Presonus Firebox Reviews?, Anyone actually use this yet? Options

[ArchivalAudio]

wondering if anyone has actually used the new PreSonus FireBox? Its been available in Europe for a month now... and just became available here in the US. I am wondering if any has tried this unit out... I am strongly considering gettting one. I would like to hear any reviews of this new interface.

any opinions?
power consumption in the feild? etc.

thanx
-- Ian

[arvidtp]

i'd like to know too!

[lepetitmartien]

Available one month before in Europe? for the product of a US company?

[ArchivalAudio]

Crazy I know! when I sent an email regarding ship date of the Firebox to Presonus, here was what they said
"It's shipping only to Europe in December. It will begin shipping in the US in January."

so anyone got one yet?
-- Ian

[charlzz]

Yes, Guitar Center, Portland Oregon, had 3 Fireboxes last week!

[ArchivalAudio]

Yes, Guitar Center, Portland Oregon, had 3 Fireboxes last week!

Yes...cool....thanx.... but does you or anyone you know actually know have any experience using them... I know I could also get one from my buddy Frank at Cascade Media in Portland OR... but I am still wondering if there are any user reviews?
since they have supposedly been out for over a month know in Europe.
anyone?

-- Ian

[GitGeezer]

I'm currently testing one now. Very preliminary results:

Apparently NO software drivers required (class compliant). I just plugged it in and it worked, but only after I forced re-sync with the Audio MIDI Setup utility.

NO documentation at all (paper or PDF) came with the unit. The little software mixer has no online help either.

MIDI and SP/DIF I/O is accomplished with a multi-cable plugged into a 9-pin D connector. I wasn't expecting the SP/DIF capability; it will be a nice surprise if it works.

Much more rugged physically than the M-Audio interfaces. The graduated pots are mounted securely to a metal case.

Two Firewire ports, enabling daisy-chaining an external Firewire drive for us laptop users. Trying to do a large file copy between the external and internal drives through the Firebox caused a black screen, however.

NOTE: the published minimum specs are for an 800Mhz G4. I'm using a 667Mhz G4 Powerbook (1GB RAM, 80GB FW400 external drive), I'll be trying to find out if this is a serious limitation.

If anyone else has one, please share your experiences.

[ArchivalAudio]

GitGeezer
thanx
for the post that is mixed news I guess...
are you in europe or the US....or elsewhere?
let us know of you successes or faliures
thanx
again
-- Ian

[GitGeezer]

Greetings, Ian...

I'm in the Northwest US (north Idaho).

So far I have been successful routing audio to powered monitors. The interface seems to sync more consistently if it is plugged in to the Firewire port (I'm not using the provided external power supply) before powering up my Mac. This is contrary to 'standard practice' regarding Firewire hard drives being plugged in AFTER powering up the computer.

No further direct experience yet, but I'll be testing latency by recording guitar tracks in Live 4.1 MIDI, and SP/DIF recording, stay tuned. This will include trying to get their software mixer application to do zero-latency (or close to it) direct monitoring.

The day after my previous post I checked the Presonus web site and there was a PDF manual available:

http://www.presonus.com/pdf/fireboxManual1.0.pdf

I have yet to find instructions for zero-latency monitoring similar to the hardware method used by other interfaces. Hopefully I'll figure it out.

GitGeezer

[arvidtp]

I await your review of the box! particularly how stable it is, and whether there is noticeable input monitoring latency when using the software mixer - and if recording SPDIF analog at the same time really works. Thanks a lot!

[ArchivalAudio]

Hey
Git cool
looking forward to more reviews
foun this in the PDF manual
kinda basic but... looks like 0 latentcy might not be possible
to quote the manual (could be windoz related)

Latency: – Sets the amount of delay time of your FIREBOX (1.5ms – 24ms). Latency
is the time it takes for the computer to process audio. Lower latency settings demand
more CPU resources. In the case of inconsistent audio, (i.e. drop outs, pops and
clicks, digital distortion, etc) we recommend that you increase this setting.


good luck
and let us all know how this thing works
thanx
again
-- Ian

[arvidtp]

that is probably talking about stuff that actually goes into the computer. Zero (or near zero) latency is only for monitoring directly through the box without going through the computer. many boxes accomplish this by just by sending analog in to the headphone out while still in analog.

The firebox, however, looks to have a digital mixer inside that is controlled by software on the computer - which should introduce at least a tiny bit of latency by definition, but hopefully only a tiny tiny bit - like in a digital mixing console, because it is dedicated hardware. In this case (for monitoring the input only of course), the audio never goes to the CPU.

Your statement from the manual, however, is absolutely true of every digital audio interface and computer - but for the audio that goes in gets processed and comes back out.

best,

[khvt]

Any more reviews on Firebox? Thanks.

[GitGeezer]

More Firebox experience:

Recording a stereo track (POD XT Live) and monitoring through the application (Live 4.1) resulted in unacceptable latency. Using the Firebox software mixer per their instructions worked much better, just be sure you like your incoming processed sound (I did, the POD XT Live is working well so far) because that's what you are recording. As you have discovered there is an online PDF manual. Note that the latency adjustments mentioned in the manual are for PC only. Note also that the recommended system for Macs are G4 800mhz or greater. Mine is a 667mhz G4 Powerbook so I'm living on the edge.

Be careful of bumping the Firewire cable during use. The Firebox can lose sync, usually requiring a reboot.

First major glitch: recording incoming SPDIF is not working. The software mixer can play it back, but no inputs show up in software. The Mac System Preferences Sound screen does show the incoming audio on it's meter, but it is "invisible" to any audio applications I've tried. I sent an email requesting help three days ago, so far no response from Presonus. If anyone else has some ideas (I saw the reference to SPDIF earlier in this thread) please let me know.

Gitgeezer

[bbmozee]

At long last, the missing link I've found. Ever since OS X came out my search for the promised land of elegant, rock-solid, inspired music creation on the Mac took me on many adventures (and plenty of mis-adventures!). Last night that musical holy grail came into view. My eMac G4 1.25GHz/Superdrive/80GB with external LaCie PORSCHE Firewire HD, Panther 10.3.8, Logic Pro 7, and now the new and "hottest" piece of the puzzle--a Prosonus FIREBOX, made beautiful music together. Hot, sweet and sexy--a dream come true. The FIREBOX has me totally stoked!

Here's the story so far. Been using the MBox and PT LE (and will continue to do so with my TiBook/667) but I have a new eMac now with the greatest music production program ever--Logic Pro 7--and need at least four simultaneous recording inputs to flesh out my original jazz compositions. I first tried the M-Audio FW410 but gave up on the flaky drivers, cheesy controls and uneven sound. Took it back and settled for a Tascam US-122. After updating to the 3.2.3 OS X driver all was stable but I was back to only 2 channel recording and the headphone amp was really weak (the direct monitoring and insert capability are nice and I'll be keeping it for my music students to use). I was twisting in the wind. Do I go way overkill with the MOTU 828 or Traveler, the Edirol FA1010 or Prosonus FirePod? Ouch! Don't need all that much and want to spend much less. Can't I just KISS? Thanks to the FIREBOX the final answer is YES!

Got mine yesterday at Guitar Center in Buffalo for 399. Brought it home and just to be sure downloaded the latest software for it from the Prosonus Web site. It appears to be the same as on the included CD (ver. 1). BTW, the box contained the printed manual, AC adapter, MIDI/SPDIF and Firewire cables. Plugged everything in, installed the software, repaired permissions, restarted. FIREBOX recognized! Just had to set up Sound control panel and Audio/MIDI prefs to lock things together (cool blue light on FIREBOX shows that all is groovin'). Launched Logic Pro 7, changed audio interface default to the FIREBOX and got working! It just sounded beautiful.

Thankyou Prosonus, Panther and Logic for making it all happen. At long last, it's time to play!

