rackmount g4 server, perfect for musicians? Options

[damann]

i want one of these so badly.
has anyone bought one yet?
it appears to be a macmusic dream come true.
does it support os9.2?
how long do i have to wait?
will it overheat in my rack?
will my girlfriend overheat when it dosen't work?
help.

[lepetitmartien]

It uses a MacOSX server OS… (check on Apple site it's detailed)

But I haven't seen for the moment a comment of someone who brought it in different roads than the cluster one.

Is there a rich musician hacker somewhere?

[damann]

surely a different os version (standard x, classic or 9.2) can be loaded. can't servers function as regular machines ?
isn't it just the os that makes it function as a server ?
surely the hardware dosen't have to be different for it to function as a server !

[lepetitmartien]

MacOSX server is a darwin based OS like OS X,, in fact a rather similar thing to X but with no 9 and with additional tools for administration, etc.

I've never been able to dig into a server beast with this soft, and also know someone with a server using it so I don't have a clue it'll work… possible, but not sure.

Old server under 8 could use normal software, but here it's a bit different, and communication is aimed at net/system engineers not hackaholics creatives



A cluster of those things would be fun, sure

[prutulz]

clustering is a serious clue!

darwin is based on FreeBsd, and supports process clustering
this means that ones could imagine to cluster a few macs (not only servers, any mac with OSX) to get a powerful processing unit, G4 based.

adding 'processing' power to the system would just need to add a new mac, network it and run the client daemon to slave it to the main brain!

soundz like a Big VST-link?

mlan may be the key for the system...

networking macs/gear using a fast firewire network would certainly push our current MIDI and cards based sytem to the jurrassic ages;)

we're living a great transition theses days!

i hope we will know more when jaguar is released!


Vive MacOSX!

[lepetitmartien]

There were hints on the apple commercial and rather technical blablablah but you need to be much more than a graphic designer lord of the mac (if anybody see modesty here, kill it on spot like me to understand the full of their account.

They market it really for rendering need, but look only in the video/3D/science 'I need pro clusters' direction.

Crazy photoshopers, musicians could do with it too. but the clear aim is pro… and you know, these guys with guitars or playing the Mini are not tech savvy just street pro playing in the subway/underground. )

The missing links in the Digidesign needs for hardware (HD, macs) give a hint too

There something definitely crawling there.

[damann]

i guess crawling, as usual is what's (not) going on.
thanks a bundle for the input guys.
have you heard about the new steinberg developement, apparently supported by cubase sx that actually implements the networking of apparently limitless numbers of macs and/or pc's of varying spec to provide exactly what you're talking about here ?
i guess as usual i'll just have to wait...

[lepetitmartien]

That's the VST link prutulz talked about… demonstrated already but NOT SHIPED (as usual and as far as I know)

Cool yes, but I can't help myself to have the L word flashing when I think about it… LATENCY

(damann it's something for you

And I definetly like a system supported distribution of duties better… even if it confines me to a single platform (mac, maybe other BSD unixes). A bit more confident there. The marketing blockbusters of Steinberg (they are really good at that) usually shows as 'we advertise fro features that won't be here for 6-12 months, we ship them too early, bugs lurking everywhere, we forgot about important stuff -timing everyone?'

Some say that Steinberg shows the way, but usually others do almost the same at around the same time and don't believe they are god on earth.
(rant rant)

I won't mind a clustering facility system supported in DP or Logic

time will tell

[damann]

hi lepetitmartien !
yeah, it scares the pants off me the more i think about it. ;sad:
it seems that i've been an unofficial (and unpaid) bug-tester for these guys
for so long.
professional 'carrot follower'
hey, on this subject, i checked out the test site last night.
was that news item about the quad processing g5 just for fun ?
or real ?
oh shit, here i go again......

[lepetitmartien]

You're not supposed to tell all the bad jokes we make on the test site

I've got one I can be ashamed of

And we are way off topic

[damann]

you're right , i knew it as i typed...
let's declare this thread 'over' until it becomes more relevant.
i have to say, on a positive note though, that on a personal level some good discussion/information has come to light here.
thanks guys, here's to the future...
finally, protulz, as they say in america, 'i'm feeling you dude' !!!
maybe that will become apple's anacronym for mlan.

[lepetitmartien]

MLan is for Apple FAN (Firewire Audio Network if I remember ok)

(until they settle for a generic name like Firewire… say… Mlan

[damann]

ifeel, funny though.
iwalk,
shit, idigress...

