Comments about:

Presonus FireBox Review

Thanks for the great article. I will get one of those !

Nice Review.

I'm curious if you tested the Firebox with any Firewire 800 devices connected to your G5. The reason I ask is that I had purchased an M-Audio FW410 for use on our G5's. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way that if you utilize external Firewire 800 drives (in our case Lacie D2)... you cannot use the FW410. M-Audio claims that it is a G5 bus issue. After two months of trouble-shooting and no resolve, M-Audio arranged for me to return the unit. Now I am looking for an alternative. The M-Audio engineer that I spoke to mentioned that Edirol's Firewire interfaces use half the bandwidth of the M-Audio and may work alright. I contacted Edirol, and although they said that I "should not have any issues"... they wouldn't guarantee that I would not have the same issue. I certainly do not want to go through this all over again. The Firebox looks like a unit that has the features we need and a great price point... but does it work with external FW800 drives?

Thanks.

hi

dunno if this helps but the advice i got re FW800 was that it steals most G4 and G5 CPU, so disabling most peripherals. i.e the issue may not be at the soundcard end, its more like Apple have included it but the OS and hardware only just supports it at this stage.

Having said that, I swapped an Maudio 410 card for a Firebox, and after a bit of tweaking buffers it works great, and the sound quality is top notch. I'd read about problems with logic and spdif but i think these are sorted now. The only criticism i'd make is that the otherwise excellent software mixer does not show signal levels, which seems a bit of an omission. If enough of us pester them maybe they'll update....

best
xyx

Hi,

that doesn't sound really good. I intended to use the Firebox with my Powerbook and an external drive like Lacie D2. Both on Firewire ports.

But what I hear from you it doesn't work.

Should I better go with a USB product like an M-Audio?

Thanks

I've recently purchased a Firebox. I have a PowerBook G4 Al 12" 867MHz with 10.4.1. I use it in the single FW400 port. I have a SmartDisk VST 10GB external FW drive. I have found that it is better to attach the Firebox first to the PB and then attach the HDD to the Firebox.

Other than that I'm very pleased with the Firebox - no drivers, no PSU.

Vince

BTW Presonus know about the problems installing Cubase LE on OSX 10.4 and will ship registered owners an updated version when Steinberg sort out the installer. I use mine with LIve and GarageBand.

Firebox is the best..I researched for months, the M-audio 410 seems by most users reports and even x-employees to be a nightmare...
Fire box for its price is an amazing unit.. So great for travel gigging... Get this unit! It works great with my powerbook..

peace Z

I should note that the M-Audio FW410 did work with our D2 drives if plugged directly into the back of the 410 via Firewire 400. It is only if you attempt to use the D2 plugged into the G5's firwire ports that it causes issue. If Firewire 400 speed is fine for you, then this unit will work with D2 drives. I use the D2 firewire 800 drives to edit video, and the extra speed is critical... so the inconvenience of having to cut down to firewire 400 speeds, just to be able to utilize the M-Audio unit made it unusable for me.

Has anyone tried using an 800 speed drive with the Firebox?

sorry,
the firebox has a problem. it is about the zero-latncy monitoring. the problem is that the box routs music threw the softwaremixer (in other words threw the computer)---this sucks the cpu dry.
it has been tested and when the softwaremixer is off the cpu sucktion slows down, but when the mixer is on its crap
sorry...
search on this and other sites and read tghe (horror)stories

Ummm... digimusic i have to disagree with you on that one. I own a firebox.

Here's the deal with the mixer: it sends commands to the firebox to control its internal digital mixer for monitoring - no audio travels to and from the computer besides that which is normal and must come in for recording/go out to hear things. I also note that CPU usage by the interface when plugged in, though it is more than it should be, is not generally affected by quitting the mixer. There is not actually any audio going through it, despite Presonus's failure to describe this as the case in the manual. Also, the unit still monitors audio using the last config you set it for when the mixer is not running (implying that the mixer software does not actually handle any audio). The firebox only forgets those settings once powered down.

And, if you get a non-defective unit, as i did first time, it works very well. Despite a small CPU drain, which is understandable since # of channels and audio quality is higher than that of the mac's built-in audio and the firebox has no special hardware like the RME cards, i can use my firebox quite adequately on my powerbook G4 1.25GHz, and I do realtime performance using my trumpet and MaxMSP with lots of effects and on the fly sequencing/craziness as well as some pretty CPU intense Logic sessions. The firebox really does not deserve such criticism.

best,

Hi all. I wonder, should i buy M-Audio Firewire 410 or should i buy presonus firebox..? do any have som comments on this?