[khvt]

Hi bbmozee. Thanks for your post about the fabulousness of the firebox! I have the M-Audio 410 & have been looking around for awhile for a replacement. Did you also consider the Edirol fa-66? I'm having a hard time deciding between firebox & fa-66 - (same price same features)? And no real reviews that I can find so far. Anyway, thanks again & have FUN! khvt

[ArchivalAudio]

bbmozee

hey
great to hear such an enthusastic review!
I am evr closer to getting one... still waiting for ye olde tax return...
hope fully soon

So you are using Logic 7 ... and it is smooth with the Firebox sofar? do you ever use the CubaseLE... with it? if so how that working? well I would expect.
I would most likely be using it for in the field (live shows) recording either Just Mics (stereo pair) or mics + the PA soudboard feed. currently for DAT transfers I use Cubase So I am familiar with it, and I Use Peak for tracking and edits before going to JAM to burn... still on lod System 9 here, but also I am gonna get an ibook G4 soon as well ... so I'll be new to OSX.
can't wait for the fresh change.....my G3 enabled Mac clone is getting a bit slow these days.

keep us posted

This post has been edited by ArchivalAudio: Wed 2 Mar 2005, 06:42

[cookshack]

Are all of you guys still short on mic pres? Terratec PHASE 24 FW from JD Sound $249.00 USD.
Fully Balanced I/O, 192kHz AD/DA,SPDIF i/O and MIDI I/O, and includes the optional power supply and FWcable, and functional control panel. I'm not saying you don't want mic pres, I'm just saying that if you dont need two more then this is the answer.

Just for fun...I connected my drum triggers to midi in on Phase 24, using multichannel EXS in logic audio 6.3.1 on G4 PB 867mHz to trigger samples, output 3-4 on Phase 24 to outboard effects, back in through input 1-2 and record (audio) while monitoring playback on Output 1-2 on Phase 24. Didn't notice any drag!

I will post again once I've actually measured the latency on my system.

[bbmozee]

More on the fab FIREBOX:
Smooth and in the groove with Logic 7. Will use it with GarageBand soon. Don't have experience with Cubase LE but it's included if you need it. The fit and finish of the FIREBOX is first-rate. Should prove roadworthy. It will require at least OS X 10.3.7 (I'm on 10.3.8) and a 1GHz G4 with 512MB RAM to get results like mine.
I didn't wait for the Roland FA-66 as I've found US companies usually have better drivers ('cept M-Audio?) sooner. I can't believe how solid the v.1 drivers/software are. They mentioned that a lot was already built into OS X 10.3.7 and I don't doubt it. The latency is there but not disturbing with Logic 7 and I usually monitor thru a Mackie mixer anyway. I'm not sure of a way to adjust it on the Mac. So far, the FIREBOX just rocks!

[arvidtp]

sounds cool bbmozee

but you *can* turn the latency down to like 64 in logic (audio driver preferences), right? and does it work? - if maybe not very CPU efficient. The user should be able to control the latency, it is just how much your system can handle at that setting - unless you are using an Mbox and digidesign says "You must use a giant buffer of 512 or 1024 because WE SAY SO"

If i get something I would *need* it to perform well at very low latency - similar to the internal card in a perfect world...

and you're not having the sync (or lack thereof) troubles that others report?

thanks for posting your results - both of you - it is you guys who take the plunge first and then tell the rest the good and the bad who are taking the risk thanks

[GitGeezer]

a little more Firebox experience...

I got an email response from Presonus regarding the SPDIF issues but I haven't had time to try their suggestions. I had performed the setup steps correctly, but they have some specifics for Live 4.1 that I will try. I wanted to use Live for organizing the material that I'm attempting to capture from a Roland VS880 but I changed to a two track editor option to ease the system load. So far no SPDIF inputs are available. As soon as I test the Presonus suggestions I'll post the results and the instructions.

My previous comments were devoid of comments on the sound of the Firebox. I would take this as encouraging "no-news-is-good-news". The sound is transparant and uncolored, just what I was looking for.

More to come...
GG

[beltunabob]

JD sounds has a price now of $199 on the Terratec PHASE 24 FW.

[bbmozee]

I must admit that I haven't been able to make the SPDIF connection work between the FIREBOX and my MBOX. Any light shed on the SPDIF issue would be appreciated! Other than that, all is well.

[bbmozee]

FIREBOX clarification--I can get the MBOX SPDIF output into the FIREBOX but no luck getting that signal recorded into Logic 7 Pro. The other 4 inputs record beautifully. Time for PreSonus to come to the rescue!

[ullanta]

Hmmm... what are you trying to do in connecting the Mbox to the Firebox? Is this on a single computer? I don't think either the Mbox or the Firebox work standalone, so... unless you're using 2 computers, I don't undertstand the point.

If there is indeed a point, how are you synchronizing the clocks? Could that be your issue?

-Barry

[arvidtp]

This is the same setup i would like ideally too. The Mbox manual claims that whatever goes in (seems to suggest this includes the direct signal from the analog mic pres - does anyone know for sure?) goes out the digital SPDIF all the time. The ideal would be to plug the mbox in, but not have any app in the computer use it - just power it from USB, then have it send audio via SPDIF to the firebox as it comes in the inputs, yielding an interface with 6 analog ins instead of 4. This would be awesome - Those of us without a lot of fancy hardware really cant take advantage of SPDIF inputs otherwise (For instance I have never had use for the SPDIF on my Mbox).

But I agree - how would the clocks be synced? How is this usually done between SPDIF devices? but it seems bbmozee CAN get his mbox SPDIF into the firebox - which means its prolly not a sync issue, correct? because the firebox understands the signal. he just cant get the SPDIF channels to show up in software as recordable inputs - correct?

[digimusic]

is there fire in the box???


i am in amsterdam and the firebox is coming end this month in the shops and then its decision-time to buy my first soundcard, or as we say in holland: lets saw some wood .got a fireboxquestion, hope one of u can anwser.
exactly howmuch latency are you experiencing with the firebox. zero? or a little? how much ms.. is it better compared to the m-box? i am planning to play sax and trumpet (so analogin-and analog out thrue the box should be zero latency right?)with the softsynths and beats in cubase on the background (well digital in -analog out also zero latency right?) still got my doubts about the software-mixer of the fireboxas compared to internal dedicated hardware mixing of my other option, the edirol fa 101 (sorry for souncard comparison number 1.019.001)

thanks for your time,
mark

[bbmozee]

Details re: Mbox-FireBox SPDIF connection.
1-I'm using this to get audio digitally from my laptop into my desktop computer.
2-The Mbox is connected to a TiBook 667/DVI and the FireBox is connected to an eMac 1.25/SuperDrive. OS X 10.3.8 on both. I've settled on 44100 kHz/24 bit I/O. The Mbox is setup for Analog I/O. This works because SPDIF out mirrors the analog out!
3-The FireBox is setup with Clock Source:FIREBOX SpdifIn (in the Audio MIDI panel).
4-So far, this setup can get mics, line, instument and even iTunes or ProTools LE playback into the FireBox via SPDIF. I'm able to monitor this via headphone and main outs on the FireBox (as long as the FireBox Mixer app is set to monitor "MIX" once sync is established).
5-The problem so far is that with the Clock Source set to SpdifIn, Logic 7 doesn't see the FireBox. With the source set to Mac, the four anaog inputs behave perfectly--but now the signal from the Mbox is lost. I've sent an e-mail to PreSonus regarding this and still await their response.
6-For now the SPDIF issues are all that remain. MIDI has performed flawlessly and considering that the Mbox cost me over a hundred bucks more for just 2 channels, I'm not going to bitch. But I still want that SPDIF! I'll keep y'all posted.