[lepetitmartien]

There's an article on the rack and the soft in the Macworld Fr (so, there must be one un the american one) that came today. I'll red it by the WE. maybe there something between the press release excerpts…

[lepetitmartien]

I red the article, after all the press release stuff there was an hint that a mac could access the processing power from the rack, the rack cooperating to the processes of the actual station working under the happy fingers of a power hungry creator.

Anyway… it's not much… and no detail (does it need a specific support from apps in OSX to ensure the cooperation…)

But then, why don't they do a 10 processors machine ? It'd be simpler, maybe and less expensive.

Also the first systems are only shipping now (4000 on the bill) I think with the announccements in a fex days now, we'll have a clearer route. And a date for POWER!

Stupid they thought to make the systems accessible, and non typical server users starve about info about the main interesting spec of it.

[damann]

thanks for the info dude!
i guess i'll wait for the time being, obviously as a musician the idea of a 1u racking solution instead of the bulk of a g4 tower was the appeal.
what with so many fundamental changes around the corner i may as well just squeeze the last drop of juice out of my current machine!
480 gb of hot swappable hard drive is just so appealing though...

[lepetitmartien]

"Wait, the moto, is. Dark, the travel, to the real, power. The Force"
Yoda (well, kind of me

[CeJeRo]

I would bet money (or music hardware ) that the XServe would have no problem with running OS 9.2.2 it's really a G4 beefed up to support for networks and IT. The advantages are of course Rackmount, clustering (possibly), size and speed, DDR RAM speed. Disadvantages.... OS 9.2.2 supporting DDR RAM architecture, lack of PCI SLOTS!!! I think that last one sums it all up right there, the XServe has 2 or 3 PCI slots... pros kill for more PCI slots which is why PROTOOLS is so popular on 9600s (since ProTools doesn't rely on Processor the can cram more MIX farm cards into the machine for more power than a dual 1GHz VST based machine can muster up.) So if you really don't need PCI slots, XServe would rock, then again you acn always get a MagMA expansion chassis (www.magma.com) and add more PCI slots, so basically I just answered my own question, ok the XSERVE F*CKIN ROCKS!!!! GET IT!

-Chris-

[prutulz]

Did you heard about someone successfully running a protools on the Xserve?

It would a coooool machine if it accepts and runs a PT Mix++ inside.
Running from logic audio and taking advantage of the G4 power, would certainly be the smallest coolest mac-audio machine...

I would kill for it

[lepetitmartien]

Prutulz, does the words "MacOS X" have appeared on the Digi shedule?

(no

So one day, when Digi will kindly interest itself to it… maybe…

On my part, I'd kill for it with a price drop (so I can buy many, that is

[Francois Déchery]

i had the chance to see a xserve IRL, and i must say its so pretty

BUT the fans make an awfull loud (really loud) noise.
it woud just be impossible to make music near that machine.

Another surprise was the size: It's flat, yes, but it's so deep!!!! : Depth: 28 inches (71.1 cm)
I've never seen any deeper rack before xServe
(you would have to buy special-deep racks to fit it in.)
this photo shows the depth:
http://www.apple.com/xserve/specs.html

BTW I still don't konw if it works with OS9.

Here is my dream machine if used for music...
http://www.apple.com/xserve/
(right picture)

[lepetitmartien]

i had the chance to see a xserve IRL, and i must say its so pretty  :rolleyes:  :)  :)

you… you… YOU… (frantic madness)

BUT the fans make an awfull loud (really loud) noise.
it woud just be impossible to make music near that machine.

Quite normal, it's for old timers rock'n roll, it's written in the ads (Rack'n ROLL

In heavy metal, nobody hear you scream

BTW I still don't konw if it works with OS9.

Maybe, buit the most important feature needs X, the cluster!

Here is my dream machine if used for music...
http://www.apple.com/xserve/
(right picture)

I don't know where to put it, it won't pass thru the door room BUT I DON't CARE I WANT ONE

BTW, the screen is soooooooo tiny you can't see it

more seriously, the noise issue can maybe be cured (different speed modulate fan, plenty of air around it…) but the cluster thing doesn't need to be where you work behind you Neumann (ooops I've said the N word

[BTW Steve, change my basket from 10 G5 2 AGP 6 PCI to 10 2G5 Xserve that'll do ]

[damann]

lepetitmartien, sometimes i think you should be a professional comedian.
what? a monitor smaller than the one that comes free with g4's?
soifs' comments were very sensible, and welcome, this machine is looking worse by the minute, too "deep" for me!
"fan noise" has ceased to be an issue for a long time now (monitor/keyboard extenders), 1u rackmounting remains, on paper, a "perfect solution for musicians".
"clustering" remains something steinberg want us to get excited about.
i'll listen to apple before steinberg anyday!
oh yes, and in MANY years to come, neumann vintage valve mics will remain "iconic", to forever be "modelled" and "referenced", indeed, "revered".
peace to all, keep it coming, here's to a rackmounting future...

