Mbox Vs. The Rest Of The Usb World, guidance for powerbook recording set up Options

[tgwj]

I have a g4 powerbook 867 Mhz, 384 mb RAM, running 10.2.8. After some investigation, I've narrowed my choices down to two, for money, quality and reliability: getting an M-Audio Duo and Logic Audio Big Box or getting the Digidesign M-box. (roughly $500 for either) I'm wondering if there's any major differences between the two set-ups (hardware or software advantages, etc.) and also if anyone has any recommendations or warnings for me on my set up in general.

I'll be doing some recording with a mixer probably or just using the 2 inputs for mics, etc. I recognize the limitations of USB but I need good software more than inputs/outputs right now. Maybe I'll upgrade to FireWire sometime. Thanks for your advice!

[Presto]

Yeah, keep it small until you find you really need more. I use Mbox/PTLE. It's great for audio recording then pottering with your tracks. I've heard for midi it's better using Logic than PT. Whatever you choose, you'll have a good time.

If you want to see what's already been said on the subject in MM, use the 'search' button

This post has been edited by Presto: Mon 15 Dec 2003, 21:27

[tgwj]

Thanks. yeah I've been reading up on it. I just noticed that the Mbox's sample rate is only 44.1, 48 kHz. but the Duo offers up to 96 kHz. What does this difference mean in practical terms? (not how does it work but how important is it)

[StolltheMusic]

I have been looking into buying an audio interface as well. I was mainly looking at the M-box but this new m-audio firewire 410 just caught my eye, it looks pretty sweet. Ive figured out there are a lot more interfaces out there than I thought, so I dont really know what Im going to do anymore. I also have been looking at the lower priced control surfaces, Tascam has an amazing new firewire one (fw 1884), but its a bit pricy for what i want to spend right now. Check out some of the other interfaces and control surfaces i have found -->


http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=produc...11119907053a313

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/ua5.html
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/ua700.html
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/ur80.html

http://www.tascam.com/product_info.php?pid...puter_recording
http://www.tascam.com/product_info.php?pid...puter_recording
http://www.tascam.com/product_info.php?pid...puter_recording

[Presto]

Decide on what you want to plug into your computer - how many mics, guitars, keyboards...? If you want to input midi information, the mbox won't do it!

If you want good mics using 48V phantom power, a pair'll cost more than the mbox/PTLE.

Consider the app you want to use for making music, and for making the interface work. You get PTLE free with the mbox.

How are you going to listen to what you're making? I suggest a good pair of headphones. You can use your hifi amp & speakers for output, and only good monitors when you really can't resist paying out for them.

Cables need to be included in your costing.

If you're getting a new computer too and need to record with mics, consider the noise the computer makes (fans, CD, HD). Portables are the quietest.

I suggest finding an extra source of income too - heeh hee

[Presto]

Ah, I forgot:
48khz is quite sufficient unless you can hear sounds higher than 24khz. I doubt it. (Halving the sampling rate gives the highest sound frequency you get).

96khz takes up more room on your HD. And more computer power too.
I don't know why pros use more than 48khz. Perhaps because I haven't heard the results on veeeeeeeeeeeeery expensive equipment.

Remember, quality is no more than that of the weakest link in the chain. Often its the mics or the monitors. It could be our ears, but in my case it's my musical genius.

[rickenbacker]

A popular rule of thumb is that it's better to increase the bit-depth of audio files rather than increase the sampling rate. In other words, working at 24-bit and 44.1KHz is good enough for most humans (really, only bats and high-end mastering engineers might be picky about your track's sonic definition above this) and is an acceptable compromise between sound quality and hard disk space. Plus everyone listens to the finished CD at 16-bit, 44/1KHz, anyway.

It is perfectly true, though, that the quality of your sound cannot be higher than the weakest link in your signal chain. You have a $1,000 acoustic guitar, but you record it using a $150 mic. Disappointed with the results, you will be.

As for the FireWire 410, there does seem to be quite a crowd of disgruntled users out there already. The reality doesn't seem to match the expectation, basically.

[jebbels]

If you are recording songs with the intention of burning them on cd is there any benifit to recording 24bit, rather than at 16 if it's going to end up at 16 anyway?

[rickenbacker]

Yes, because the original file you capture at 24-bit will have substantially more sonic detail than if you'd captured it at 16-bit. Those additional 8 bits REALLY account for a lot of extra audio info.

If the recording program you were using did a really poor job of dithering from 24 to 16 bits, you might be degrading your signal by changing bit depths anyway, so you could argue for staying in 16-bit all the way through from tracking to mixdown.

I would still record in 24-bit. Sequencers today do a good enough job of dithering for most people (I only know SX and Logic and both seem OK to my ears), so it's worth eating up the extra disk space by recording at as high a bit rate as your hardware allows.

[MusicMan91]

M-Audio OmniStudio USB. There really isn't any lag time, at least not that I have experienced yet, and it is a great piece of equipment. I plug the Soundcraft M8 into it and then turn around and use SoundStudio, clean it up using SoundSoap, then import it to Cubase SL.

[macyu]

Hmm.. the OmniStudio USB has been something I've been eyeing.. The only thing that I did want to see is it operating on bus power, but I guess you want to power it externally if you're on USB. How's the latency when you use software monitoring (i.e. not using the direct monitor)? What I seem to hear is that for software monitoring, the emagic usb interfaces has the best latency... too bad they seem to be unstable without the optional power adaptor and that they come with cinch plugs.. they should have been at least decent enough to put in trs 1/4" plugs..

