Pro Tools Or Cubase?, or anyother one?? Options

[slowintrepid]

Hows it goin. I'm required to get a pro tools equipped power book with an M-Box for school. I'm not too familiar with the Pro Tools interface (used for a little kinda confusing) I am a Fan of the Cubase interface however and I am a little more familiar with it.

I will have Pro Tools LE no matter what. but if I go out and buy Cubase would I be throwing my money away. I know that Pro Tools is considered "the industry standard". Does anyone have any opinions about these two programs??

(and what about Logic I've never even touched a systen with logic and I know nothing about it's capabilities)

*edit*

oh yeah I should also tell you that I am goin to school for Music Production and engineering / Music Synthesis. which means that I will be doing alot of Live audio. as well as Midi (I have to have almost every NI suite) so I need good audio and good midi I think

This post has been edited by slowintrepid: Wed 21 Jan 2004, 08:10

[rickenbacker]

If you're going to buy the Mbox and get Pro Tools LE anyway, I wouldn't bother spending more money on another app just yet.

Still, if you actually ARE made of money...

I'd simply say what I said in another post today: in OS X, Cubase looks nicer, but Logic is better.

Plus I think the Logic/Pro Tools combination is a common one in pro studios, so it might help to be familar with both. Engineers use the audio and hardware side of Pro Tools with the Midi and front end of Logic.

If you need good audio and midi, Logic probably has the best of both worlds. Pro Tools Midi has got better in verison 6, though.

[slowintrepid]

yeah I heard that pro tools is slightly lacking when it comes to Midi.

Just how exactly is protools lacking in the midi section??

to me it seems like there isn't much to have or miss.

[rickenbacker]

The difference between a hottie Midi app and a poorly equipped one is generally all the editing/quantising/tweaking features one has that the other doesn't. All sequencers can handle Midi data - some just allow you to do a whole lot more with it afterwards.

I don't know the exact details of Pro Tools' Midi shortfall - it's just something a lot of experienced users report. Those same experienced users seem happier with v6. But if you don't do all that much work with Midi, it'll probably never bother you.

[slowintrepid]

Ok well I'm definitly gonna be using alot of Midi.

So if people are happier with verison 6 of pro tools does that mean it's the current version???

[vape]

dude if u go to their web site they will ship u a DVD with the 002 and pro tools LE, and some stuff on version 6, its a small movie that's very well done. check it out.

This post has been edited by vape: Tue 27 Jan 2004, 04:28

[arvidtp]

I use pro tools alot. doesn't sound like you are a pro tools kinda guy. I'm not really either I have come to realize unfortunately. From what I have read, Logic sounds like my kind of software for composition. I wish there was a demo available. For Live things I forgo a sequencer and use MaxMSP!

[dixiechicken]

For us who used to use Opcode:s sequencers Vision & StudioVision -
Motu:s Digital Performer 4.12 fits the bill nicely.
It's midi implementation is great.

DP4 is a Mac OS-X only application.

Cheers: Dixiechicken

[gdoubleyou]

You didn't say what hardware you have, minimum requirements for SX2 G4/867MHz.
Dual 1.2 recommended. It choked my 1GHz powerbook and was unuseable, moved my license to PC where performance is 200% better.

Also be aware SX is a totally different app from CubaseVST, totally different interface.

I also own DP4 and Logic6, they are much more CPU effecient and will runquite well on an ancient G4/400.

[zelen0]

I have a G4 350 that I'm not using, how well will that run Logic 6 in OS X?

I thought it would be pretty bad, would it? Maybe I should try it out...

[gdoubleyou]

It should be close to the performance I get on my ancient G4/400.

I'm doing sessions of 32-48 tracks with Logic6. That is with liberal use of the "Freeze" function that frees up CPU.

Also using an external audio drive.

[zelen0]

What Logic needs is a feature that Cool Edit Pro had back in 1999....

"AUTO FREEZE".

So that while you're doing nothing, it's auto freezing stuff, so you as a user don't have to worry about freezing tracks, and as you make changes, it auto unfreezes sections and re-freezes them..

On the Fly freezing.. they could call it "Icing" a new feature.

I loved that feature... I could mix 64 audio tracks on a 486 DX-100.. and not worry about anything.. it would "auto render" my audio and effects and all of that...

Now THAT would be wicked. It's 2004, why doesn't software have that feature today?!!?? ARRGHHHH

[arvidtp]

agreed! Auto freeze. I was just thinking about that the other day and if there is a reason it didn't exist in the audio world to my knowledge.

Cause there is a lot of downltime in computer recording - setting up mics, tweaking effects/patches, DECIDING wHat to DO, you know. Why not? iMovie does it! - As long as you could turn it off if you wanted.
-Arvid

[fingers]

Try pro tools - your getting it anyway.

If it's not for you then I would swing towards Logic.

MacIDOL Mac Music Collective

[cruiserman]

Pro Tools V 6.4 is the very latest and the Apple OSX version is brilliant. Midi has everyting and more than I need and as far as Audio goes, you can't beat it.

