Hi,

so we are almost done recording our first album. However i'm not content anymore with the way the drums sound, especially the snare and bass drum. Too muffled and rehearsal room like. Is there a cheap and effective way to convert the audio to midi notes so i can trigger a sampler?

Greets
Johnny

well, I am pretty sure Logic will look at audio regions and create a midi rhythm track according to the dynamics of the audio track. Melodyne will also take monophonic audio and create a midi track based on pitch and rhythm of the audio track which may not be usefull for drums.

The most common method for triggering audio files is to rig something up for the drummer such as using an Alesis DM Pro drum module and setting up triggers on the drumset then as he plays, you can record the performance into a midi sequencer and assign any drum sounds you like.

Drums are one the hardest things to record with good quality IMHO

Hi Johnny, what sequencer are you using? Synthetics right, logic has a very powerful audio>midi function, you can even create a groove template and quantise bits of your tracks to the drums if you want to do some serious vacuum packing! DP does it with a plugin thats bundled with the sequencer, MOTU only though -not VST. How about putting the loop into recycle, set slice points to track every hit then export the midi file? Logic is by far the sexiest and most flexible option. luv Holli

Hi Mr. Valium...

If you have a printer, copy & paste this post and print it out on a sheet of A4.

If you're using Logic, the best way to replace your live kick & snare track with samples is to:

1) Create a new midi track in the arrange window, ready to send midi to the midi/soft sampler/drum module of your choice.

2) Open the kick object in Logic's sample editor (make sure the kick file is a contingous file first from start to end of the song - this applies to any audio file that you're about to perform this function on, and make sure the file begins exactly from bar 1 (or where the song begins.)

3) In factory, select "audio to midi groove template" and then play around with the granulation, attack, smooth and velocity parameters until you can see only markers directly below all the attack points on the kick's waveforms in the audio file exactly where you want the midi notes in your soon to be created midi track. The main parameters to play with generally for best results are the granulation and velocity parameters. I tend not to mess with the attack and smooth parameters that much.

4) When you're satisfied all of the markers are correct below the kick's waveforms (excluding background noise from other elements on the kick track audio, such as "kit bleed" in the background - very important) hit the "use" button and watch your new midi track appear on the blank track that you allocated for it in the main arrange window. You will now have to make sure that the midi notes on the new track match the midi note in your sampler/drum module where your preferred kick sample resides.



For quantizing re-cycled loops to an existing live drum track without changing/editing the original drummer's performance...this is a cool one, people...)

1) Create an audiofile of both the kick & snare track together in mono. Make sure the file begins exactly from bar 1 (or where the song begins.) The file must be contingous from start to end of the song. The easiest way is to select both of the respective track's objects and then use the glue tool to perform a "digital mixdown." (If you wish to include the hihat pattern in the groove template, then mix this into the kick and snare audiofile too...but beware, things can get messy if you're not totally focused on what you're doing with drums.)

2) Open this combined kick & snare track in the sample editor, and in factory, select "audio to midi groove template" and then play around with the granulation, attack, smooth and velocity parameters until you can see only markers directly below all the attack points in the kick and snare waveforms exactly where you want the midi notes in the groove template that you are about to create. Again, generally you will find that the granulation and velocity parameters are all you will really need to play with.

3) When you're satisfied all of the markers are correct below the kick and snare's waveforms (excluding background noise from other elements from the kick and snare's audio, such as "kit bleed" in the background - very important) hit the "use" button and watch your new midi track appear on the blank track that you allocated for it in the main arrange window. Delete this track, you don't need it for this purpose.

Now select your recycled loop's object in the main arrange window, make sure the midi object is looped, go to "functions>sequence parameter>turn loops to real copies" and select (I have this function on the mac keyboard's return key.) Now select this track in the column and glue the looped objects together. Apply the new quantize value (from the bottom of the quantize list in the parameter box.) It should have the name you gave the original audio object that you made the groove template from - the kick and snare file's object's name.

I find that when working with a professional drummer, it is generally a shame to have to "chop his performance up into little bits and loop", just to get a tight (and sterile) performance with your loops, unless you're doing club type beats with an organic sound.

PT users may like using 'Beat Detective", but unfortunately, this too irons out a great drummer's natural feel and "homogenizes" his performance to a quantize value. It's great for drummers who are not so tight though(!). Anyhow, there is an equivalent to "Beat Detective" in Logic called "Quantize Engine", but there is no function built into PT itself that can make recycled loops follow a live drummer that I'm aware of...

Logic's way of creating quantize templates to lock your loops to a live performance is rarely understood and even more rarely implemented. It is a fantastic feature that is fiddly at first, but hopefully this post will help those that are interested go that extra mile in their rhythm production.

You don't need a plug-in though there are a couple available, just good programming skills, and of course, Logic! (I ought to be charging for this, but who cares?!...enjoy!!)

teiwaz just told you everything you need to know about how to achieve this in logic.
all i can add is that if you're using protools it's actually much easier. there's an audiosuite plug from digi called soundreplacer! pathetically easy to use, select the audio track(kick, snare, etc) you want to replace or augment, select the samples that you want to replace/augment it with, play around with the balance, threshold etc and voila!
also, if you're using cubase, polyfractus has a brilliant, FREE plug called pitch2midi that with a bit of tweaking, will do the same thing as logic's audio to midi groove templates.
which sequencer ARE you using?

Thanks damann,

I wasn't aware of pitch2midi...sounds way easier...but won't it work in Logic...? I guess not...



One other thing to note: SoundReplacer allows you to replace one sample in a drum performance at any one time, on one track via an offline edit. Very cool!



The Logic groove template method, though a bit fiddly, allows you to get an entire ReCycle loop to follow your live drummer's human feel...

I recently used this method on a track and it added a great "4th dimension" to the live drummer on the song.



Peace'n'away...

Wow, Teiwaz, i will indeed print this, just in case i become a logic user some day. I've fooled around with it in the past but i never came to understand this environment thing no matter how hard i tried. What you described sounds cool though. Thanks.

Should've said it in my first post: i use Digital Performer since i got my Motu 828. Before that it was Cubase on the pc. Holly, you said there was a plug in to do this kind of audio-midi conversion in DP. Where? I will look for it when i'm back in my "studio" tonight but could you give me some kind of hint.

thanks again

Johnny

Thanks for bringing up the problem. You reminded me that I have a Roland CP40 pitch to midi converter, forgotten amongst the last house removal boxes. I can nearly always re-record grotty audio, but if I can't.... I'm in France so too far away to help.

Just wanted to say that i've found the plugin in question. It's called "trigger" and indeed comes with DP. I will try it later and see what it does to those crazy snare rolls

Johnny