Beginner on Powerbook Options

[musoman88]

Hi all. I need some serious help in making some music on my Powerbook. Can I use the input in the back (I have a G3 400, 192Mb ram)? I have a USB Midi converter (Steinberg), but don't have a USB audio unit (ie roland UA-3). I was thinking of downloading Pro-Tools Free, is this a good place to start? I just need to make demos, I'm not recording pro CDs (yet). I am totally confused by all the software choices there is out there. Is there anyone out there who works on a G3 Powerbook who can guide me? I'm near Toronto, Canada, and I'm used to recording with MIDI equipment. Audio on the computer is another question. HEEEEELP! Thanks to all........mark

[jq]

Yo Musoman 88,

I have a PB G3 (400 Pismo).
Like you I have a midi set up but i have just finished an album which I mastered on the PB (using Cubase VST). The sound in port is good enough (although spec heads think a pc card or audio interface such as Tascam USB or Pocket VX are better). I've played my master to professional producers and they think it's good quality.
I record 'live' into the mac from the midi studio (via the sound in) then mess with the audio. It seems to work fine.
I would be very careful if buying a usb audio unit as there are issues with the low bandwidth of usb -Firewire sounds better but costs a lot more ($700!!).
Pro tools Free would be a good place to start , or cubase/logic if your already using them will be sufficient.

I am on a powerbook g3 with 233mhz 160 ram running 8.5 ithink that's all I will need if i use cakewalk metro 5. I wanna run my casio into my mac what do I need?? jq said the sound in port is fine and I think he is right I don't need expensive sound cards, BECAUSE cubase and logic and cakewalk produce cd quality sound, and my regular music discs (madonna, king crimson, santana etc.) sound fine listening to music on the computer as is. So what do I need besides a midi interface and cable? I plan to do no vocals or live audio with my sequencer tracks so there must be a cheap set-up for me.

[jq]

I don't know anything about cakewalk but if it deals with audio you have everything you need....
being midi sequencer+/audio program, midi interface for keyboards...

If you want better sound input the iMic from griffin technology is good and very cheap ($35) and undoubtedly superior to mac sound in, but it is USB only. However if you are sampling from CDs then ripping them using Sound Jam or similar is even better as you keep it digital.
Finally all you need is inspiration!

[abbie]

Hi, Guess I'm not a spec-head because I find the audio in works really well. I am not sure, however, whether you want to record your keyboard as audio, or as midi tracks. If it's for audio, you probably have all you need unless you need a mixer to boost the sound. The iMic sounds good too but I have heard that it doesn't work with virtual memory turned off which is required by some audio recording programs. If it's midi tracks, you will need a USB interface such as the Midisport which also requires you be be at OS8.6 (available as a download from Apple).

[jq]

It is not a pre requisite for virtual memory to be on for the imic to work -but if you have little ram to keep applications happy then you may have to... It may cause problems with audio, but Cubase works with virtual memory although it is not recommended.
Sound in is fine but imic gives mic level in, as well as line in, unlike sound in. The difference in sound level is quite noticeable.... so where sound in is fine imic is far better, brighter, louder, clearer, (insert superlatives here)...

[abbie]

Maybe we are straying a bit off the topic, but thanks, jq, for clearing up the Imic mystery for me. Yes, this does sound good, especially if one does not have audio jacks on their computer, but I have been using a mixer into the audio in to get the right levels etc. and it works well since I also use the mixer to monitor what I have already recorded with what I am currently recording, thus bypassing a potential latency problem.

My conclusion from all this would be to get Pro-tools free, have lots of RAM (at least 128M), get an iMic (unless you already own a mixer), and a USB/Midi interface such as a Midisport for sequencing.