[MusicMan91]

I haven't experienced any noticeable lag time at all when I use software to record.

[dextrometh]

I did a bit of research recently upon deciding to go digital finally. I'm on a 12" Mac Powerbook. I came really close to going with the M-audio Firewire 410, but changed my mind 'cause it seemed a lot of people weren't happy with 1) the quality of the unit/software itself ("I feel like a beta tester...") and 2) the customer service. Actually, I found some people, Mac users naturally, who were having problems with MIDI so I bailed. I finally decided on the Digidesign Mbox and will have to get a separate MIDI unit. Yeah, Mbox doesn't have MIDI ports... and I know latency will be an issue to conquer, but I didn't find as many complaints out there in the WWW. I was happy to see all the software that's being bundled with units nowadays. The Firewire 410 and the Mbox both are bundled with Reason and Ableton Live. Very nice!

[lushbudget]

I'm a new DAW user and my choice was the Mbox and a Ti PowerBook 867mhz, 512K RAM running 10.3.2 (Panther) I had some good mics and a numark mixer and amp w/studio monitors already that I used as the core of my old analog tape system. I have gotten great results with this gear, and I've been sucessful learning how to use it pretty quickly as well. There is of course a learning curve, but the bundled software that comes with the Mbox is GREAT! You get PT LE, Reason adapted, Amplitube LE, Live LE and T-Racks & Sample tank - it really is a great deal.

I'm stil having a hell of a time figuring out this "re-wire" business, though. I don't know how to make it work! Maybe I just need some instruction on it's use and a couple of ideas to put it to use.

All in all, the Mbox has been a great investment for me, and I feel I will be using it for some time - especially when going mobile!

Adios!

[gahlord]

Hey all,

So this topic is sorta like what I need to know. Now that GarageBand is coming (please don't groan too loud... I'll get something nicer later) I'm getting excited about getting back into recording a bit.

What I want to do:
Record live music.
Record more than two channels at once.
Do a little bit of MIDI messing around.

What I currently have:
12" PBG4 867
8 channel mixer
a bunch of mics some good, some bad
GarageBand (real soon)

When I was a kid I used to mess with a 4-track. That was great. I'd love to get at least 4 channels in (I know a human drummer and you need at least 3 mics to begin getting drums on tape).

I do have an 8-channel mixer so I could smash everything down to two channels that way. But I'd rather do it in the software (I'm sure you understand).

So to the real question:

What AD converter thingie can/should I get? I see a lot of different sound-in devices that only offer two channels (i.e. only obvious benefit is moving the converter further from the computer noise).

Thanks,
g

[pinostut]

To get it working, select Reason/sampletank or ableton as a plugin on an audio or aux track (on an audio track you can also record the reason or so output). For Sampletank and Reason, select a midi track. Select the right input on the midi track and choose the right output on the midi track (sampletank or reason). Make sure the midi config in the audio/midi config of Panther. Put the midi track to record and play the sound you want. Mess around some with the prefs of PT/Reason/Ableton to optimize the stuff.

Hope this will do.
It did for me, but maybe my explaining is a little weak.
Will try and make a more structual "manual" later.

[visualmusic]

I might as well jump on the band wagon...I'm in the same place trying to decide what to get. What about the M-Audio Duo, or the Tascam US-122? Anyone out there played with either?

The Tascam is by far the cheapest, and I've read some good reviews of it. Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on anything besides the Didgi stuff. I've also heard bad stuff about the 410 so I'm staying away from it.

VM

[Presto]

Gahlord, if I'd been able to get started with Garageband, I think I'd have been quite satisfied until my composing talent lost it's place as weakest link (hum I tend to overlook that). I could have downloaded Protools Free to see what extra I could get from it. Also, I think I would have soon felt the need for a pair of good mics and that means pre-amps and phantom power (usually 48V). I was told 'shit in, shit out' but could I hear it? I got some good monitors. Ow! Well, when it IS good it's wooooonderful.

Anyway, I started with the mbox. What's this about latency with it? I must be recording in such a way as not to encounter this problem. I pile up mic recordings on PTLE.

I'd now like to uprade to at least 4 mic ins (8 would be wonderful but...). Digi do propose to trade in the mbox for a 002 rack which will give me 4, plenty of other I/Os including midi, and an upgrade to the OSX version of PTLE, but that's over a 1000€ + the same again for more mics/stands/wires.

Conclusion: go for garageband, buy a midi I/O and keyboard, and steer clear of audio. You'll save alot of money and have a great time. Haha, only at first. Once you get hooked

Ah, concerning the computer noise, you can always get some longer wires and have the cpu away from the mics, screen, and keyboard. I've got an ibook for recording so I don't worry about the noise.

This post has been edited by Presto: Thu 15 Jan 2004, 12:36

[dextrometh]

I'm just now playing with my new Mbox. I guess it kinda irritates me that you need to use the Mbox itself to use the applications... like I said, I'm just now playing with it a little, but even the Ableton Live version that comes with it needs the Mbox unit. Am I right or am I doing something wrong? It's portable, I guess, but not THAT portable if you need the Mbox everywhere.

[rickenbacker]

From what I understand, yes, you need to have the Mbox to launch the Pro Tools LE software (and anything else associated with it). This annoys a lot of people.

[Presto]

PT Free (is it still around?) used to be the only hardware-independant version of PT.

You can use the mbox without PT if you want to use its D/A converter for output from the mac. In that case you have to adjust the volume on whatever software you're using.