Logic Pro 7 Petition, Misc Options

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Comments about:

Logic Pro 7 Petition

[_ddaproduction_]

I have logic by version 4 and i upgraded regulary. The upgrade Logic 6 to 7 is very inacessible and big and offensive to all professional users.....Sorry for my english


Marco Della Bona...Via Stradella 543 loc. Ronchi 54039, Massa....Italy
ddaproduction[no email in the forums please LPM]virgilio .it

This post has been edited by lepetitmartien: Sun 17 Oct 2004, 03:17

[Svarswami]

Logic Pro 7 includes "Waveburner for OSX"
This alone would have cost you more than $300. Besides this there are a great lot of new features and plugins that look quite promissing to me.
People upgrading from version 5 are the really lucky ones this time.
We are living in a time when software is becoming increasingly more affordable all the time, so I really don't see too much reason to be unhappy.

[Gin Devo]

Logic 7 is now "APPLE"
It's more "pro" and working very well.
I hope the support stays emagic style.

GreetZ, Gin

[lepetitmartien]

The petition is a user protest upon the fact that Apple whatever they did to Logic (nothing THAT revolutionnary it seems, no interface rework that is NEEDED, Dreadfull garageband like pain in the [MUUUUUT] site etc.) Shows some peculiar disdain to loyal customers:
- upgrade step for $$$ (it was suposed to be free)
- no "official" upgrade special path at least for late version 6 upgraders (don't tell me about the call to Apple if you bought it in the last 2 months, I'm waiting upon some official PR, not private talks for the happy few)
Have a look at what MOTU is doing… (if you forget a bunch of V4 bugs

Even if Logic 7 is a great software (we'll see if it's rock solid) and Waveburner (that not everyone needs) is included, there's a part in the confidence contract with customers that has been broken.

The petition comes from an individual in the French forums (those French (ooops I'm one well, half one…) and Macmusic.org support this initiative. A little reminder from the customers (you know, the people who pay for having a USB dongle, shipping delays, bugs for $$$ etc.), which is good.

And please, Apple, do something for the Logic site… Sigh…

(Does it show I must change of computer NOW?

[tunepoet]

I agree that Apple is not playing very ethically. I love Mac technology, but as devoted as Mac people are, you would think that Apple would not play these sneaky games. If your company is in the tank, then you can expect some shady business, but Mac is kicking financial butt, while treating the Mac faithful like we can't be trusted to keep up with the upgrade scene.

As great as Macs are, we Mac users still make many a sacrifice when using Macs. There is not nearly the software for Macs as there is for windows and what there is of it is typically more expensive. Apple should be rewarding the faithful by encouraging upgrades and purchases, not imposing them as if trying to sneak a pill into a baby’s mouth.

When does the character flaws in those run a company, turn into flaws in the products they sell? Makes me wonder. I get the feeling that the Mac guys up there in the corporate offices, don’t have much appreciation for the people who have supported them for so long. And that has to catch up somewhere. It is a professional arrogance that Mac users do not deserve to be suffered. Put the customer first, and the business will be more prosperous and productive long term. Take the customer for granted, and expect problems down the road. Does a computer designer with a hole in his head eventually design a computer with a hole in its quality?

I recently heard that the iPod has a battery that dies after 18 months, and is not replaceable. Now, I do not know if that is true, but if it is, that is what they call planned obsolescence, and is a very shady and sick way to do business. Would Honda or Mercedes sell a car that magically dies after 50 thousand miles? No! And they don’t have to, because a loyal cliental is something great companies respect. And if you make a good product and sell it in good faith, you don’t have to play games, but if you are playing games, makes me think there is trouble brewing up there in the corner office.

Mr. Jobs? Are you a genius or an opportunist? Cause the 2 ARE mutually exclusive, in my opinion. “Evil genius” is one of the lesser-appreciated oxymorons.

Blessings,
Damon

[Fields]

People keep mentioning "Private Phone-calls" made to Apple, specifically, customers who bought LP6 within the last 2 months...

ARE PEOPLE GETTING FREE UPGRADES?

I've called several times and each time they put me on hold FOREVER, then come back and say there's nothing they can do.

What's the deal????

[Dustan]

I recently heard that the iPod has a battery that dies after 18 months, and is not replaceable.

HI! Everyone..

The battery of the Ipod could die in a month or "never"..! t's very uncertain. Which makes it a drag.. in a way. But they are totally replaceble. Anyone can do, and new batteries with longer charged time than the originals are on sale on ebay for 30 bucks or less, new!

Yes, we love apple. Yes, they are going gigantic. Yes, they can be nasty.

Maybe they are already considering changing it's name to APPLESOFT !!!