[jq]

just to clear it up...
my point is more to do with the analogue-digital convertors that are superior to the mac sound in. Regardless of the mixer input.
But having said that... sound in will do, but for the small price of $35 you will get better results.
don't take my word for it try this link for a review -it gets a 5 mice rating:
http://www.macuser.co.uk/guest/php3/openfr...w.php3?id=35434

Thanks to abbie and jq you guys are on the money! Wow! So you are saying to use the imic to record on the macintosh microphone all my vocals or guitar then mix it onto the sequencer tracks?? Ohh baby! This is gonna be more fun than I thought. So I can do several more vocals and mix them as background too into the midi tracks if I have a program like pro tools free or cubase etc? I think cakewalk metro 5 will let me mix live audio in with the midi tracks. So am I getting this correct? All I need is the macintosh microphone?

Well tell me this guys..and this may sound dumb but I never did it before... how does the sound go back out of the comptuter to record my music midi tracks onto my boom box cassette player or to hear it out of my boom box stereo. I don't have a cd burner nor can I afford to pay for one nor do i need one. I want to record onto and pump it all out of my stereo. Thanks!

[musoman88]

Thanks, abbie & jq, for clearing up a few things for me. I've got a mixer (Mackie 1402), and heaps of ram (192), all I need to do is make a software decision and get on with it. I'm going to look into iMic, so thanks for that tip jq. Q: I've got a very basic version of Toast with a LaCie CD writer I recently purchased. I can copy CD's, but that's all. I can't shuffle tracks, or manipulate MP3 files (i.e. record a track or two without 'Finishing', putting a couple more tracks from another CD, or music file on it and so on). Is there an upgrade for this, or other software I need? I know this is a basic question for some of you, but what the hey, I'm a beginner.... Thanks....

Sampling then ripping from cd's?? jq please, what does that mean? i am a beginner on a G3 Powerbook laptop with 160 mb ram/ running mac os8.5 and with a single scsi port. Tell me in dummies terms how i can cheaply record vocals into my midi/audio sequencer programs multi-tracks without a sound card and without a usb port. i'd obviously love imic from griffin tech but...

please someone.

[musoman88]

Hi James. I can put a CD in the CD tray in my Powerbook. Then through my USB port I can copy that CD, with the aid of 'Toast', on a blank CDR in the tray of my LaCie CD writer. But that's all I can do. Without being off topic again, the 1/8th inch input plug in the back of the PB is stereo, so you need a mixer to plug your mic cable into. Then from the output of that mixer, into the input on your computer. Do you have an input? If so, it's probably 1/8ths inch stereo plug, and you'll need adapter(s) to go from two 1/4 plugs to one 1/8th stereo plug. A decent little mixer is cheap - check out Behringer - and valuable to controlling all the inputs into your computer. From there, hit record on an assigned audio track in your sequencer, and go nuts... m

Thanks Musoman it is 1/8 you are correct and I already have the little adaptors to go from 1/4 to 1/8. I will run the mic mixer into that huh? It's all just a routing thing i am realizing, I mean I could also run my sequences back out via MIDI thru the casio into my boombox and record my vocal in the kareoke function on the boombox. But it's better to run a mic in the computer so i can do vocal overdubs and background vocals. I will look for a solid mic/mixer with 1/4. And if that puts vocals in onto the audio in Cakewalk I am done.

Now how can I get sound to go out to my box from the powerbook? How can it be hooked up to the boombox? I would prefer to play my sequences with the vocals and backing vocals completed out through my home stereo. It's more notes and tracks than the casio will manage if running it all thru the casio into the stereo. I'd rather run all my cakewalk audio/midi tracks out of the computer from the sequencer into my home stereo. Now would be SLAMMIN'! But I didn't see in the G3 manual how the powerbook can feed sound out to a stereo system.

Wait a minute, now i'm thinking how can sound come out and go in at the same time? Using the microphone input for the mic can sound still be heard? If the singer has headphones on listening thru the headphone input and the mic is in the mic input can the singer hear the sequencer tracks? And are you sure?

Anybody please.
Thanks.

[abbie]

I don't know how this would work with an iMic. Some recording software packages allow you to route your input to the output, but the problem with this is that you might have a latency problem (i.e. delay) which makes this process useless.
I get around this problem by using my mixer to monitor what I am recording as well as monitor what is already recorded on the Mac.

