Pro Tools Purchase, Beginner Options

[damann]

i'm  thinking of taking the plunge and getting mac OS X.2 and logic platinum, even though that's so beyond my learning curve i wouldn't even know where to start.

cydonia, you already started!
none of us ever STOP learning about what we're doing with mac's and music!
you'll be happily surprised that this "hallowed" application can function as basically as the newbie stuff!
once you're on the ladder, it's just a matter of time and, of course, experience!
there's a famous quote that says "start the way you intend to continue".
as shalamar said:- "make that move, right now , baby".
platinum has "automated mixer memories", and so much more...

[cydonia]

Well that's encouraging.
Glad to know it won't be as hard as i imagined.

(fights the urge to buy it right away)

nice quote!

[rickenbacker]

Yeah, go on - give in to that urge!

I recently started working with Logic Platinum (in OS X) and it is pretty hard going at first, but the manuals (especially the recent v.5 addendums) are well written and even entertaining - I actually burst out laughing at one point. Read them and you'll make giant leaps.

Once you understand Logic's way of working, it all becomes clear and, well, logical. Plus you can always just treat it like a digital 4-track and just bang stuff down at first, moving on to using all the complex bells and whistles as you go. It's the best way to learn the program.

And it really is a terrific creative tool. Check out the new soft synths - the EVD6 and EVB3 (unlimited demos in v.5.3). Amazing.

[cydonia2]

Hey i was wondering, would the logic "big box" be a decent alternative to platinum 5 for OSX?

I really want to work in OSX, i wonder if there will be an update for the big box? The only reason i'm a little hesitant about platinum is its price, but i want full features at the same time. It's just me, doing techno songs with some vocals and occasional electric guitar. Is platinum more for studios than the average joe?

Or do i just hand over the cash?

PS-how about the new cubase for OSX? Would that be better?

[Teiwaz]

Logic is the program I have chosen over all others. Damann converted me to it back in 1996 and I've never looked back. As a guitarist/songwriter/programmer, Logic has been the most stable program I have found. I used Cubase for 6 years before that on an Atari, and when I went to Cubase on the Mac, it was full of glitches (major sync problems, amongst others) but hey, that was 6 years ago. Logic has the best 3rd party driver support, some of the best virtual instruments, and along with VST support, just about every kind of sonic manipulation you can imagine is easily attained!

I recommend Platinum 5x. Though I dont run it on OSX yet, because I have too much to lose migrating from OS9 (tons of plugs, software, etc).

If you have to get Cubase, I recommend Nuendo (sounds better than Cubase SX, I've heard) but NOT on a Mac, unfortunately...on a...ugh..PC.

[Teiwaz]

Oh yes, I almost forgot.

Buying Logic 5x is an investment that wont cost much in the future to upgrade. You only have to initially spend the money on buying it, but after that upgrades are generally free and simple to install on your mac (VERY unlike Dodgydesign NoTools/ProFools - you'll pay through your nose for virtually every single upgrade with them - they will 'rob' the money right out of your wallet at every possible turn of a software 'corner', and there is the 'red tape' when performing installations - sooo political) And then you'll visit your friends who dont use ProFools and realise that you made a big mistake, just like a lot of those PT folks out there who cant bear to admit it.

I strongly advise you to go for Logic! And hey, I'm not biased, I would even recommend Cubase SX, DP, or even Nuendo (but you own a proper computer, not a PC)

But dont make the ENORMOUS mistake of buying PT...load of old carp!

[Presto]

Teiwaz - Just a point: PT comes free with digi equipment, so you don't buy it.

I have an Mbox, and I wouldn't blame digi if I couldn't make it work with another app than PT (I once tried petrol for my diesel engine). Still, I am interested in the Emagic/Digi cooperation (see News).

I've no recent experience with other equipment + their appropriate apps, but I can say my PTLE and little digi box does what I want, and the cost was small compared to the rest of my set up.