[tunepoet]

Well, THAT is good news. There are some sketchy characters out there sewing erroneous information about iPod batteries. I think they should go to bed early without desert.

Blessings,
Damon

[_guest_nickoz_]

I had the delight of purchasing all separate instruments and logic platinum, only to find later that the whole lot, including space designer was included in logic pro.

I would have had to pay $600 odd Australian dollars to upgrade to logic pro, just to get space designer. I knew Logic 7 would be out, and it would be another painful upgrade price. By waiting, I have saved $600, and a cheaper upgrade to 7.

Sometimes you have to go without, and sometimes these price changes hurt (I know the new price for Logic pro 6 all included was painful for me - $4500 australian as opposed to $1900 AUD).

[_Keefus_]

Dude, no one is forcing you to update. If what you have is working for you, stick with it. But, if you want the new features badly enough, it's worth something. This notion that everything should be free, forever, is ludicrist. Companies spend big bucks developing and improving software, they should be able to profit from their investment. If you think the price is too steep, then don't upgrade. From looking at what you get, it looks like a pretty good deal to me, I can't wait to get mine. But either way, you have a choice.

[Fields]

Keefus:

you're missing the point, no one is expecting software to be free forever.

You have to agree that if you purchased software and a new version came out 10 days later, you'd EXPECT the software company to give you the upgrade for free/or cheaper than the normal $300.

This is not a ludacris claim.

[lepetitmartien]

As you asked Fields in the other thread, there's more than a hundred signatures. They have already been sent to Apple Europe director and to other destinations at Apple. Didick just announced us.

[_guest_Stephen_]

I purchased Logic Pro 6 from the Apple Store on August 20, 2004, along with a dual processor G5 and Cinema Display. Now, seven weeks later, Apple Store representatives tell me that I would have to spend another $299 to upgrade to Logic Pro 7. The contrast with the statements that adorn the Apple Store website regarding the importance of customer satisfaction as well as with the policies of competing companies such as Mark of the Unicorn and Tascam — who offer free or low cost upgrades to recent purchasers could not be more stark. In my experience, in the software industry in general, the cost of upgrades is usually correlated with the time of the purchase of the product or previous upgrade. I think Apple's policy regarding the cost of upgrades to Logic Pro 7 for recent purchasers of Logic Pro 6 is not only unconscionable, but reflects poor and shortsighted business judement. Did this policy originate or high levels or does the lack of strategic business thinking and obliviousness to the potential negative effect on customers in this market suggest that it is a decision made by someone whose focus was "not getting in trouble with the boss"? It does not, after all, require genius to observe that this policy, if maintained, is likely to inflict lasting damage on Apple's reputation among members of the community to whom Apple hopes to market Logic Pro 7.

[_canine_]

Even though I think the price for Logic 7 is very reasonable for everyone who upgraded a long time ago, I still think there should be some kind of grace period for customers unfortunate enough to buy the upgrde n the past few weeks.

A friend of mine is still waiting for his G5 2x2,5 (after over 12 weeks), but since he has already received his crossgrade from Logic PC, Apple wants him to pay full prce for the Pro 7 Update... a little strange way of doing business, I think...

so please Apple: be reasonable and offer individual customers a decent deal. Don't alienate your customers. WE will all thank you for it, by not switching over to PC/cubase...

k9

[musos]

An earlier poster wrote that for Waveburner alone, the upgrade price is worth it.

Well........

...you should read all the posts at the yahoogroups waveburner forum. Previous owners are complaining about the app not working properly (if at all), fewer features than the old OS9 version and faulty CD's !!!

I haven't received my Logic 7 update yet, so I can't comment. I'm one of those who paid for the Platinum->Pro upgrade, and must now pay the same again. I'll do it, as Logic is my music app of choice, but I'm REALLY not happy about the way that faithful paid-up users like myself get "rewarded" by Apple.

I feel that Apple could have made a small concession for upgrading from Pro6 to Pro7, and the goodwill they would have created would have been worth far more than the extra dollars they make on the current upgrade price.

Regards - Colin

[gogmagog]

......the goodwill they would have created would have been worth far more than the extra dollars they make on the current upgrade price......

apple valuing customer satisfaction over hard cash?
oh tee hee

[_Guest_]

People keep mentioning "Private Phone-calls" made to Apple, specifically, customers who bought LP6 within the last 2 months...

ARE PEOPLE GETTING FREE UPGRADES?

I've called several times and each time they put me on hold FOREVER, then come back and say there's nothing they can do.

What's the deal????