[ArchivalAudio]

wow
lotsa good info about the box here...
sorry I won't be much help... But I am glad that there is some posting going on
I do have one Idea that may help to determine if there is a fault with the SPDIF in on the FireBox here...

bbmozee
you may have already tried this?
do you have another unit to substitute for the SPDIF like a DAT or CD or DVD that will output SPDIF? that way you can send it into the FireBox and at least tell if you can get a signal.... providing that the SAME unit can also send a good siginal into the Mbox as well. well not meaing to connect or daisy chein them together just try one then the other simply to see if the firebox can get ANY digi in ... have you tried that yet?

also I know this may or may not help ...
many years ago now I had gotten (& still have) an EgoSys Waveterminal2496 , and kept having problems with it I thought it was cause of my machine met the minimun suggested but not the optimal suggested.... also the tech guys (who I emailed and spoke to by phone) did not even have a Mac in their lab to test any of the things they were telling me. Mac and windoz had a much different interface via the ASIO ... short story long: turns out the card, I struggled with for months.... getttin to work sometimes and clicking and popping others... was bad! they sent me a new replacement aferter trying hundreds of things and ...Volia! no more problems
the point is
make sure the SPDIF can or can not receive a signal from some other source first... a reliable source.
make sense?
sorry for the long winded ramblin'

hope that this may be of some use....

good luck!

-- Ian

This post has been edited by ArchivalAudio: Sat 5 Mar 2005, 21:57

[ullanta]

How is the clock set up on the Mbox side?

[bbmozee]

FireBox saga continued.
First of all I must mention that I've been able to use the FireBox (with FireBox Mixer MIX buttons selected) to monitor the SPDIF signals thru the MBox ONLY via ProTools LE 6.7 (perhaps previous versions work too). The Mbox was set to Analog I/O 44.1 kHz. It seems to automatically mirror analog out SPDIF! My ancient SONY DAT SPDIF out almost made it into Logic 7 (before i lost sync when I attempted to change from 41000 to 48 kHz on the fly in Logic to match the DAT).
The saga continues...

[bbmozee]

DAT to FireBox to eMac and Peak a success! Just had to compensate for 16 bit stereo 48kHz SpdifIn clocking. Now if only Logic Pro could do the same!

[GitGeezer]

Regarding my SPDIF problem...

I haven't had time to try the latest Presonus suggestions using Live to record, but my problem was that I was hearing SPDIF input through the Firebox (set to SpdifIn, 16/44100 clock matching the source) monitor output, but it was not available as recordable input to any application. I'm using a Roland VS880 as the SPDIF source. The VS880 has controls for clock speed, so I'll play with those. Glad to hear of success for bbmozee, it bodes well for the rest of us. And congrats to bbmozee on a very creative way to combine inputs from both boxes!

Gitgeezer

[bbmozee]

My experiences mirror GitGeezer's - only with Logic 7 Pro. FireBox monitors inputs fine but they are unavailable for recording. BTW thanks for the props re: MBox-FireBox SPDIF setup - but I've yet to realize 6 simultaneous inputs to record into Logic. I'm still waiting for PreSonus to respond. Otherwise, the FireBox has my full approval.

[GitGeezer]

Sorry to hear about the Logic 7 problem. I am just about to switch to Logic 7, hope it begins to cooperate. One of the big advantages to the Firebox should be the fact that it is "class compliant". This means that no software drivers are required. The bad news is that problems like our SPDIF issue can't be solved with driver updates.

I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but here are the instructions from Presonus for SPDIF:

Jason's connection setup for Live (from email):

First of all you need to go to Applications>Utilities>Audio Midi Setup.

Once you are in there, change the "Properties For" menu to PreSonus FireBox.

Then below that, there is a "Clock Source" menu. Change that menu to PreSonus Firebox Spdifin. 


I'm very familiar with Live 4 so let's speak in terms of that program from here out.

Go into Live's preferences and select the FireBox in both the Input and Output audio devices.

Then, below that, a settings box appears. There's a channel configuration line at the bottom.

Click the input config button and activate all of the choices you are given.

Do the same for the output config.

Close out of the preferences.

In the track that you are recording the spdif into, choose "Ext. in" and then choose "5/6" if you are doing a stereo track, or do them separately to different channels. This should make everything work.

The interesting part is the activation of all inputs and outputs from the Firebox. Could it be that SPDIF is only available on 5/6? No big deal if it works. I have become intrigued with Live 4.1 just when I learned that it is a resource hog on Macs. Oh well...

GitGeezer

[digimusic]

HI PEOPLE, I RECENTLY ASKED A Q ABOUT THE FIRBOX IN THIS THREAT BUT NO ANWSERS CAUSE YOU GUYS TO BUSY WITH SPDIF ETC. ANYWAY I CONTACTED PRESONUS ABOUT THE CPU DRAIN AND THE SOFTWAREMIXER, HERE'S THE EMAIL CORRESPONDING. HOPE THIS HELPFULL FOR MORE INFO ABOUT THE FIREBOX. (still not available in europe... ) IF U HAVE ANY INFO OR REMARKS ABOUT PRESONUS ANWSERS PLEASE ADD TO THIS THREAT, LET"S BUILD UP SOME INFO


(me)i want to use the fb to play some background blues and jazz. for this i want to letthe fb play a jazz beat and piano from cubase. so this is digital - thru the software mixer- and then analog ou, right?

presonus---That is correct.

and at the sametime play live a saxophone,trumpet and singing . so this is analog-digital (but not thru cubase but only thru the mixer right) -analag. right?

---That is correct too.

? is it all zero-latency / or so little it won't bother during live sessions and at the sametime recording it in one of amsterdams finest bars in the red light district..

---It is all zero-latency.

last question, i am using a toshiba m30 with a 1.6 centrino 512 mb, external hdd 7200 rpm, is the cpu drain the same as with the firepod? if so it is good because this comination was tested as a happy marriage.

---Yes, it should be the same or less CPU drain.

[bbmozee]

FireBox saga finale: I just discovered that the recent massive hit on my Mac OS X CPU (50-99% up from a nominal 1-30%) was due to the FireBox software. Removing the Control and Mixer apps returned things back to normal. System profile logs kept showing problems with both and clued me in. I never got a response from PreSonus from an earlier problem and now am of the opinion that the FireBox isn't quite ready for prime time on the Mac. It's a promising piece - but without SPDIF capability and the currently sloppy code I'll pass on this one for now.

End of story: Returned FireBox and ponied up for the popular and proven MOTU 828 Mk2. Life is sweet again!

[lepetitmartien]

Hi all, please, inform the guys at Presonus and let them know about this thread Maybe it'll help them put their act together so that the Firebox will be up to our expectancies.

If the box is good, it's a shame the software isn't up to it.

[ArchivalAudio]

lepetitmartien
thanx! for the suggestion
I had been think about sending this link
and I just did, I sent it to:
Chad Kelly - Customer Service Manager at Presonus

hopefully they can and will address these issues

-- Ian

[GitGeezer]

For bbmozee...

Which logs specifically did you discover the Firebox verbage in? I'm probably going to return mine, and I may need some supporting documentation to do it. Very unfortunate. Running the Mixer application is required, I believe, for latency-free monitoring during overdubs. But I was unable to overdub anything in Logic Express 7 due to very slow response resulting finally in a total shutdown of the interface. Probably a Firebox issue. And since there are no drivers to update, it's a hardware/firmware problem.

[bbmozee]

Git:
Check out Apple Menu>About This Mac>More Info...System Profile>Logs.
The deal-killer for me was the inability to record 6 tracks simultaneously (as advertised). Also, I had no use for Cubase LE since I have Logic Pro 7 and Pro Tools LE.
It's a shame--I really liked the powerful headphone amp and clean audio. I was able to return it and pony up for a MOTU 828 at Guitar Center, hassle-free. I'm very glad I did. The 828 has been a pleasure to set up and use--a true workhorse that has handled everything I can throw at it. Highly recommended (and a deal for the extra money because it really works!).

[vickbabu]

I was considering the firebox, aside from the fact that it is seriously backordered, this blows. Why are the requirements so high, the FW410 req. G3. I have an 867MhzG4 and no the DualG4 recomended, and plan on running Live, is there a interface that will work well in this $range.

[ArchivalAudio]

hey
Awhile Back I did contact PreSonus
they (Rick) Said that they were looking into the problems with Logic

and I did just order one of these...
but
Now I guess I'll have to wait
they said they were still waitin for ones to comeon fromJanuary!D'OH!

hopefully
I'll get one soon
-- Ian

[twits celso]

ArchivalAudio--where are you trying to get the 'Box from? I found my local Guitar Center was best--had one in stock when online places were saying "5 week delay" and when that first 'Box proved defective, they had another in stock when I brought it back.