Thanks

Daniel

firebox. I like mine. From what i have heard the 410 has some issues. Some people like it, but the "4" in 410 is misleading - two of those are digital ins only. The firebox actually has 4 analog ins - plus 2 digital. And for me it has been "just working pretty much no matter what" now for 2 months. Plus presonus' preamps are nice. Maudio's, though i've only bought a MIDI interface from them, are not quite so great i hear.

And any small glitches it has are really not a big problem. It does lose sync, but rarely, and only when unplugged and re-plugged, never in the middle of doing something. So what if you need to go resync it in AudioMIDI setup once every like 30 times you plug the box in? Thats not too bad.

Hello,
Do both passive and active monitors work with the Firebox?? I was looking at the M-Audio Studiophile DX4 monitors to accompany the firebox (If I do purchase it...) do they work well together??

Hi

I just posted this elsewhere - wondering if anyone can clarify some comments I've seen relating to the firebox's "lack of midi" or problems with midi ports. I am planning on running a Yamaha XG keyboard through the midi ins. Using a G5. I'm wondering if there are any problems I can anticipate with this, or are these people referring to something which is a non-issue for this scenario?

Thanks

never had any problems with the midi on my firebox - using it right now to run a hacked yamaha MIDI drum module into the computer as the interface for a weird instrument of mine. Also use it for the in of my Midi keyboard and MIDI out going to my Nanosynth. works great. Glad i will no longer need to carry around my USB midi interface. The only thing is that the MIDI connectors seem sorta delicate cause they are on a breakout cable, but the box is not big enough to fit them otherwise!

Also, as far as monitors go - I have mine hooked up fine to a technics home-stereo amp - works fine if that means anything as far as active/passive - i dunno. Also i plug it into my guitar/bass amps for gigs. This works fine too.

As far as using active and passive monitors then you can connect active monitors directly to the Firebox as long as you use a Jack lead.

As far as passive monitors then there is no point directly connecting them to the Firebox as they need amplification, though of course you can connect them to an amp as long as you have the Jack lead.

I have a pair of Soundcraft Spirit 2 passive monitors that are connected to an amp, and the amp is connected to the Firebox. No problems.

Vince

Hi Firebox users,

What about the cpu peaks with the Firebox ? Is it a real issue or not ?

I plan on replacing my small and very cpu friendly EMI 6/2m usb soundcard for the Firebox in live conditions.
But i'm still a bit afraid because my live sessions are "on the edge" with the cpu and I don't want to modify them.
Do you think the use of Process Wizard will keep me away from overloading my cpu with Ableton Live ?
Here is the setup : PBook Ti 1Ghz/1Go ram, Live4 and a <5 to 10 ms> latency needed.

I will also use it in studio conditions with Logic 7.1 and a FW400 Lacie drive. The cpu/latency here is less critical but I have only one Firewire 400 port. Will I need to buy an additional pcmcia Firewire card or not ? What is your experience with chaining the Firebox with a HD ?
One more question about reliability: did one of you already get some word clock loosing issues with it ? I mean sample rate instability ? I've already extensively tested the M-Audio FW410 and I don't want to get trough the same clocking and drivers problems ...

Thank you very much for your help.

I've used M-Audio interfaces for a little over two years and they worked alright. I just got the Firebox a few weeks ago and I can't even believe I ever bothered with M-Audio. Not only did the interfaces work poorly, the sound quality was only okay. I thought that's just as good as it got, because I had the same issues with the DigiDesign MBox. This unit is unbelievable. I get much higher levels with significantly less noise. It is, by far, the best box I've ever owned. You don't have to do anything to get it to work and I can actually run all audio (including system output) through it. Final Cut Pro actually had some difficulty with it at first, but I restarted and now there isn't a single problem. If you are looking at getting a new interface, get this one. I can't even describe how pleased I am with it.

I have used my Firebox with an external HDD. I found that things were better when the Firebox was the first thing connected to the FW port on the PB, with the HDD connected to the FireBox. AFAIR Presonus recommend this chain as well.

Vince

Great review and discusion!

I'm sold in concept on the Firebox. My main issue is the speed of my computer, and whether it is fast enough to avoid any issues with the Firebox.

I'm running a G4 800 iMac with 768Mb of RAM. The G4 800 is the stated minimum requirement for the Firebox, but I want to be on the safe side and hear about your experiences.

Will I hit any problems? What are they likely to be? Let me know what you're running!

Brian

i think u will be OK with an 800 MHz G4. Dont expect to be able to do loads of processing while you are using all the Firebox's channels, but it does not take that much more processing power than built in.