I called Emagic because I had bought Logic Pro 6 in the last week before the 7 release. Guitar Center has a "no questions asked" return policy. i returned my Logic Pro 6, paid the extra $99 and got Logic Pro 7. I appreciate that.

That said, Apple has pulled a bunch of bullshit when it comes to Audio Unit Plugins. If they don't shape the hell up, they are going to reap a massive backlash.

Apple: this is a shot across your bow. Don't fuck it up. Don't do it.

[_Guest_]

Logic Pro 7 includes "Waveburner for OSX"
This alone would have cost you more than $300. Besides this there are a great lot of new features and plugins that look quite promissing to me.
People upgrading from version 5 are the really lucky ones this time.
We are living in a time when software is becoming increasingly more affordable all the time, so I really don't see too much reason to be unhappy.

Don't insult us. Don't make an ass out of yourself. Pros don't use 'Waveburner Pro'. Never had a need for it. Never will.

[Fields]

I got a letter from an Apple Exec today, basically saying, 14 days is the cutoff.

He also had the nerve to say that customers should educate themselves on new products/pricing/features etc before purchasing products. The beginning of his letter started with how Apple doesn't preannounce any of their products. Interesting......

[lepetitmartien]

Fields, can you scan the thing for us ? If so, contact me by PM.

That's something VERY interesting. I'm shure customers will educate themselves not to believe a company who is stomping on its customers.

And yesterday passed by 50 meters Apple Europe buildings. Arrrgh!

[Fields]

Sorry mate,

I went and threw it away in a fit of madness. I even looked through the trash, but couldn't find it.

I suppose if you file an online complaint with the Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org) here in the states (which is what I did), you'll get the same letter.

Apple responded directly to BBB then, BBB sent me a copy of the letter from Apple.

The last sentence in the Apple letter went something like: "We look forward to receiving correspondence regarding the closing of this claim."

I just stepped in a big pile of SASSY!

I'm gonna try Consumer Affairs next... I'll report back, and be sure to save the letter this time

This post has been edited by Fields: Sun 17 Oct 2004, 05:20

[bakerman2033]

I couldn't help but notice two words within my daily email update regarding the LogicPro 7 Petition. They were, as if you don't already know,"Apple Petition". I long ago stopped attempts to gain any help from Apple on anything. I discovered long ago that they were completely useless, and that the warranty, Apple warranties, etc. were worthless and basically put in with the product to maintain some sort of connection to the status quo.
I abhore the way they do business, and luckily am able to find sites/forums such as this where there are dedicated Mac User's who will stop and take the time to respond to questions from others in some sort of a "pickle" so to speak. For them, and if you are one of those who do this, I extend much gratitude. For if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't even own a computer. I detest Windows, and have gotten past my rage at Apple. They really need to fix their attitudes toward those who have spent literally thousands (In this house, my best guesstimate would be roughly $20-25,000+. Every other month it seems they've got an update that throws you off kilter. 10.3.5 was a disaster, it kicked me offline until my ISP and their modem would "talk" with whatever Apple did in that upgrade.
The next upgrade I cannot, nor did I do, as, even tho they are aware of it, it will once again lock me out, until they once again send a techie out to the ISP. What a joke. Sorry for speaking out so loudly, I'll sign any petition anyone has ... wherever, whenever.

[lepetitmartien]

Thanks Fields… Please do!

Maybe someone could make the same complaint to the BBB?
(Sorry, I'm not a Logic user, and not in the States either)

We could have the letter then

I'll talk about this with the webmaster soon about what we'll do next.

[iscralatchtical]

i will certainly send a complaint into the Better Business Bureau to try to procure a copy of this letter. Once i get it, i will be sure to post it online. This new upgrade thing is outrageous to me. Anyhow, where is this petition that i could sign?

Funny coincidence, when i was on the phone with pncbank a while ago, they too gave me a "we don't support our own customers" bullshit explanation. I had ran an online sale to the wrong check card once and tried to get it reversed. They told me that check cards are credit company funded, thus they have no control over what happens once a transaction was completed...whether you had $0 in your account or not (which i did). And the lady on the phone pretty much told me, "hey, bud...credit card companies protect merchants so that is why they are accepted everywhere you go. Merchants know they will get paid..." Oh great, so that end of the business is good and dandy, but let's not think about the person carrying the card? i was fucking pissed...and this logic pro 7 upgrade thing is looking to take me to the same place.

willie

[lepetitmartien]

It's a bit gone asleep, the guy on the FR side who did it sent it really fast (maybe a bit too fast). You have his email in the news starting this thread.

Now, if the next upgrade is done the same way, WE (MM.org) will raise the hell much much more (we can, no BS). it's just some PR/code away (just more work for the team that's all).

[sahara]

Move on!!