You aren't credible when you say PT is crap. It's not crap and some great music is made using PT. Perhaps Logic does well the things you need, and PT does well things others need.

The instructions that come with the Mbox/PT are amateur, so I do grumble a bit. Well, not much - its so easy for what I need (for the moment).

Perhaps you're upset because they made you buy a floppy drive to read the plug-in authorisations.

[Teiwaz]

Hi Presto. I dont allow digi to make me upset. The price of a floppy drive is nothing compared to what one ends up spending on the TDM/HD hardware. I'm sure you are quite happy with PTLE.



Also, it just so happens to be my personal opinion that the PT platform is "carp". I'm entitled to that opinion. I earnt myself that opinion by spending all my money on their stuff!! I have much experience with TDM, and VST2. It is simply dodgydesign's ruthlessness towards their customers that I find "carp". If the software was incredible, then maybe I would put up with their customer policies, but it isn't. It's a basic multitracking solution.

Sure, great music can be made on anything, including an ancient 8 track Brenell, for example. But that doesn't mean that one was spared from sticking their finger into the supply reel at the end of their take in order to rewind the tape by hand because the rewind motor had given up. In short, I'm not saying that anyone's music suffers because they use PT. It's just that you have less creative options for more money spent.



Around 6 months ago, I recieved a PT session from another studio. They had done the session in PT 5.1. I had PT 5.0. When I tried to open the song (I had a tight deadline in which to finish the project) I was dismayed to discover that PT 5.0 would not open a 5.1 song file.

Then, to my horror, I was forced into parting with $400 to upgrade to PT 5.1 just so I could OPEN the session. $400!! for a SOFT upgrade! Put another $200 on to that bill, and that's the price of a UAD-1 card! I was literally forced into going down the local music store to get 5.1 in order to begin my session! And what about some vast improvements? 5.1 surround? A handful of very minor improvements...



In stark contrast, Emagic only charged $150 for a huge upgrade path to Logic 5x, tons of new plugs, automation to the hilt, major score improvements, and you can see they worked hard on their authorization protocol...a clever little USB key that holds all registrations for virtual instruments...not a floppy disk in sight in the Logic 5x box, etc etc.

I'm also highly aware that PT comes free with digi equipment. That's how I got "hooked" by them in the first place. As for getting PT software for free with the hardware, I should hope so too, for the $$$!

But remember...you only get their software "free" the first time. Then you're in the $$$ loop.

Concerning your Mbox...have you seen the competition in the form of the Apogee Mini Me? Looks very enticing indeed...

I dont care for not looking credible in the eyes of PT users...what does that mean anyway?! I'M still a PT user (occasionally, only because certain areas of the 'industry' still insists on using it still, but people are beginning to realise that the horse & carriage is being replaced by the car...)



PS: Yes, my native county is in fact...Lancashire.

[damann]

surely it's good that these forums can give readers an insight into the negatives of musicians tools as well as the positive stuff that we can get from any salesman.
teiwaz certainly isn't on his own with his opinion. i, and many others have voiced the same dissapointments with digi. how come digi users, unlike users of other products mentioned in these forums, get so upset when they read criticism?
what you construe as angry ranting from teiwaz is actually that famous aspect of the british sense of humour called "irony". the problem here is that it seems unique to us. i collapse laughing when i read this stuff, the only posts that anger me are the humourless, uptight personal attacks i've recieved when i've dared to have a laugh at digi's expense!!!
peace and freedom of speech to all...

[Presto]

I've already said more on this subject in reply to the same issue, posted by Teiwaz, in a few other forums.

In brief: distinguish between 'low-end' and 'high end' PT stuff. My PTLE/Mbox is not crap, and it cost me less than Auto-Tune (which I didn't buy). It's great for audio-recording and automation and so easy (for the mo).

Cf title "Beginners" - not usually interested in buying high-end stuff!

Don't worry Damann, Teiwaz and I seem to understand each other. Ow ista od lad?