Specifically I am using an old 4 track portastudio as a mixer. My mic goes into one track of the mixer and the output from my mac goes into another track. So that I don't re-record what comes from the mac and I monitor in mono and pan one track to stereo left and the other to stereo right. This method poses a problem, however, if one wishes to record a stereo instrument.

Another way of doing this which is better if your mixer allows it is to use the auxiliary out of your mixer to monitor. This is more complicated to explain and if it is of interest let me know.

[musoman88]

It's best to use headphones when recording with a mic anyway, but I monitor my computer through my mixer, and I use a submixer for inputting - 2 mics and 2 stereo lines. As long as I turn the submixer down during listening back, no problem. This way I can mix the stereo audio output with the MIDI instruments on my main mixer and route that signal to my headphones or reference amp & speakers. The 'tape out' on my Mackie 1402 allows me to 'master' things to my Mini Disc recorder. Aux outs are very handy for monitoring as well. m

That's very interesting. I feel I need to investigate that. Thank you Abbie. I
like that idea of running the mac sound output into the mixer and the mic I GUESS I NEED A line level mic to run into the mixer, and the singer plugs into the mixer and the mixer sends the macintosh output to a boom box. I assume is also possible? And all without any sound card? and
BEAR IN MIND I DO NOT HAVE USB I HAVE A SCSI PORT. A SCUZZY PORT. For my older MAC g3 NOT G4.

That's very interesting. I feel I need to investigate that. Thank you Abbie. I
like that idea of running the mac sound output into the mixer and the mic I GUESS I NEED A line level mic to run into the mixer, and the singer plugs into the mixer and the mixer sends the macintosh output to a boom box. I assume is also possible? And all without any sound card? and
BEAR IN MIND I DO NOT HAVE USB I HAVE A SCSI PORT. A SCUZZY PORT. For my older MAC g3 NOT G4.

Thanks again buddy..er, Musoman. ;-) I may be on my way to beautiful music time soon guys! I need a mixer to control the flow of input and output. Happydays~!! Yea no soundcards!!! I hate 'em when I plan to do ALL MIDI with NO AUDIO but the singer. Why pay $700 for a PCMCIA? I am on a scsi port mac so there is no soundcard I can afford. Keep the reply's and info coming.

[abbie]

uh, looks like I missed an important point here - James, if you don't have a sound card what is it that you are monitoring from you Mac? Are you just using your mac for midi sequencing? Musoman, the sub-mixer sounds like a good idea but I use the aux out of my mixer to monitor to an external amp so that I can record and monitor in stereo. Also, it was mentioned earlier that the iMic records a much better sound. Does it make sense to run my mixer output through an iMic instead of using the audio in port or should I just leave well enough alone?

YES ONLY MIDI SEQUENCING. ON A POWERBOOK WITH NO USB PORT. BUT I WANT TO DO VOCALS to put with THE MIDI SEQUENCER TRACKS AND SINCE the seuencer HAS AUDIO CAPABILITY (it is Metro 5 by Cakewalk.) I FIGURE I CAN SOMEHOW DO THIS. Thanks Abbie NOW WHAT DO I DO? I HAVE NO SOUNDCARD and cannot afford it. I will never record a Live band or real instruments and I do not want to. So CAN'T I RUN THE MICROPHONE RIGHT INTO MY COMPUTER? IT HAS AN EXTERNAL MIC 1/8' INPUT. BUT HOW WILL MY SINGER HEAR THE OUTPUT FROM THE COMPUTER? CAN IT DO BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY? I LIKE Musoman's idea for ROUTING THE MIC THRU A MIXER so I CAN BOOST THE LINE LEVEL AND EQ IT A LITTLE. And THEN SEND THE SOUND OF MY MIDI TRACKS OUT OF THE COMPUTER OUTPUT INTO THE MIXER TO MONITOR BOTH AND IT SENDS MY MIDI TRACKS OUTPUT INTO MY BOOM BOX I CAN TAPE RECORD BOTH ON THERE AFTER THE VOCALS ARE RECORDED ONTO THE SEQUENCER'S AUDIO PART. BUT IS THIS AT ALL FEASIBLE WITHOUT A SOUNDCARD OR (usb) IMIC.