It may be worth a few phone calls if you live close to some gear stores.

[khvt]

I bought mine from Sweetwater. So far I like it - the only annoying thing is that sometimes - okay, most of the time it doesn't sync right away. The FAQs say to go into Audio/Midi & change the sample rate to "something different" which sends a sync signal. I wish I didn't have to do that - I bought it primarily so I could plug it in right away & get to work! if anyone has a solution, please pass it on. Thanks.

Pbook 10.3.8, Tracktion

[twits celso]

Mine sometimes does that too, with same solution (you can also change "Clock Source," not that it's any less or more of a pain).Most of the time though, if I just leave it plugged in while my 'puter is asleep, it syncs again automatically when I get back to work, so I just leave it plugged in, though that's a waste of electricity.

[ArchivalAudio]

twits celso
hey
thanx
UnfortnatelyI live about an hour to any audioshop that wouldhave this... Portland is morelike an hour n a half away... I ordered it from Cascade Media in P'Town OR, I knowthe Owner and a Good taping buddy ofmine ,I've known for 14 years now,just started working there.... I contacted Rick at Presonus,who respondeddirect to me when questioned about why they had not gotten sipemnt of units due in january....they will be receiving them in the next week! so mine is soon to come.
Cascade media is great to do business with and have always stood behind what they sell.

if youeverwant a quick reply fromPresonus I found that Rick is the guy....
I am looking forward to gettingmy Firebox and runningit very soon!

thanx

how'severyones luvk running with cubase LE that came with it???

-- Ian

[twits celso]

I've never even gotten around to opening the Cubase package. I use Logic Express--it works well with that, and you can change the sync rate from within Logic, which is nice.

I'm curious too--anyone use Cubase LE? Does it offer any advantages over similar programs?

[zorbeix]

FireBox saga finale: I just discovered that the recent massive hit on my Mac OS X CPU (50-99% up from a nominal 1-30%) was due to the FireBox software. Removing the Control and Mixer apps returned things back to normal. System profile logs kept showing problems with both and clued me in. I never got a response from PreSonus from an earlier problem and now am of the opinion that the FireBox isn't quite ready for prime time on the Mac. It's a promising piece - but without SPDIF capability and the currently sloppy code I'll pass on this one for now.

End of story: Returned FireBox and ponied up for the popular and proven MOTU 828 Mk2. Life is sweet again!

So does it means that it's the mixer who's hogging the system or the box itself (= the fact that it's pluggued to the comp)

Thx in adv.

Olivier

[ArchivalAudio]

I just got my Firebox yesterday...
so far only one mic pre seems to work... and I can not get it to be recognized in cubase..... more soon
kinda frustrated... when I did get to be able to change the driver to see the firebox...nothing happened...
more news soon

--Ian

This post has been edited by ArchivalAudio: Wed 20 Apr 2005, 05:15

[zorbeix]

I just got my Firebox yesterday...
so far only one mic pre seems to work... and I can not get it to be recognized in cubase..... more soon
kinda frustrated... when I did get to be able to change the driver to see the firebox...nothing happened...
more news soon

--Ian

What's your system?

Olivier

"I just got my Firebox yesterday...
so far only one mic pre seems to work... and I can not get it to be recognized in cubase..... more soon
kinda frustrated... when I did get to be able to change the driver to see the firebox...nothing happened...
more news soon"


What're your system specs?

Olivier

[ArchivalAudio]

Olivier,

I'm running aG4 ibook 1.2Ghz /1.25GB RAM
should handle it
waiting for a reply from presonus
got my internal mic to work in cubase but not the firebox yet
another try later on

more again soon

-- Ian

[meta22]

I've had a firebox for 2 weeks and it's been working great; I've had less problems with it than my M-Audio Firewire 410, which is a bit...touchy. I love the compactness of it as well!

G4 iBook 1ghz ram

[ArchivalAudio]

meta22
cool
tell me how you got it workin'


did you just set the audio midi set up and off you went?

thanx
--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

ok...
so
I upgraded to OS 10.3.9...... mistake!
in the Audio Midi control you can not select the SPDIF in as the clock source!
I have hundreds of DAT's to transfer and have been emailing Presonus Tech support
they are working on fixing this glitch

I am not real sure thsi thsi choice was available in 10.3.8 but it may have been
I stupidly just did an auto upgrade!

so if you're gonna do it wait!

ok
-- Ian

[zorbeix]

It's all supposed to be a java problem for which Apple as released a fix that you can fix either on their site or by auto update.

Olivier

[Jonasji]

So ArchivalAudio or meta22 what is your verdic of the sound of the firebox (excluding the spdif problems)? I am just looking for a singe audio interface with a pre-amp for a mic and a midi interface that comes with it. So should I go for it or save another year for a Motu 828 mk II ;-)

-Jonas

[meta22]

Well so far it sounds great--less cracking and poping in the audio-I've used it on my desktop and my iBook and it's been fine. (knock on wood)

[twits celso]

I've had one for about 6 weeks or so. The sound quality is good. I was just using an iMic or the built-ins before I got it; the difference is night and day.

From what I understand, the MOTU will sound better. But then again, it's twice as much $$, so that's not surprising. For $400, I'm pleased with the Firebox. I find it pretty stable. I have had some occasional situations in which, after my computer has been asleep, it either has trouble picking up the input sound of the Firebox (though the 'puter knows it's there), or, when I've been recording at 24/88 the entire system slows down, even if I quit Logic. But that still sounds a lot better than the M-Audio 410 stories I've read.

As for the clock change question in Audio/MIDI, yes you can do it in 10.3.8.

Hope this helps.

[Jubei]

Hey guys....so I just picked up a Firebox this past weekend. So far so good. The one problem i am having is not that big of a deal, but....here goes. When i simply hit the volume up/down keys on my computer keyboard, i get a strange pop and click sound. It does not happen all the time. I was using and imic as well, and never had that problem? I called presonus and the tech guy was very cool. He said it was not the box but some bug in the OS. He said i should just use the master knob on the front of the box...but that does not seem to be very convenient? Ever heard of this? (firebox or not?)

I have 30 days to really fool around and get into this thing. So far I am pretty happy. Still don't understand the deal with the software mixer? Is it better to have had this monitoring feature through hardware?

Sorry for the run on sentences! I'll post more when I can. - later

[Jonasji]

Well,
I guess every box has it problems. I had and Motu 828 before and it wasn't perfect but sounded really good. I have heard of the cracking noise of the firepod is that what you are noticing as well Jubei? Does it show up on your recorded audiofiles as well? People has said it does on the firepod.

Any one used it on a firewire chain?


Really appreciate your inputs and advice guys!


Jonas

[Jubei]

I don't think i have done enough recording to say for sure, but so far so good with the recorded audio files. I really like the sound of my vocals...nice mic pre's for this price. No this is just one of those "huh" little quirks that i guess come up. Can anyone else wih a Firebox tell me if they have heard this? Also do you still control your computers volume with the computer keyboard or the master volume knob on the box?

thanks.

This post has been edited by Jubei: Wed 27 Apr 2005, 22:50

[bobmusic]

I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but here are the instructions from Presonus for SPDIF:

Jason's connection setup for Live (from email):

First of all you need to go to Applications>Utilities>Audio Midi Setup.

Once you are in there, change the "Properties For" menu to PreSonus FireBox.

Then below that, there is a "Clock Source" menu. Change that menu to PreSonus Firebox Spdifin.

I can`t change the clock source here at all, the fields are greyed out!
The only thing i can change here is the samplerate. Can anybody help!

My Mac: G4 500 Dual, OSX 10.3.9 with Logic 7

best regards
bobmusic

[ArchivalAudio]

BOBmusic
I made the same mistake in upgraging to 10.3.9
you might try the new control pannel.
I had the same problem an heres what butch from tech support said

You used to be able to change the 'clock source' for the FireBox to SPDIF
with the Audio MIDI Setup application, so that you can get the SPDIF input
to work.