The CPU spikes can sometimes cause problems - I think. Its hard to tell. They seem to cause occasional clicks/pops, but it is tough to correlate them to the pops. However, these are reduced to practically none for me by renicing the process i want to run audio, Like Max/MSP, and reducing priority for the Dock. See this which i wrote in another thread:



MaxMSP 4.5 (which i dont have yet) has some controls for priority. I dont know if these apply to audio, but they might o something similar.

So if you get pops and clicks, download process wizard and try increasing the priority of the app(s) u want to work with.

I just posted a similar reply in another thread a few moments ago, but I think the only absolute requirement for the FireBox is OS X 10.3.7, as the drivers for the unit are part of this update's CoreAudio. The FireBox acts as a simple audio I/O device with my G3 600MHz iBook. I record on my dual 1GHz PowerMac and it also works beautifully there.

If you want to do a lot of complex audio tasks, an 800MHz G4 is at the bare bones end of things these days, anyway. Sadly.

BTW, I'm running Yamaha MSP5 active monitors from my FireBox. Sounds great.

Can Firebox be used as stand-alone preamp with AC adaptor - that is, signals still go in and out?

Hi, I just made an account for this topic. I have been researching recording systems for my computer. I was going back and forth between the Digidesign Mbox and the Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio. I finally started leaning toward the Mbox because i read such great reviews on the software and I don't plan on recording with 10 other people so two inputs was okay for me. Then I ran across the PreSonus Firebox! I was floored by all the great reviews and the sturdiness it appears to have in the pictures. I was afraid the others would crush while I'm setting them up or during shipping because they look so fragile. I have a G4 Powerbook with 1.5 GHz and 512MB (which I hope to upgrade to 1GB in the near future) so I don't think running the Firebox will be an issue for me. The one thing I am hesitant about is the software. Everything I have read about Cubase sounds bad compared to Pro Tools. My brother-in-law has an MBox with Pro Tools, but I read somewhere that Pro Tools can only be used with Digidesign products and Digidesign products can only be used with Pro Tools. Is this true or could I get Pro Tools from him and use it with a Firebox? Does everybody agree that I should go with the Firebox or should I go with something else? And please tell me something about the software. I would really like some feedback from some other people because I am tired of researching and going back and forth on what I should get. Thanks!

"Can Firebox be used as stand-alone preamp with AC adaptor - that is, signals still go in and out?"

-Yes! You dont get any mixing capabilities, but the two preamps do go out outputs 1 and 2 (separately) when the box is not plugged into the computer. Unfortunately it does not remember firebox mixer settings from the last time it was connected to the computer. But it still works

piggy_destruction: Yes, pro tools will only run on digidesign or select Maudio hardware. I have not tried PT 7 LE yet, but pt 6 LE was not that great (buggy and processor inefficient for me on my Mbox system). I like logic over pro tools. Its more composer-centric as opposed to post-production centric, and more flexible for things like working in tandem with MaxMSP via Jack etc. The cubase u get with the firebox? I have not even installed it, as I have Logic Pro. The thing about the Mbox is u get a complete package (but one i dont trust from experience). With the firebox, u get a cut down cubase, which is prolly OK, but not the greatest.

My firebox blows my Mbox 1 away as a piece of hardware, but if u really want to use pro tools, you will have to go with the Mbox or an Maudio interface (which, like digidesign's interfaces, are not known for their great drivers from what i have heard.)

Thanks for the reply, arvidtp. I am defintely leaning more toward the Firebox over the Mbox. I believe in quality over quantity and it seems like one of the higher points of the Mbox is just the software package.

Hi Everyone!
I'm completely new to recording, and am just trying to setup an *extremely* modest ability to do some recording at home, mostly for fun and learning right now.
All the reviews have led me to believe that the FireBox is the way to go for the audio interface. The once question I have is in regard to compression. I'll mostly be playing with recording instruments such like a Native American flute, and various hand drums (djembe, congas, etc.), and my experience so far has me suspecting that some type of compression would be very helpful, especially for being able to increase the gain to get the "ring" from the drums like the djembe without risking clipping on the initial hit.
Has anyone used the firebox in conjunction with some type of compressor? I was looking at Presonus' COMP16 compressor, and it said the mic has to be pre-amped before going into the compressor. Since the Firebox is the pre-amp, and also the audio interface, that left me unsure as to how I would have to connect things to use a compressor with the Firebox.
Has anyone done anything like this? Or would I need to look for separate components for pre-amp and interface, so the compressor could be connected between them?

The Firebox does not have Send and Return insert jacks - so no, you can't stick a compressor into your signal path before it goes digital and is routed into your computer. If you have a dedicated mic preamp or a small mixer, they usually have insert points, but then you are spending more money.

