Just Switched To Mac, What Sequencer Should I Use?, Cubase SX? Cubase SL? MOTU DP? Protools? Options

[Kyle]

Hey everybody. I just recently switched from a PC to my wonderful new PowerMac duel 1.25GHz G4. While on PC I used Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and Sonar for all my recording/sequencing. Now that I'm on a mac, what should I look into? I seem to have noticed that the big players are Protools 6, MOTU Digital Performer, and Cubase. Any others I should look into? Thanks in advance.

[iman]

Hey kyle, i'm new to this myself (recent purchase of a mac & geared toward software apps). Apple supports both pro tools audio recording software as well as logic (primarily for midi use).

[lepetitmartien]

Welcome!

Now on the sequencers:

If you need some midi, but want an easy and fast (and goooood) audio editing it's Protools (we still don't know when PT free 6 for X will be available). Save PT free, the Protools environement is almost closed and as the X update is only here since this month, wome things are still missing

Professional MIDI (the know it all) and good audio: Logic. You must know that Apple bought Emagic the editor last summer.

Overall good, more easy to grasp than Logic: DP, announced, should be here well… we still don't know, but it seems to be not a long time from now.

These 3 are the pro choice, but you can use Cubase SX it is looked as less pro, but some users are very happy with it.

If you're used to cakewalk, the Mac version under X is called Metro, but seems to be buggy.

Also remember that a lot of plugins are still waiting their X version. And you can try alternative sequencers like Numerology too if you want (analogue style sequencing) as long as others…

[Kyle]

Sounds great! Thanks for all the suggestions. At this point I think I'm going to go with ProTools 6, but what about hardware? I used an aardvark direct pro 24/96 on my PC, but alas, it is incompatible with OS X and OS 9 (which i can't even boot into) is still only a beta driver. In the 350-400 dollar range, what Interface/Soundcard should I get? I need 24bit 96khz quality on the audio and atleast some MIDI interface. If there isn't a midi interface, without going over the 400 $ price limit, what midi timepiece would you recommend?

[garysome1]

lepetitmartien,
I'm curious, what leads you to think that Metro is buggy?


I believe most of what Metro and Cakewalk had in common was distribution. I'd classify Metro as good for the money - especially if upgrading. There is a no-save/quit after 25 minutes demo available at www.sagantech.biz so you can check it out.

On the plus side it gives plenty of audio tracks for the hardware, good sequencing, supports OS9 and X (quicker than most others did), supports many standards, has passable notation, very fast technical support, frequent updates, some extra features like MP3 jukebox and working w/ movies. Also, doesn't take up 200MB or so on your hard drive (though I know a lot of folks who don't consider a product decent unless it it does take up a lot of space so this could be a minus

On the minus side no printed manual, some say the interface is quirky, the interface isn't as sexy as logic/DP/PT (man Logic and DP are, indeed, great looking interfaces!), no plug-ins included, no surround, controller interface requires much configuration.

I don't have any in-depth/recent experience with DP/PT/Logic so consider that as you read my post. On the other hand, I can make music with Metro and not feel stifled. I could see a huge advantage to PT if you are delivering your music to others in project form.

Hope it helps,
Gary

[stergz]

One thing to note about Pro Tools 6, is that you cannot use it with any third party soundcards. It only works with Digidesign Hardware. In the case where you purchase either an MBox, which I use myself with fabulous results, a Digi001, Toolbox or Digi002, you get ProTools LE 6 included, which is quite powerfull and not that limited as the "LE" tag might suggest. If you purchase ProTools6 the full blown version, it will cost a large sum of money to get all the necessary hardware. It is worth getting a quote from an authorised dealer before making a move.

[rickenbacker]

Ahem, LPM, I don't know if I'd call Cubase SX "less pro". It already has certain features that Logic seem to have "borrowed" for the 6 update.

Plus SX is VST compatible, which opens you up to a whole world of plug-ins that Logic simply can't use (BTW Kyle, Pro Tools plugs are often VERY expensive - disproportionately so).

Logic is very good: SX is very good. Personally, I prefer the interface of SX - it's been much easier to get into with and I'm working quicker than I ever was with Logic. I know I'm in the minority here, but it suits me.

I still like Logic, particularly the vintage synth collection (EVB3, EVD6, EVP88), but having the option to go VST and use plugs like the PSP mastering collection with SX is very welcome.