However, OS10.3.9 has this feature overlooked this functionality.

OS10.3.9 does not currently support SPDIF functionality with the FireBox.

We are addressing this issue as fast as possible.


ther is now a fireboxcontrol 1.0.3 version, and on ityoucan selectthe spdif in... or at least I could but have not had the time to try it yet myself

go here http://www.presonus.com/firebox.html

then at the bottom here
Mac OS (10.3.8 or later) - Control Panel ver 1.0.3 - updated for Mac 10.3.8 or later

It might help....

might try it later on this weekendmyself
-- Ian

[munkifunki]

(((PLEASE HELP)))

i get constant pops and clicks during playback, and even when auditioning soundbites.
playing audio with itunes while DP is in background has same problem, however when
DP is closed, there's no problem.

the reason why it must be a firebox problem and not a DP problem is that my old
tascam USB interface worked great (just couldn't do 96kHz).

also, i've noticed that projects with almost no or no plugins don't have the crazy pops and
crackles.

***i've tried TWO fireboxes (my friend and i both bought one, and before he had a chance to get set up with his, i nabbed it to test the problem). SAME PROBLEM!

[Jubei]

Hey Munkfunki.....I hear you. I now have been using the the box for a week and starting to see to many little problems. The main one is when I record my vocal track, sometimes it sounds like someone is eating a bowl of rice crispies in my mic!

so far it seems random? I have raised and lowered the buffer settings and nothing. Could this be a firewire cable, mic cable or my mac? I will call presonus on monday(tomorrow) and see what they say. Otherwise it's going back.

Did you try raising your buffer settings? Fool around it may not be the firebox.

[bobmusic]

ther is now a fireboxcontrol 1.0.3 version, and on ityoucan selectthe spdif in... or at least I could but have not had the time to try it yet myself

go here http://www.presonus.com/firebox.html

then at the bottom here
Mac OS (10.3.8 or later) - Control Panel ver 1.0.3 - updated for Mac 10.3.8 or later

It might help....

Thank you Ian!

I tried the new controlpanel 1.0.3 and after some hassle i now can record over spdif-input in Logic 7
before starting Logic, the clock must be set to internal and only change it to spdif after Logic has started. This is how it works here.
I will test the firebox more to see if the random crackel noises return and if sync remains stable.
I really like this unit and only hope, the software problems will be solved by presonus and apple.

I got a reply from presonus also and they don't recommend to use the Firebox with Tiger by now:

"We are still testing Tiger and we are not suggesting to upgrade at this time."

best regards
bobmusic

[chappy]

I'm going to guess that this is a clocking problem.
Check out your audio setup and make sure that no one is fighting for control of the input box. Clocking should be set to 'internal' unless you're using other digital devices. Check out your Audio/Midi setup before you give up.
peace,
chap

[Dreadman718]

I purchased a Firebox two weeks ago and I can't say that I am that satisfied. Yes it's a great size, but I have had weirder issues. I am running a powerbook 1.67 ghz machine with a gig of memory. At first she would studder and then I increased buffer size. Then the popping and crackling. I went and lowered track outputs and adjusted master volum on Firebox. Then I noticed when using my Reaktor sessions certain sounds would break up..UNLESS I kept the reaktor sessions track selected during playback. I sent an email to support and this is what they said: Hi,

I am not sure...

I cannot troubleshoot LOGIC very much as I do not have a copy of it to test.

I can only suggest that you setup a similar project within Cubase LE and
compare the performance between the two.

Get back to me with your results.

Now why the HELL would I trouble shoot with Cubase LE if I'm a Logic 7.1 user?

And this was my reply:
No disrespect to you... I know your job is to support Presonus products, but I run Logic on my day to day. And I don't see how me testing Cubase LE will solve issues that are coming up with a program (Logic) that is being used by a good number of individuals. If anything I think that it would help to make your product more in demand if it were more of an across the board type interface. I work with Logic 7.1 and would like the Firebox to do the same. I thought the Firebox was an interface for ALL who would need an audio interface. Didn't realize it was product specific... I never would have bought it.
Needless to say I am not satisfied....

[bobmusic]

Now why the HELL would I trouble shoot with Cubase LE if I'm a Logic 7.1 user?

Hello!

Do you use Tiger already? Presonus don't recommend to upgrade at the moment.
So far, Firebox works fine here with Logic 7.0.1 & Panther. Even spdif-in works now with new controlpanel 1.0.3.

best regards
bobmusic

[iDraw]

it was great to find this particular forum about the firebox, I was beginning to think it was my personal struggle with SPDIF that was causing my problems in trying to get sound from my DAT into Logic 7 pro. I was having a similar experience of getting sound all the way to the firebox mixer software and right on through to my laptop (in the sound input preferences, I can see the sound and it mirrors the same spikes on my DAT display - so it's coming in) but I cannot get it to play or record in Logic or SoundTrack or any other audio software.

At first I was running 10.3.9 with the new presonus control panel (1.0.3) on my main powerbook drive and, on a separate drive, I had 10.3.7 installed with just the basics (Firebox Control Panel 1.0, LogicPro 7, nothing else). On both drives, the same SPDIF cutoff at the software happened with one difference. I would get a pulsating spike of sound (different from the sound coming in from the DAT - just a crackling surge like a radio frequency of some kind) which went on for about 2 minuted and then silence.

Since it was the weekend, I waited and called Presonus Tech Support and talked with a guy named Jonathon. Very nice chap who listened and didn't give me any run around. I told him all that I had tried and also related some of the posts made here and he agreed that something didn't sound right. He said that, with the old control panel (1.0) SPDIF should be working fine in 10.3.7-10.3.8. With the new control panel (1.0.3) the Firebox SPDIF should work in both 10.3.9 AND he also said that it should work in Tiger (which contradicts an earlier post I read). I do not have Tiger installed so I will take his word for it.

What he said he would do next is set up LogicPro 7 on several different systems and try and duplicate the issues I laid out. He said it would take a day or two but he would email me the results. I will post the reply here.

[khvt]

Hi - I've been reading this post since its inception...was looking forward to the firebox. Have been using it with Tracktion. I have to say I'm not thrilled with my recordings - even simple voice-overs. I'm not sure if it's the firebox or the software. Sold my Digi001 & 002 a year ago. Now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. There's lots of hiss & the gain seems to be up way too high all of the time. I'm interested in other opinions about firebox sound. Thank you.

[vickbabu]

I just recieved mine and experienced the same "rice crispies" sound from the mic. I figured it had to do with monitoring. Haven't used the presonus mixer for monitoring, but hope that works better than Live 4. The only thing that I am not comfortable with is the requirements, seem high.
That aside, its seems solid. I purchased mine from JD Sound and it came w/ a free AT2020 Condenser mic. For my single/two track recording and live shows I hope I won't have any complaints, even if reading forums has made me a bit paranoid.

[arvidtp]

Yep - Just ordered mine. I'll share my experiences when she gets here!

[ArchivalAudio]

soa quick reply here
I had many problems wioth the CubaseLE and the firebox
and especially the SPDUIF in
when Presonus mentioned that perhapsI got a bad unit
and suggested thet I swap it for a new unit from my retailer
who was Cascade Media in Portland OR
both Frank and Jeff there were very cool about it
and I had been CC'ing Jeff with my trialsand tribulations
so they shipped me a new on on friday and it worked fine
Still have yet totry the SPDIF inbut both preampins and Line insworked great with Cubase....
my error was I hed cubase set to record in only 16 bit!
but I did manage
to recordmy friends the Ginger Hustlers "ambient"2-Rode nt5's onstage (110° ORTF) and 2 Soundboard PA in 4-track on saturday
and on Sunday at the Willemette valley Folk Fest at the UofO
I recoeded both Taarka and New Monsoon..in the field .battery power
had some sleep issues with my ibook
and I "cheated" I powered the fireboxvia a 12v lead acid battery
to provided pantom power for the mics and cause less draw on my ibook battery

more soon

-- ian

[arvidtp]

Hi - just got my 'box today! I like it.

