Mbox, M-audio, What!?, Need help deciding Options

[Mangrilla]

I'm new to the forum, and to recording in general. I really want to get something that I can plug into my flatscreen iMac G4 that will allow me to record vox, guitar/bass, and possibly even drums directly into my computer. I also would like this to come with tools to record/master what I do. I went to Guitar center and asked them, and they suggested the M-audio firewire 410, and a friend of mine suggested to me the Digidesign Mbox. Do you all have any suggestions maybe? I have been looking at these two systems and am worried that the M-audio doesn't come with very a very complete editing/mixing/etc. software, but really like the amount of inputs and the fact that it already has a midi solution. Any thoughts, or other suggestions, PLEASE?!!?

[Synthetic]

well... I would say go with Mbox but what system are you running? I have heard there are some issues with the mbox and 10.3 but the Mbox would be able to do all you are asking except that if you record drums.... you might need a mixer if using more than 2 mics to create a stereo submix to send to mbox. Also, you didn't say if you planned on recording this stuff all simultaneously or seperate... you will need a mixer to create a submix of everything if you want to record a band performance for example.

M-audio might come with a cheap recording app but most likely it may not suffice your needs and you might want to spend $$ on Cubase, Nuendo, Logic, etv to use with it.

[Mangrilla]

I would most likely do everything one track at a time, but have a mixer and am prepared to use that if I have to.

Also, I'm running 10.2, know of any problems it might have with that?

Okay, so M-box it's looking like so far. Thank you so much for your opinion. I guess I'll just have to get me a midi-in in addition too.

[lepetitmartien]

Upon the Mbox in Jaguar and Panther look at my pinned post in the Audio/MIDI interface forum.

WORTH reading

[Mangrilla]

Hrm, I checked that out, that's not too bad. Can you suggest anything else aht might work well, or are htose two pretty mch the best for their price range and package?

Also, does the difference between USB and Firewire affect that sound quality at all?

I'm so confused on what to pick. It's just so hard with things like this where you really don't get to try them out very well, and when it costs so much. Thank you all for your continued help!

[Mangrilla]

What about the motu 828? I found it on ebay for about 500 dollars, and am wondering if this could be what I want? Any ideas, or possibly info on the software that comes with it? Is Mbox worth it for the ProTools alone?

[lepetitmartien]

You're more likely to have troubles in USB than in Firewire. Now the Mbox does not suffer from this (the problem is in the supporting drivers see my alledged post on this). Sound quality depends of the converter mostly. But in USB you can encounter on a busy setup or with bad drivers clicks and Plops not that enjoyable.
I'm personnally very wary upon M-audio and Edirol products mostly because of the drivers (check the forums, there's already stuff there, I've had bad experiences myself but in the forums you'll have the last news, I'm following rather for afar, i'm on MOTU

Now the 828 IS cool

The software coming with is audiodesk, which is most of the Audio part of Digital Performer. DP is better (mostly you have the MIDI side), but Audiodesk is a quality tool. You can upgrade to a full DP from it too.

[Mangrilla]

So you'd recommend the 828?

Thanks for so much help, this site rocks. I never found it until today, and now I'm going to be addicted! so much good help. You rock lepetitmartien!

[Mangrilla]

Agh, I didn't realize that the 828 I saw on ebay wasn't the mkII. Should this effect my decision? ARGH! So complicated! So expensive! Such a hard decision!

[editbrain]

The 828 (first revision) or the 828mkll are both very professional choices. i would recomend them if you have the currency. on the other hand if you were looking into an mbox i would recomend what i use for two track project or mobile recording.
i use the tascam us-122 with the lastest drivers from tascam and 10.3 on my 12" powerbook. i am very happy with the quality and with reliability.

someone on this site made a very good point. you should checkout the hardware and software that people do not ask about on forums. because most of the people asking about the m-audio 410 and mobile pre are having trouble with those units and os x.

stick with the oldies. tascam and motu. the have beed around for awhile and seem to have a good sense of what is going on.

imho

[Mangrilla]

does the tascam come with any recording software?
Also, would I need preams since it appreas to not have any?

The reason that I had originally looked into the Mbox was because a friend recommended it, and when I went to Guitar Center and asked the recording people what a good option was, they suggested the firewire 410. And obviously I knew not to trust him on the spot so I looked around for further answers.

I'm worried about that 828 because there isn't much information about it on the motu website, and because I found it for a good price on Ebay, but after buying some other hardware on there, I'd really rather be able to buy something that I could at least get a little bit more information or even hands on experience with.

This post has been edited by Mangrilla: Thu 29 Jan 2004, 22:33

[lepetitmartien]

Lurk here in threads about the MOTU 828 you'll find things aplenty.

if you search use "motu 828" it'll work, not "828" alone.

