at some place to see what it's about. The interface differences may be enough for you to choose from.

[Jimijazz]

Non, t'es sérieux là, mec ?
Tu placerais Logic avant DP en termes de fonctionnalités, de convivialité et surtout de performance audio ???!!!…
Je me suis toujours dit que la qualité du son qui sort de mes enceintes est uniquement dû à la carte audio (et éventuellement du traitement que j'aurais infligé à ma musique), mais là tu me ferais presque douter !
Ainsi donc les Logic Users auraient un meilleur son que moi (utilisateur de DP depuis qu'il a vu le jour, et j'ai commencé la MAO avec Performer en 1987 !)… Triste nouvelle qui, heureusement pour ma gueule et mes productions, est totalement injustifiée.
Comme tout le monde, devant le monopole de Digidesign, j'ai un temps fait des infidélités à Motu, mais j'y suis vite retourné (surtout parce que j'ai été déçu par leur politique commerciale). Mais je me dis que Logic a eu "de la chance" de se faire bouffer par la Pomme, parce que beaucoup d'entre nous se sont dit qu'il valait mieux avoir tous ses oeufs dans le même panier et certains ont même décrété que Logic était un logiciel natif (donc le mieux adapté!)
Moi, je ne crie ni ne danse avec les loups et je ne considère pas non plus devoir une quelconque forme de fidélité à une entreprise particulière. Mais la nature (et mes parents) m'a doté d'une paire d'oreilles qui me fait douter de tes prises de position en ce qui concerne les performances audio comparées de 2 logiciels.
C'est con, je commençais à penser que tu avais une parole d'Évangile sur ce forum… Un autre mythe qui s'effondre, petit bonhomme vert.
Bien à toi, Jimijazz.

[CatloveX]

Thanks for your replies.

Ps. T'exagères un peu Jimijazz

[lepetitmartien]

Please, no French in the ENGLISH forums…

And Jimijazz, I think you misunderstood me… (now I'm going to sleep)