[lepetitmartien]

lepetitmartien, sometimes i think you should be a professional comedian.

Actually (I know it's baaaaaaaaaad english) I work on little analog gizmos for torture audio out of synths… soon to be available, but I'm a graphic designer… really too shy (yes I'm shy! Believe it or not) to be a comedian.

what? a monitor smaller than the one that comes free with g4's?

There's no screen on these racks… that's what I was having fun of, for once, we won't have rants upon "you can't edit on the LCD of this rack, just too small etc etc"

too "deep" for me!

not really an issue… a big deep rack… away (noise, the issue!)

"clustering" remains something steinberg want us to get excited about.
i'll listen to apple before steinberg anyday!

Me too, just because as it's system level (hope I'm not saying something to be killed spot on by psychic developers it'll be just NEAT.

oh yes, and in MANY years to come, neumann vintage valve mics will remain "iconic", to forever be "modelled" and "referenced", indeed, "revered".

I've given yesterday a link to héral to drool on… with… studio porn (Neumanns naked!

More seriously (can I?) I talked a bit with guys for F…E that makes mostly pro racks (pre, processing…) in Frankfürt. Their belief was that all studio stuff save pre are going to be DSP soon (a few years). Imagine clusters iin studios ? That's their use.

But I still think we'll miss the big knobs/build like a tank (or not)/check that oldy that can't be serviced anymore but is f… great. And it'll be too easy… with presets…

But on computer side. great!

And there will be some place for Schoeps and co FAR from the evil fans.

well enough analogue ranting I'm OT partly (Moderation Day today

[Synthetik]

The Rack Mount server really interests me. Besides for the rack mountedness. It runns OS X Server. I have 4 Macs networked in my studio and with the improvments with OS 10.2 a netwrkers dream. I can't want for OS 10.2 Server.

[lepetitmartien]

I think the server version is already here (2-3 weeks already in fact…)

Check it…

[damann]

hi lepetitmartien and everybody else!!!
LPM, your humour is always a great reason to keep returning to these forums.
this post is really to let everybody know that the new SOS has a very interesting article on the g4 rack beasty. this can be read on their site by non-subscribers (how very kind), and they promise to be following this through over the next few issues.
they seem extremely confident about its useability re the macmusic community, and say they're going to be reviewing it v.soon.
oh yeah, and LPM (do you mind this abbreviation?), the comments by your chums in frankfurt are music to my ears. i sold all the "heavy metal" in my studio.
all i've kept is my neumann and akg mics, my neve mic pre's and my 1176 compressors. these collectively are my "front end", everything else is DSP. logic is my desk, tape machine, outboard fx, and instruments!!!
f^*k "big knobs", i read my "studio porn" on LCD.
cheers everybody, i'll be back soon...

[lepetitmartien]

SOS arrived this very morning I saw the article but haven't found the time to devour it.

BTW the central heating bill of your studio will rise getting that virtual

[damann]

i'm thinking of replacing my central heating with a rack of akai samplers.
i can cook my food on them as well!
summers will never be the same again, slaving over a hot sampler...

[rickenbacker]

For a first-hand user's impressions of the new rackmount server, see the UK MacUser magazine letters page this issue (vol 18, no 15). Key quote: "It was finally switched on. What a noise! It sounded like a Boeing 737 on idle...it's so loud we can't work".

[lepetitmartien]

Rickenbacker , what did you say ? I can't hear you !

[Synthetik]

I am lucky enough to have a friend that is a System engineer in Bloomington MN. I met up with him the day before the unvailing of 10.2, he was going around to companies and showing them why they should use a mac server set up over a pc one. well anyway he had the server in his car with 10.2 and he brought it in and showed me all the super cool things about 10.2 and also just how smooth the Xserver really works. I think the last time I felt like that was when I met my girl friend.

[deleted]

Sorry, but any *BSD or Linux (on an x86 architecure) is far better and secure than 10.2... Yet... :-)
Your friend is cool, but anarchic ;-)

Bye.

[Synthetik]

Oh no doubt, I know I can get a Linux or unix system to be more powerful, But this takes careful work, and what I see as fun about OS10.2 is more as an OS and not a server.
But the server is pretty dawg gone cool