Installation was long, complicated and difficult I just took it out of the box, plugged in the firewire, and bam! - it worked!

I first used it with iTunes. Sounded really nice playing some radiohead and Miles Davis.

Then i used it with Logic. recordings sound nice, though I havent tried it with trumpet yet. real nice - got all 6 channels in at once including SPDIF from my Mbox! (its really cool that that works - it lets me get the full 6 channels in if i need them, though the Mbox channels, because they are going through the computer, may be delayed by about 1024 samples relative to the other channels. But one can always shift tracks later, as long as nothing latency critical goes though those channels during recording. To do this, i just run Rogue Amoeba's LineIn and patch the Mbox in to the Mbox out with the Digi coreaudio driver - then set the firebox's clock source to SPDIF.) latency/the buffer settings at which things start popping and crackling seem reasonable. Of course it probably could be better, but hey - its a WHOLE lot better than that darn Mbox! The potential here makes me want a G5 again

I have not tried the included Cubase LE - don't see a need to right now as I have Logic Pro, and Tracktion if for some reason i wanted a lower-end sequencer for something Maybe I'll give it to someone who is just starting out in computer music...

The MIDI works great, however it seems to have kicked my Midiman 1x1 off the bus so the computer doesnt see anything coming into it - but that may be solved with a restart since i was switching around USB cables around earlier on today.\

The mixer app is real nice. Only weird thing was once mixer app and firebox control used like the whole CPU when launching (the mixer stopped hogging after launch, but the control did not and had to be quit for me to do anything else useful). But this only happened in one situation and I'm not sure why. I then quit logic (which was running in the background with no session open) and restarted the mixer and control apps and they worked fine - no huge CPU drain.

Physically, the box is well built as everyone says - nice and metal - color matches my powerbook blue chrome knobs are hot, as are the blue LEDs. Non-recessed Firewire ports on the back look possible a little flimsy? but maybe not.

I am hopeful that this will work out! It is such a cool box so far. But I have yet to test it with my complex and CPU intense MaxMSP patches. So soon we will see its true mettle.

[arvidtp]

Firebox - DAY 2

Well, today I did some real work with the thing. It is great to have an audio interface that you dont have to hope works 50% of the time you press the record button. The firebox seems to just work. - so far.

No more crazy CPU drain with the control/mixer software again. Dunno what that was all about that one time. But I have noticed that the +12dB settings on the control panel only seem to take effect after a restart of the computer. Is this normal? seems odd. But that's not a major problem.

It tried the firebox with some demanding MaxMSP patches - it pops and clicks a little more (at a lower CPU use) than does the internal card - but not by very much. i guess this is to be expected of any interface in this price-range due to the larger # channels and being 24 bit maybe. But after a very little optimization of my patcher, I was able to get down to 128 samples buffer with no artifacts - a very respectable latency for performance - especially one sorta off-the-wall like that patch

And - the Firebox works well with Jack - I built a buffer-looper in MaxMSP (controlled by a tilt-gamepad), ran the audio from that out to Logic via Jack and recorded it there, while listening back to the rather hefty session i was recording it in and watching the movie it was sync'd to - and this at a 128 sample buffer (as specified in Jack for the firebox - a pretty good latency for the soft-instrument playing) - all without a hitch. I'm lovin it!

So far, i would recommend the firebox for anyone who wants a good quality, low cost box that can do most anything that u throw at it without complaint. I'm sure the RMEs and Metric Halos of the world are better and get lower latency/better CPU usage, but for the price I am very happy with what I have got and I am hoping this opinion will not change unfavorably any time soon.

The next tests (for tomorrow) are the portable battery recording test (how long can i go for? does it "just work"?) and maybe the long duration recording (how many hours straight can it go without a glitch? so far I have done 1/2 hour with no problem.)

peace!

[entfred]

Hi,

I just ordered a Mac Mini with extra memory, the Presonus Firebox,
and I plan on using Garageband. I am new to recording on a
Mac (currently using Fostex VF08) and had some questions:

1. I read some of the previous posts on the Presonus Firebox.
Is this latest Mac OS going to work ok with the Firebox or am I
going to have a lot of problems just getting the Firebox to work?

2. I guess the included recording software in the Firebox will not
work with the latest Apple OS?

3. Anyone use the Mac Mini with the Firebox?

4. Does Garage band work ok with the Firebox? I have some friends
who plug directly into their Mac when recording guitar into Garageband
and I am hoping the Firebox will eliminate most, if not all of the
latency.

Thanks for any tips in getting started on using the Firebox with
a Mac Mini. I should receive the Mac Mini within a few weeks.

entfred

[arvidtp]

hey - sounds cool entfred.

1. it should! the drivers are built right into the OS and firebox is class-compliant.

2. I hear cubase LE will run under 10.4, it just will not install under 10.4 yet cause the installer must be weird.

3. no, but it should work great

4. It should! not tried it yet. The Firebox will get latency (when going through the computer) about equal to the internal card (which is actaully really good for performance/monitoring when turned down to 128 or 64 samples buffer). But with the Firbox you can monitor a no-latency dry signal to your headphones (or main outputs) without going into the computer and back out which is what causes the latency. What i do usually is monitor that direct no-latency signal into my headphones, and put a reverb on the track i am recording to that is completely wet, so then I get to hear 0 latency dry signal along with some nice inspiring reverb while I am recording (or whatever effect u want to use). Then I turn the dry back up no the reverb after i have recorded (or get rid of it sometimes)

What you really get with the Firebox is MUCH better audio quality. I have been very happy with it so far in that regard. best of luck.

As for my 3rd day of fireboxing: Took it out into the woods and recorded 52 min mono audio on just the powerbook battery using one Phantom powered condenser mic. Played some trumpet out there - the recording quality was very nice. Not one hiccup. not bad i'd say. The battery went to 0% though, so i dont think you could get any longer recording with phantom power on, though i did have to turn the screen up to full brightness sometimes to see it in the sun, though most of the time the display backlight was switched off. Energy saver was set to highest performance. One might be able to get away with reduced CPU power for just like 2-track recording. That might allow for some slightly longer unplugged sessions.

Also I am using the firebox as my system alert sound out and I have experienced none of the glitches others have referred to.

The gain for the mic pres seems weird however - it seems like they are not hot enough when not boosted but 12dB, but are too hot when boosted... oh well whatever. I mean you can get a satisfactory setting either way, its just at one extreme end of the dial or the other where the gain seems right for most stuff. But this may not be bad at all. Or i may just not have enough experience with the box yet to know where i should set levels for things.

[hahaworld]

Firebox Rox!

I have officially left ProTools in the dust. They have been historically sluggish about supporting Mac OS updates, and their software will only work with their hardware as far as I can tell. I upgraded to Tiger and bought a Firebox, and yes, it works with GarageBand and Logic. Get one! It's a solid, reliable piece of equipment.

[entfred]

What is the quality of Logic compared to your previous ProTools?
Are you using Logic Pro?
I thought ProTools was the standard, though rather expensive?

I will be using a few Shure SM57s and have a cheap condenser
mic. Has anyone used a really expensive condenser mic with
Garage band on Firebox or some other preamp? Curious to what
it would sound like with really good hardware.

Does Logic provide a lot of advantages over Garageband?
It better for a thousand bucks!

I remember Pro Tools costing quite a bit, too, and that is just
for the scaled down consumer version.

[arvidtp]

Me too! goodbye pro tools with Mbox!

Man, Logic is more powerful than Pro Tools LE on many fronts including # audio tracks, MIDI stuff, notation, effects, processor efficiency, softsynths and overall flexibility. Also its more standards compliant and less buggy/fussy about your system setup because of that.

Pro Tools does do really well - really user friendly - on the strict audio editing part and is a standard for recording studio sessions because of that, which is why i am keeping mine around despite the fact I almost always use logic now.

And i'd say logic offers a lot that Garageband doesnt!

