Capturing To External Hdd - Fast Enough? Options

[fiddler100]

Hi Folks

I still haven't quite made it into the Mac World but have nearly settled on the following setup:

- Intel iMac 20"
- 2GB RAM
- Vantec NexStar2 Firewire enclosure + 300GB HDD
- PreSonus Firebox audio interface w/ 2x XLR inputs
- Edirol MA-15D monitors

I intended to use the external firewire HDD as my primary audio capture disk as this would leave the iMac HDD free for OS/application read/writes. Since I've never used an external Firewire HDD before, I'm unsure if it will be fast enough to capture my audio. I'm pretty sure it will be but I thought it best to check. I've only ever used PCs in the past and have always used the HDDs installed in the machine rather than external disks.

In fact, now I come to think of it, the iMac HDD is SATA. The NexStar2 HDD enclosure I was looking at uses PATA HDDs. Do you think I'd be better capturing directly to the internal HDD in the iMac or using the external for capture?

Your comments on this (and my proposed setup) would be really appreciated.

Cheers,
Fiddler.

This post has been edited by fiddler100: Sun 19 Feb 2006, 06:46

[Wilko]

Hello. I'm a recent newbie to the mac recording world as well. Switched over from PC to Mac for one simple reason. They just work. :)

However, to answer your question, I'm using a Presonus Firepod, and I have managed to capture audio to an external Acom Data USB 2.0 drive no problem using logic express. The reason I am capturing to an external hard-drive, is because my mac mini's internal hard drive is even slower (it can still record fine for a couple inputs), and was running out of space.

You shouldn't have any problems recording to an external hard drive, let alone a firewire one.

As for comments on te set up, the presonus firebox pre-amps are absoloutely stunning for the price. My recordings are crystal clear, very crisp, very precise... as well as obviously very digital. If you want to warm things up, I'd suggest getting "Art MP" pre-amp for $50 or so, then throwing in a $15 groove-tube to make it sound like it costs a lot more. :) At the store, the sales rep was telling me about a "blind test" they did with a voice-over going through 4 different pre-amps of various prices, and then getting random people to listen to them and tell them which sounded best. Apparently everyone that came in selected the voice-over that went through the firebox pre-amp as their first or second pick, which is actually saying a lot considering one of the pre's it was being put up against was a $700 single XLR input. And he wasn't telling me this to make me buy it, because they don't work on commision, as well as I had already bought it, heheh.

I envy your mighty 2 gb of ram i Mac. Shouldn't have any problems with CPU power, unless you plan to start chaining fireboxes together (not supported yet?) and get tonnes of inputs running at once. :D

Just remember, the Cubase LE software that will come with your firebox, if you are planning to use it, will NOT install on Tiger. There is a long discussion on the Cubase forums, where a guy by the name of "Jungalero" remedies the situation with a simple installer. I'll give you a link if you need one!

Good luck! :)

This post has been edited by Wilko: Sun 19 Feb 2006, 06:50

[lepetitmartien]

Left the internal HD to the system/apps/virtual memory and swap audio to external, even with a fast internal drive you'll encounter conflicts one day when the heads of the drive will have too much to do on their hands. And it can happen fast.

Firewire is more efficient at real time streaming than USB, final. It won't show on a small number of tracks but in the dozens it will.

Choose a FW enclosure with an Oxford bridge to IDE/ATA drives, it's fast and reliable. also, only FW external drive will allow you to boot from them, not USB! Should you need it. I don't know the enclosure you write about, so I can't tell.

On the drive itself, given the size of audio file, 8 MB of cache will be as efficient as 16 MB (only needed for lots of small files), Seagate are more reliable on the long time (less return %).

Edirol monitors are just multimedia monitors, whatever they say, what's your intended budget?

[fiddler100]

Thanks guys for your comments so far - much appreciated!

I guess I should have told you a bit more about the kind of audio I'll be recording. I'll mainly be working with acoustic fiddle and guitar and won't really need any more than 6-8 tracks at a time (if that!). I can't see that being much of a problem for my proposed system. Yes, I'll be using the odd effect here and there (mainly reverb) but won't be dumping loads on!

Now to your specific comments ...

Wilko - I'm interested in your point about warming things up. Since I haven't used the Firebox before I don't have any experience with their pre-amps. All the reviews I've read said they are very good (as do you) but you also say they sound very digital. I've done some reading on the Art MP pre-amp and the groove tube stuff. Am I right in thinking that to warm things up I should purchase an Art MP mic pre-amp (like this) and then physically install a new tube into it (like one of the ones listed here)? Wow! An impressive piece of advice and I'm all for it if it'll warm the sound of my instruments up! Doesn't this mean that the pre-amps in the Firebox are now superfluous? If so, shouldn't I look at a cheaper interface that has just line level inputs and use this in combination with two Art pre-amps? I dunno. You've given me some good advice but I'm now a bit more confused!

Oh, there's no need to envy my 2GB RAM as I don't actually own this system yet! And I won't be using Cubase LE. Thought I'd play with GarageBand for a while until I need to upgrade. I may find it is plenty for the kind of music I'm working with.

lepetitmartien - I've read good things about the Edirols. My budget is not high so I thought they would be a good compromise. At the moment I'm using a very crappy, muddy sounding set of Creative 2.1s so ANYTHING will be an improvement! I realise they aren't serious studio monitors but I think for my needs they will fit the bill. Alternatives, if you've got some, will be considered though!

Thanks again guys!

[fiddler100]

Anyone else have any advice for me? I'm particularly interested in Wilko's suggestion about buying an Art MP pre-amp and installing a Groove Tube inside it. Any thoughts on this?

[lepetitmartien]

For monitors, I need to have a $ figure to give you alternatives.

[TheCatman]

recording to external FW HD is no prob. You should get alot better results than those using USB2.0, since Firewire is at a stable 400, while USB2.0 is very variable with a THEORETICAL peak at 480. (All numbers = mbit/s)

AS for monitors, you should simply bring your favoourite album, along with some mixen you might have made on your home set-up, and listen to tehm on all the monitors within your pricerange at your local dealer. Ic anrecomend alot of monitors for you, but you really should do a simple test for yourself. (I like Genelec 8030A`s myself.) I`ve heard good things about the Edirols, but have never HEARD them myself, so I can`t comment.

For a DAW working mostly with real instruments (as opposed to virtual instruments/softsynths and such), I really would recomend ProTools with a Mbox2. It`s in the same pricerange as the Firebox/pod and gives you really nice preamps, and by far the best software for working with and editing audio. However, if you have your heart set on the presonus card (which is also very nice), than Logic is the software for you. Garageband is fun and all, and I used to do alot of midnight-bright-ideas- work on it, but after getting Logic Express and seeing how much more power my iBook seems to have in logic, compared to Garageband, there`s no doubt in my mind. Logic outperforms GB not only with features, but also with efficiency.

Those are my thoughts on your soon-to-be home-rig. (It looks real nice on paper )

<S>

[Uncle Kvetch]

For monitors, I need to have a $ figure to give you alternatives.

OK, I'll throw out a $ figure: $200.

When you stop laughing, I'd love to hear your recommendations.

[UP Multimedia]

Uncle... If you only have $200.00 get a good pair of Headphones... Use them until you have "several more hundred". Otherwise you will be stuck for years with crappy Audio Monitors..... If you don't thik it matters... Get whatever. It's the music after all that must sound good, not the monitors...

[Uncle Kvetch]

Duly noted, UP Multi. I appreciate the feedback.

I don't suppose you (or anybody else) have a favorite pair of headphones in the ~$200 range to recommend?

Thanks.