[editbrain]

The Tascam has Two Mic/Line XLR, Two Guitar/Line quaters, Two Inserts for external effcects, headphone, and rca out. in the project studio i use it, and mostly to go to record dj sets, vocalists, dubs of guitar or bass. then i come home and dump the files into the mastering studio.

it has limitations like level meter are only one green signal light and one red for overload, but if you watch your apps levels (i use logic and peak audio) you will get a good recording. it has a little latency if you use your laptops hard drive, but if using a firewire 7200rpm drive you will not notice much. unless your use to recording in a multitrack studio with super pro hardware.

it is cheap 200 dollars (US) and is bus powered so that is a plus.
I use my 12" powerbook with this unit so I did not want to hassel with the driver problems of m-audio 410 with an ext. hdd.

hope this helps.

cheers and happy recording,
jeremy

[rickenbacker]

The MOTU 828 is a superb piece of equipment. I have the original version (bought secondhand) and it's never given me any trouble. When you say you can't find much information about it on the MOTU website, where are you looking? There's masses of information about it!

MOTU home page, 828 MKii link in the left-hand column, first full page of data, click Next for more data, then keep following the links if you want even more info. Is there something in particular you need to know?

It comes with AudioDesk software. I've never used it.

[Ben Up the Tree]

I also use the Tascam US-122 and like it allot. It's much cheaper than the MBox ($185 on ebay New shipped), has MIDI, but has marginal software that comes with it (Cubase for OS9). I use the US-122 with GarageBand ($49) to record vocals/guitar/stereo drums. I have been quite happy with it so far.

The US-122 also sport phantom power, but I have not recorded with a condenser microphone yet.

The latency is almost imperceptible, I use it on a 1ghz G4 Powerbook with an external 7200rpm harddrive.

Tascam US-122 features:

USB power
Two analog inputs and outputs (stereo)
24-bit (44.1 kHz or 48 kHz) input to output path
Separate source selection (MIC/LINE/INST) and gain control per channel
48V phantom power
Hi-Z input for (D.I.) instrument pickup
TRS inserts on each input channel
Balanced/unbalanced connections
Zero-latency direct monitoring
Unbalanced RCA and Headphone outputs with dedicated volume controls
MIDI input and output ports
16-channel MIDI interface

[nate d]

does the tascam come with any recording software?

I believe the Tascam us-122 comes with GigaStudio 24 and a stripped down version of Cubasis.

[Mangrilla]

Rickenbacker, I saw the info about the mkII but I figure the original had some variations and was just trying to see what exactly they were. Such as, from what I've seen, it doesn't have that LCD screen on the front so I imagine it doesn't include whatever feature that allowed (mixing, if I remember).

I like the sounds of this Tascam 122, but I actually found a 428 on amazon with another microphone for pretty cheap, so I'm going to try that and then if I fail to do that, check out the 122.

For those with the 122, do you know if you can upgrade the OS9 software to OS 10? I freakin' hate classic.

[xingu]

No, the Tascam version of Cubasis VST is OS9 only - there is no OSX version. BUT, owning it does give you an upgrade path to OSX compatible Cubase software - SX, SL, etc. I believe for a 50% discount off retail. Contact Steinberg for more details. (They require proof of purchase and all that jazz.)

[rickenbacker]

Hey, Mangrilla,

Well, I bought my 828 about three months before they announced the MKii... (sigh)

But it's still cool. The new version has more simultaneous ins and outs, I think, plus Midi and a snazzy LCD display, but as my 828 is under my desk I hardly miss that. My MT4 takes care of Midi and I only ever record 2 tracks max simultaneously, so for the secondhand price I paid, I'm more than happy. About the same as an M-Audio 410 and none of the headaches.

The US-428 is a nice bit of kit. USB, though, so you've got latency issues and a much smaller data pipe to cram your audio down. The control surface features are cool, though, and well supported in Logic.

As for the software bundled with the 428, forget it. Within a week, you'll want to move on. Also, you can't run it in Classic anyway, so unless your Mac can boot into OS 9 proper, you won't even be able to use it. So get an 828 or the 428 or the 122, whatever you decide, but you'll also need some decent software.

[Mangrilla]

Well, I ended up with the 428.
Now, what, if anything, can be done about the latency issues of USB? While recording one track at a time will I be able to get reasonably good quality?

[xingu]

There's a handy button on the 428 called the Input Monitor, which gives you a direct analog signal, bypassing the software and thus giving you "zero latency". I have a 428 and hardly ever use this feature unless tracking things at very fast tempos. The regular latency is minimal - audible, but easy enough to deal with (you should have no problem getting used to it.)

I don't know what your measure of reasonably good quality is, but assuming your input signal is of decent quality, you should be satisfied.