This post has been edited by arvidtp: Fri 3 Jun 2005, 22:39

[SadPandas]

I have been using the firebox for about a week now and I really enjoy the sound and how easy it is to use. Im using it for simple tsks like recording my s.g. through the pod x.t. pro to work out some parts for some projects. The sound quality is fine for what im using it for and the design is nice. I have been wanting to update to tiger but have held out till i hear more people having success with it. Anyone still having problems with their units? Problematic units anyone ?

[ArchivalAudio]

Hi
my life has gotten busy...
My unit is or seems to ber funtctioning very good , excepttill have not tried the SPDFi option.... with my replacement unit.
I wanted to mention my battery experience, since
arvidtp said he only got about 45 minutes of recording powering 1 phantom powered mic with his powerbook and the firebox

I did want to say that when I recorded in the field my RODE NT5's Phantom powered, battery only, I got a about 3 hours of recording and my batery in my 12" ibook was at 26% when I stoped, one band played for about 50 minutes and the other about 2 hours ... in between I just closed my ibook up to put it into "sleep" mode which was for about 15 minutes. I was using cubase LE that came shipped with it, and had pre set up new projects for both bands while I was at home.
I should state that I did Power the Firebox with an external 12v Sealed Lead Acid 3.4 amp hour (powersonic) battery. this I had originally gotten for my Denecke AD-20 ? PS-s combo. This way the firebox is not being bus powered while the battery itself is quite heavy, it saves on laptop battery power.

that my latest
addition

question?
I am stiil new to laptop recording
when recording like this my ibook my screen went inot the sleep mode, it went black, at one point I freaked out and thought it had shut down, and tried to restart it, bad!
then I had to restart recording. this happened again, and I noticed I just had to use the trackpad to "wake" it up, and it seem like it was still recording , with no glitches. is that true?
I thought I had switched my ibook to Never sleep and never power down the Hard drive and screen saver off.
Can one record , glitch free, if the computer goes into sleep mode?

thanx
-- Ian

This post has been edited by ArchivalAudio: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 19:36

[arvidtp]

Thats a cool idea to power the firebox with a battery. Any special precautions you have to take when choosing/using a battery for something like this?

There are two modes of sleep: Display sleep and full sleep. Display sleep just shuts down your display, and everything else keeps running - theoretically fine for audio recording - except with some gear. Digidesign hardware/Pro Tools for instance will often crap out if display sleep activates. I have not tried display sleep with the Firbox-logic combo while recording - i am so conditioned from my Mbox to be afraid of sleep! but i assume the firebox should keep recording fine.

Full sleep shuts down everything except (to the best of my knowledge) the RAM, which is maintained in a static state. You cant record audio when this sleep goes on, as your Processor and HD are not running You can set the different timings in System Prefs > Energy Saver.

Some more comments about my Firebox experience:

I was wrong, the "firebox control" boost buttons do take effect immediately. Dunno if something was weird first time i tried. It has been giving me trouble lately with CPU usage however - sucking up like 7.5% of my CPU for no apparent reason while running in the background. But the good thing is you dont have to run the control utility all the time. You can just launch it to make the settings work and the quit it. Matter of fact i have it set to do that with an applescript whenever i log in. I hope Presonus can fix this little annoyance sometime in the future.

Also I got a loss of sync today after sleeping my powerbook with logic and Jack still running and connected to the firebox. Upon waking the firebox claimed to be in sync (blue LED) and played back fine, but input was crackly coming through the software. A trip to AudioMIDI setup with a change and change back of sample rate quickly fixed this though.

Other than that the box continues to function very well. Tried out the instrument inputs with my bass - sound great to my ears (the sound qualtiy, not the quality of the bass playing since i was playing it )

peace.

[ArchivalAudio]

arvidtp
thanx for you indepth info...always good posts!
as far as the battery thing....
SLA (sealedLead Acid) batteries are the way to go to power field units!
they are heavy= read FULLOF LEAD!
NO Memory!and can be charge at any point in the discharge process...
Precations?
well an inline fuse is always a good idea,
but if youlookat the back of the Firebox its states: "12 to 24 VDC (Volts Direct Current) or115 VAC (Volts Alternating Current) 10watts... the wall wart adaptor supplies 16 voltsAC ? go figure?
but anyway I have a POWERSONIC PS-1230 which is a 12Volt 3.4 Amphour Battery and a PowerSonic 12volt -300MA "float"charger model# PSC-12300A
the float is useful so as to not overcharge the battery, and when full voltage is reached it "floats"the charge there, not adding any extra voltage.
Power Sonic Batteries have a good reputation in the SLA catogory this is the batteries that Eco-Charge uses. Panasonic make good SLA batteries too,(i have a couple of these 6V SLA's leftover from my ol Sont D-7 DAT) but Powersonics chargers are very good too and reasonably priced.
I think I got mine both from Portable Power systems...
for my ol denecke 20bit AD20 and dual Phanton PS-2 a fewyear back....

using the SLA to power the firebox in the field help increase battery life in your laptop,as it is the same as plugging in the wall Wart that came with the unit...it is now NOT being powered via the 6-pin firewire but by the "external" power supply ...
I have not tested the Firebox with this SLA set up for duration, before degradation, but I do know
that using ths battery for the Denecke AD-20and the PS-2 Phantomsupply I caould get over 23 hour of operation Power my RODE NT5's (that appaerntly draw more current than most 48v phantom powwered mics!) before the battery dropped below normal operating voltage, which for the dencke PS-2 was like 8 volts.... I think?
the fire box is sure to be more of a power hog,but this way you can save the battery of you Power/ ibook
..

does that help?

I hope
thanx
-- Ian

This post has been edited by ArchivalAudio: Thu 16 Jun 2005, 07:24

[arvidtp]

thats cool.

Ok, so here;s the story. Getting a bit frustrated with the firebox for the 1st time. Trying to use it to perform with in MaxMSP. Seems like patches that the internal card can handle the firebox keeps popping and clicking on. I have to go from 128 samples buffer and signal vector size, to 256for both for it to work smoothly. and even then there is a click every few minutes (not bad, but there all the same). I keep getting these CPU spikes. activity monitor shows kernel_task spikes in CPU up to like 95% every once in a while while the firebox is plugged in. None when its not. Whats up? i heard something about this from someone else. They said Presonus or maybe apple claimed it was normal and should not affect operation. But it does - my pops are usually synced with such spikes, occurring about every 15 sec when at 128 samples buffer. It cant be normal for firewire audio interfaces. I dont like it for normal operation of the computer either (when crunching big files, who wants an unused audio interface hogging CPU? arrrrg

I still get pops every once in while when on 256 samps even though MaxMSP reports my CPU usage as down to about 34%!(activity monitor showed much higher, around 60-90% for MaxMSP) My internal card runs with no discernible clicks/pops at up to about 55-60% processor load in Max at 128 samps buffer normally. Its these darn CPU spikes belonging to the system that happen every once in a while with the Firebox plugged in. I tried everything i could think of to turn off, not turn on, restarted several times...

So then i tried Logic 6.4 - adding spacedesigners until it choked - i got to i think 5 and logic reported nearly maxed CPU (music have been 90-100%, but there's no numerical display in logic) but the firebox did not click or pop at all, at 128 samples buffer. What the heck? Of course it clicked (choked) when i added the 6th, but the 5th was definitely showing 90-100% usage with no pops. Is there a difference in the way that MaxMSP and Logic access a coreaudio device that makes this disparity in popping/clicking? Or is Logic's CPU meter just wussy? But no... the 6th space designer REALLY choked the machine (unresponsive for about 15 sec) so that could not be it...

This is starting to anger me - its like i can only use half the processor power i did before in MaxMSP if i still want decent latency using the Firebox. Would a MOTU or something like that be better? and RME? Cause i could (very reluctantly) i think still return the firebox until the end of the week... I really like it with logic ad stuff, but its not really cutting it in Max right now and I dont know why.

Anyone have any ideas?

This post has been edited by arvidtp: Wed 22 Jun 2005, 06:07

[entfred]

I tried changing the "optimization" settings, as shown below, but
the right click did not work. Has anyone tried this? I am using a
Microsoft Mouse.