As for Digital Performer, well they seem to have a terrible record on updates...

My two cents, anyway.

[lepetitmartien]

but what about hardware?

That's a different question, please make another thread

I'm curious, what leads you to think that Metro is buggy?

Look closely on this thread (but you know it already) there are some issues, I don't say it's bad, unusable etc. only that it must be ironed out to be ok. I've been a bit quick on this last night.

I believe most of what Metro and Cakewalk had in common was distribution.  I'd classify Metro as good for the money - especially if upgrading.  There is a no-save/quit after 25 minutes demo available at www.sagantech.biz so you can check it out.

Certainly it's a bargain, but it seems to need a bit of extra work.

no surround

I don't think a lot of users will be really annoyed by that

I don't have any in-depth/recent experience with DP/PT/Logic so consider that as you read my post.  On the other hand, I can make music with Metro and not feel stifled.  I could see a huge advantage to PT if you are delivering your music to others in project form.

PT and Logic are definetly (for the time being) the project form of choice.
It doesn't mean that everyone has to be on PT and Logic, the world would be a boring place

Ahem, LPM, I don't know if I'd call Cubase SX "less pro". It already has certain features that Logic seem to have "borrowed" for the 6 update.

They all borrow from each other. All the major midi sequencers try to match PT on the audio side, and PT is gaining in midi.
Some are better at this game than others.

Plus SX is VST compatible, which opens you up to a whole world of plug-ins that Logic simply can't use (BTW Kyle, Pro Tools plugs are often VERY expensive - disproportionately so).

You are damn right
I'm on DP, no VST but you can live with it. Almost no free plug-ins, but they are good.

Logic is very good: SX is very good. Personally, I prefer the interface of SX - it's been much easier to get into with and I'm working quicker than I ever was with Logic. I know I'm in the minority here, but it suits me.

Logic is well known for it unlogic behaviour and its deepness in midi stuff. It can't be beaten on midi (I'm still waiting on synch reports upon SX, is it as bad as pre SX cubase or better).
Cubase has still an awfull record of bugs and quickinesses to make forget. there's a lot of new things in SX, I hope the better. But it's not viewed as pro. But the ease of use of the midi part is a good thing.
On the Audio side, Nuendo is definetly in the pro league and worth a look.

As for Digital Performer, well they seem to have a terrible record on updates...

That side of MOTU is their weakness, but if you wait a little all gets in order. MOTU users have the habit, and you have a good sequencer, pro level , deep enough but not encyclopedic on MIDI, and good audio.

Have a look on Five12 Numerology, it's just out of beta, and trys to be original (analogue sequencer style)

Now some of the contenders are just available in X (PT) or still on the waiting list (DP)

sigh!

I think that if you can, you should really have a taste of the contenders before to decide. If you're a bedroom user, some interest of the pros won't appeal to you, but ease of use will be the main thing. And each seq has its strongholds.

[rickenbacker]

I think that if you can, you should really have a taste of the contenders before to decide. If you're a bedroom user, some interest of the pros won't appeal to you, but ease of use will be the main thing. And each seq has its strongholds.

Exactly. If you're lucky enough to get to try as many as possible before buying so you can figure out which one you like best, that's the only way to do it. They all do more or less the same thing and each has its own little "specials".

It seems to be that the first thing you start with is what you carry on with. Saying that, I started using Logic last summer and now prefer SX. Never used Cubase before that, so SX is my first impressions of Steinberg's work and I like it a lot. I'll probably end up using both for different songs - more for the fun of it than any particular reason.

Some say Logic's internal FX are better than those in Cubase, mainly because they have to be, what with not supporting VST and all. Steinberg can rely on third-party developers specialising in reverbs, delays, soft synths etc to expand the Cubase experience. Logic pretty much have to do it all themselves. Good thing/bad thing? You get less choice, but what they do, they do very well.

I have absolutely no opinion of Digital Performer, apart from the fact that people who use it are generally passionate about it - and that's a good thing!

[Kyle]

Once again, wonderful feedback. I have now removed ProTools from my shelf of options due to cost and the fact that it limits what hardware I can use. So now it's come down to either Cubase SX, Logic Audio, or Digital Performer. I wish there were more demos available for these apps, but I guess I'm just going to have to go for reviews and such. If any of you have links to good reviews or even a possible demo, please post them here, or even e-mail them to me. dreden@deskmod.com

Thanks again.