[abbie]

Someone out there give me a cyber-slap if I am wrong, but to the best of my knowledge you can't do any audio without a sound card. The fact that you have audio jacks on your computer implies that there should be a sound card, however, unless someone took it out!!!???

No. They are not jacks, it's a 1/8' external microphone input and 1/8' macintosh sound output. Used to hook up little external speakers. Can I use these to record vocals and onto my MIDI tracks? And to run the sound out to a mixer going to my boom box to taperecord everything? WITHOUT A SOUNDCARD!! I WANT NO OTHER AUDIO BUT A VOCAL.

anyone??

[abbie]

They are too jacks! 'Synthetic' if you are out there help me on this one - sounds like James is getting tired of my opinion! Speaking of which, it is my opinion that you won't getting anything but beeps (if that) out of your little external speakers unless you already have a sound card in which case the answer is 'yes' - you should be able to record your vocals on your computer and mix it, if you choose, onto another recording device such as a boombox without having to upgrade your sound card.

Finally found it! I see now that almost all the info for a powerbook owner is online at the Apple website and is not in the manuals that come with the thing.

http://gemma.apple.com/techpubs/mac/Sound/...d/Sound-18.html

You are correct Abbie and thank YOU,I get frustrated with all this I just wanna play music! LOL.
But you win they ARE jacks. Inputs or jacks if you want to call it that, and it is indeed on there because there is a sound manager and sound card inside all G3'S no matter which one you have.

It is a much better one in G4's with FIREWRE and USB ports and the imic and all but even without those things I can run an external mic right into the powerbook and it will record those vocals. YEA!

And it will convert analog to digital. Now how my singer will hear the midi tracks I don't know I haven't read yet or figured that out yet, (perhaps a mixer is needed) but I need to run my tracks out of the computer into the boom box TO PUMP BASS, EQ BALANCE AND RECORD ONTO HIGH BIAS CASSETTES. But I will need a Radioshack extension cord with stereo line inputs BUT (big 'but' here) BUT it has to have a 1/4'' jack on the other end to run out of the powerbook 1/8' output. Like i said earlier i have the 1/8 to 1/4 adaptors so no problem there if i can find a cord like that; stereo outs and 1/4' input plug on the other end.

My built-in sound manager even lets me boost and eq the mic signal before converting it into digital. Mac's are actually always superior to pc's for multimedia and music applications.
I should have realized I mght be o.k. without anything costly needed. Since I am atleast talking G3 here folks. LOL. Just get me a midiman serial (printer port) interface and I'm jammin'! :-)

I still like Musoman's idea of getting a small mixer to monitor and eq and route things the way I want.... to record the mic in and sound out WITH A LITTLE MIXER AS A GO BETWEEN, just helps each path both ways, to record the vocals in, and to record it all out onto the boom box.

[abbie]

James, Things are looking up here, sounds like you are almost where you need to be. Here are some random thoughts:

The cables (1/8' to stereo rca) are a standard and cheap item at Radio Shack. You, of course will need two cables.

You will need a mixer to monitor your midi instruments (unless you choose to record them on your hard drive).

The vocalist will have headphones plugged into the mixer which will allow him to hear himself as well as the midi instruments while he is recording.

As far as the mixer is concerned, a simple four track should be enough depending on the number of midi instruments you use and whether they are stereo instruments as well (on second thought you may need an 8 track). As far as the iMic is concerned, my retailer told me that it does not significantly improve the recording quality compared to the audio inputs that you already have though it was mentioned earlier in this stream that it does. As for myself I use the audio inputs on my iMac (also a G3) which I feel gives excellent sound quality but then it is possible that different Macs have varying digital/analogue conversion capabilities.

Bonne chance...