FIREBOX CONTROL PANEL ADVANCED SETTINGS:
You can “Right Click” on the FIREBOX control panel icon to select between three
different computer optimization settings. These settings optimize the buffers and audio
streaming settings based on the speed of your processor. If you are experiencing
audio drop outs, it is recommended that you select a lower CPU setting.

I got some pops at first with the firebox hooked up to the Mac Mini,
but then they mysteriously went away.

I was able to record some guitar tracks using Garageband and
it seems to sound fine. I think the 1GB Ram in the Mac was
well worth the extra $$.

I still like using my Fostex VF08 better than a computer for
recording, but I am hoping the higher sampling rate will
ultimately give me better recording quality on the Mac, once I
get the hang of this.

Has anybody compared to quality of the Mac/Firebox recording combo
with a stand alone hard disk or Ram based recording box? From what
I read, you pay a lot for good digital to analog converters.

[twits celso]

The "right click" settings for the Firebox are PC only, not for Mac.

My Firebox sometimes hogs CPU also, but I've found that it's actually usually the Firebox Mixer software that's doing it, not the Box itself.

[khvt]

Twits,

How do you then change the software mixer to be less hoggish?

khvt

[arvidtp]

the mixer does not seem to be the problem with me. It seems the same with or without it running. I wish the mixer was the cause, then you could just quit it... and maybe Presonus could fix it in some future update... but alas the mixer seems to not be the issue for me.

but is shall do some more testing today.

This post has been edited by arvidtp: Wed 22 Jun 2005, 16:56

[tbirdwilson]

Greets

I've just tried out my Firebox for the first time. No doubt the plug and play factor on OS X is a beautiful thing. But, I'm experiencing the same odd pops and clicks as others have mentioned in these posts. I also got the "rice crispy" sound using the firebox mixer software, which really sketched me out.

I've not a had a chance to experiment with varying buffer changes yet, but I'm wondering if those who've gotten regular pops and clicks have found solutions?

Cheers,

Tbird

Powerbook G4 867, 640MB RAM, Presonus Firebox, Cubase LE, 160GB Lacie D2

[arvidtp]

OK tbird, you're in luck - here's some more of my experiences - mostly good:

Recorded some more outdoors unplugged - frog sounds at a pond. Very nice. Firebox worked great. When i got back though i thought it had crapped out cause when i listened it was all "rice crispy". Turns out it was the 'box not syncing once i got back home during playback. A trip to AudioMIDI setup to change the sample rate to 48000 then back to 44100 fixed that and made me much releaved that my recording session was not in vain.

For performances - yes i was getting lots of clicks in MaxMSP - but these were dramatically reduced when i fired up Process Wizard (great little menu extra) and niced (increased the priority of) MaxMSP all the way and decreased that of the Dock to rock-bottom. If i do this every time i perform with the firebox, it works wonders. Max is therefore more important to the machine than the CPU spikes the firebox causes. Logic does not seem to have to be told that it is most important - i think it acts the same either way, but i have not experimented that much with nicing logic, as realitme performance is not quite as critical there.

I just last night played a concert at a gallery in Provincetown with two other musicians - used my firebox at 256 samples buffer to run my electronically augmented trumpet in MaxMSP and bring in 4 channels of audio in with effects, where some of the channels were played back for realtime effects and recorded and others were just used for the 6 channel recording. We played for 39 min while also recording, and i never noticed any pops or clicks while playing or in the recording (have just done 1st listen through/mix). Because i was pushing the CPU on my powerbook, there prolly were a few clicks during the performance, but they werent noticeable in our cacophony. If they were, they were few and far between. I was very happy with the performance of my firebox. Would NEVER go back to my Mbox, although i did use it for an extra mic preamp last night - just to feed analog to the firebox's 4th input - it was not sending any audio to the computer. It works well like that The mbox might also work nicely as a doorstop with those little penguin wings... no no arvid... remember.....some people still use pro tools....you have to be compatible with them...... haha ok no more inner monologue... hope this post helps!

[primeclub]

i know this is a mac forum, but does anybody check the firebox with pc?
just wonder about latency/performance/ect.

and does someone compare it to the edirol fa-66 (same price & features)?

thanks

[vsmith1]

I've noticed that the Firebox changes the processor load, as observed in Activity Monitor, on the kernel_task from about 5% to about 25-30% when the Firebox is plugged in. Just when plugged in - irrespective of what is plugged in any of the ports on the Firebox.

Is this normal? I am running a PowerBook 12" 867MHz G4 and I'm worried about overloading my PB.

Thanks
Vince

[entfred]

Further Experiences with Mac Mini and Presonus Firebox

I have gotten a lot of use out of the Presonus Firebox with my Mac Mini.
Garageband works flawlessly except for when I get several tracks going,
the Mac Mini hard drive is too wimpy to handle it and you get this pop
up message from Garageband stating the the disk can't keep up with
the program (I forgot the text of the message).
It doesn't happen all the time, but every so often. But, if you are
recording, say, drums, guitar, bass, keyboards, vocals, you will
probably be ok. I don't know the exact no. of tracks that causes
the Mini Mac hard drive to choke, but this proves that the Mini Mac
is probably not meant for a hard core home studio.

I had these cheesy
disco loops and a drum beat going at the same time, added a guitar
track and a bass track using a keyboard. So, for
just experimenting (doing nothing serious), it sounds like even a 1.25 Mac
Mini is adequate to use for Garageband with the Firebox if you have 1GB
RAM. I suspect that less memory could cause Garageband to choke.

I also have Mini Moog V running and it works good, except the program
appears to have a blip in it every so often, like the Mac Mini is choking
on the processing of the program. But, not really sure what is causing
this. Has anyone used Mini Moog V on the Mac Mini or a Mac lap top?

Again, for experimenting, the Mac Mini works fine with Mini Moog V.
If I was going to be doing some "serious" recording, I would get one
of the high end Macs.

Next thing for me to try is to use Cubase, since I have only used
Garageband. I need to use Cubase because Mini Moog V will not
interface with Garageband, that I know of.

[brendan]

Next thing for me to try is to use Cubase, since I have only used
Garageband. I need to use Cubase because Mini Moog V will not
interface with Garageband, that I know of.

If you like GarageBand, you don't necessarily need to switch to Cubase...

You could save a lot of money by simply buying a VST-to-AU Wrapper for your VST Mini Moog V program, and keep using GarageBand.

[vsmith1]

i know this is a mac forum, but does anybody check the firebox with pc?
just wonder about latency/performance/ect.

and does someone compare it to the edirol fa-66 (same price & features)?

thanks

Yes I've also run the Firebox with a Windows XP machine - Athlon with 512MB memory - seems very nice.

I don't have anything to compare it with,other than the AudioPhile 2496 PCI card. And then that's not a good comparision.

Vince

[arvidtp]

try using jack or soundflower (both free) to get to sound of the standalone Minimoog (god bless Moog) direct into Garageband. You could record a MIDI intrument track in garageband an use that free MIDI out plugin for garageband - I think it is called midiO - to send MIDI to the Minimoog program over an internal bus (internal or IAC busses can be created in AudioMIDI Setup on the MIDI panel) Soundflower is easier probably, but i prefer jack - more options, work more consistently in my experience.

This is the kind of thing i do between logic and MaxMSP - a similar concept to rewire, but more flexible.

As for the blip, you can try increasing the buffer size (of course that also increases latency, but this is the tradeoff we all have to play with).

[vsmith1]

Yes I've also run the Firebox with a Windows XP machine - Athlon with 512MB memory - seems very nice.

I don't have anything to compare it with,other than the AudioPhile 2496 PCI card. And then that's not a good comparision.

Vince

I have resolved my issues with the Firebox - I sold my 12" PB 867MHz and bought a 1.67GHz 15" PB!

This behaves much better now, and will probably improve even more once my RAM upgrade arrives.

All I can say is that the minimum spec for my purposes was not a 3 year old PowerBook.

YMMV
Vince