However, Everytime you upgrade your Apple OS using the update software feature, you can guarantee there will!! be a problem. so be careful with those OS updates - if it ain't broke leave it as it is!!

Logic Pro, is another story, and I am seriuosly thinking of getting that soon, just take a look at the plugins and power of what you get, it's superb!!!

SO, if you're serious about working as a pro in the music industry get BOTH. But ... one step at a time, Pro Tools is so easy to use, it's just so CPU hungry, unless you are blessed with an HD system with all of their powercore cards etc, then you'll be flying .. one day ...

M

This post has been edited by cruiserman: Sun 9 May 2004, 19:55

[intunetown]

I'm on my 3rd sequencer and here's what I've learned so far:
It's best to have the one that suits your computer - Mac or PC. Steinberg is a PC first company - meaning that if you run it on a Mac you can expect to always be a step behind the PC guys in terms of stability and bug fixes. Steinberg's reputation for poor customer service is legendary. (see their forums). Still, it is very sophisticated software. For example, you can quantize a group of notes and then days later unquantize one note in the middle of the group, without effecting any of the others. That is an incredible feature.
Logic and DP are Mac based. Not sure about Pro Tools. Historically Pro Tools has a reputation as an audio app, not a midi one. Logic is highly regarded, better than DP in CPU economy - and now that Apple has it - incredibly expensive.
DP is a smaller company, somewhat slow to keep up with the marketplace (AU and virtual instruments) - but runs really smoothly on a Mac and has quality customer service.
There are general statements, of course, based on my own experiences and opinions.

[Andrew Mehrtens]

I use Pro Tools when I am called in as a contract teacher for a local university because they use 001 kits and I use Logic in my own studio doing audio post and music. Both are great. If you can,, get Logic Pro for its plug-ins. Get used to both. If you don't have the money yet, stick with your Mbox and don't worry. PTLE is not really that LE. Stupid putting the LE in there really. Perhaps ProTools System vs ProTools TDM may be a better way to think of it.

But, I you can work CuBase, you'll find ProTools a snap within your first ten minutes. If you've never used Logic before, go onto Apple's Pro site and hit the Logic pages and look for the Quick Tour QT clips. You'll have it sussed in minutes!

A

[Dasa Soul]

THE APPLE PRO pages for LOGIC QT tour? i went to APPLE PRO , and could not find , anything on logic , PLZ help !!!! thanks ALOHA !!!!!

[pdgood]

To Andrew or anyone that knows Protools:
What is the difference between Protools and Protools TDM anyway? (other than price). I've never understood what that's about.

[Andrew Mehrtens]

ProTools LE is CPU driven. It relies on your computer's processor to do all the work. With computers now (such as the G4 and G5) it is a snap. Back when we were all on 286, 386 and 486 machines and small slow hard drives, ProTools was a dream because it used DSP cards to do all the work and ProTools used TDM technology.

TDM is Time Division Multiplexing. You'll find lots of information on that type of thing in the telecommunications field. If you are a comms tech you work with Frequency division and time division multiplexing. ProTools uses TDM and custom hardware to run it so your computer acts really as a conduit to your controllers and graphical display.

Logic Pro allows you to use Digidesign's TDM hardware technology and DSP cards including HD, so you see a bunch of top studios with ProTools TDM and Logic for the strengths of each.

Probably a hideous generalisation, but ProTools LE and MBox or 001 or 002 is a great start, but TDM is BIG GRUNT. TDM reduces latency in monitoring and allows you to record an enormous number of live inputs at once without a blink of a delay. Logic on its own with a plugin or two may give you a bit of a delay due to its full reliance on your CPU.

HOWEVER, if you run TDM hardware, Logic is a perfectly happy camper - and if you are primarily using software instruments and MIDI, Logic is stunning.

Personally I think ProTools strength is recording lots of live mic/line inputs, and Logic's is its MIDI/Sampling/Software Instruments.

WAAAY over generalised, and only my opinion, but I started with very little cash and had to make the wisest choices given all my other parameters and I chose Logic because I already was using FinalCutPro on a Mac and because my first jobs used software instruments - it was all done internally on my Mac. Then Apple bought E-Magic and it kinda worked out real well. I can buy any ProTools rig I want because I have the plugins to load logic onto it and have the best of both worlds if and when I want.

Cheers,

A

[Andrew Mehrtens]

Oh, and the Quick Tour of Logic is at
http://www.apple.com/logic/
and you click on the tab (second or third menu bar down) that says "Quick Tour". It's at the far right under the graphic.

Cheers,

A

[gdoubleyou]

The biggest difference is the Pro Tools hardware, it's modular. Need more tracks, or effects add another PCI card.

You can use a less powerfull computer because all plugins use the Digidesign hardware, not the computers cpu.
Besides the PCI cards rackmount A/D converters are required, that's what really costs quality converters.