Alternatively, you can leave the compression until mixdown - in other words, record your live audio as is, then use software plug-in compressors within your sequencing package (whatever that is). That way, any compression you add can always be removed if you decide you don't like it later - if you compress on the way in during recording, you're stuck with it if you mess it up. People work both ways - no big deal.

Other than the insert points, the Firebox is a well-specified unit for the money.

Hello everyone. I just got an account set up here so i could ask some questions regarding the firebox. I recently got one and hooked it up to my Imac G5 running Mac OS X v10.4. everything plugged in without a hitch. Then i plugged in my monitors, they being Rokit 5's, and turned on the computer. The blue light on the firebox comes on and tells me that it is being read by the computer. Then i plug in my guitar and open Garageband and st it up as real instrument and all that stuff. It works. Then I turn off my computer and power it on the next day and the Firebox is being picked up in system preferences but no sound is being picked up, either from the guitar or the condensor mic. So i unplug the fire wire and it says that the are no MIDI devices selected. Then i plugged it back in and it says it picked it up 1 midi device Presonus firebox, all that jazz, and i selected it and sound was picked up again. But this time it would not play the music back through the monitors. Fine whatever i'll fix it later. So i come back to day and turn on the computer and now the sound was playing only through the monitors. All sound, iTunes for example was playing through it. But now no sound was being picked up from the instruments. Then i moving my computer over an inch and the monitors stopped playing. The screen showed the volume bar drop from 1 less then full all the way down to 3. I have no idea whats going on. Maybe my firewire input on the back is mess up. So i'm here, driven to the verge of insanity asking fro some simple help.

If it helps here is the computer specs
Machine Name: iMac G5
Machine Model: PowerMac12,1
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 2.1 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1.5 GB
Bus Speed: 700 MHz

If any one can help it would be awesome. Thanks.

Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a Firebox for my recording setup. Do you think it would work well with a G4 Powerbook, 867 MHz, 768 MB RAM, OS 10.4 Tiger, using Logic Express? Also, my midi keyboard is a Roland PC-300 that only has a USB out. Can this be connected to the midi input on the firebox or would I just have to connect directly to my laptop with the USB and bypass the Firebox?
I'm new to all this, so my apologies if these are silly questions!

Thanks!!

you could plug it in to the midi in of the firebox if you wanted to.
it would work just fine.

Don't get hung up on the software side of things.
They all offer benefits, whether it be for composition. recording, DAW or whatever.

I think Cubase is the simplest in many respects as its interface is probably familiar to all.

Logic is very flexible but has a harder learning curve due to the rather odd 'enviroments' system.

Ableton is probably the hottest at this time as it lends it self very well to DAW as well as the DJ generation, but its interface is very proprietry.

pro Tools is widely used within the industry, not because its good software, but because the hardware options offered a guaranteed track count, where the CPU dependant packages did not.

I'm migrating away from Cubase now towards ableton, as I intend to use it for Live as well as studio use.
I also think that Ableton has the lowest CPU hit of all the packages, where Cubase(SE) has the highest and Logic somewhere in the middle.
You have to think seriously about this when your on a lowly 12" powerbook.
The Firebox is an excellent piece of kit, and seems more stable than my old FW410.

Regarding the CPU hit, I've always found Live to be a bit of a hog and Logic way out in front in terms of efficiency. Nothing runs sweeter than Logic, at least in my experience (PowerMac G4 and iBook).

And Logic's whole Environments thing can now be completely bypassed with the set-up assistant in v7. Thank God.

This morning, I got an e-mail from Ableton, saying that with the 5.2 update for the MacIntels, Live will run much faster. Apparently, their whole thing for Live this year is optimisation - multi-processor support etc. So Live should run in an even nippier stylee on the new Macs.

Another newbie here: How exactly would I go about doing this? I'm in a similar situation, with an M-Audio Keystation with USB out, and a newly purchased Firebox. Ideally, I guess I'd like to run the keyboard into the Firebox along with everything else, so I don't have to constantly switch the Audio Input settings in GarageBand as I go back & forth between the keyboard and other instruments. Is this feasible, and how would I go about it?

Many thanks...this site has been a godsend!

the keybboard USB input is a MIDI input, not an AUDIO input. MIDI is a whole different animal from audio and is selected separately. So if the keystation is your primary MIDI controller, u should not have to switch anything no matter whether u plug it in via USB or via MIDI thru the firebox (using the breakout cable). Really doesn't matter - depends which port u have free!

Recently I have been looking to ableton live but i agree, rickenbacker, logic remains the [DAW] king.

(I have yet to use Live live, though)

I've just bought firebox mostly because of the comments from this forum.
But what i got is not as good as i read here.
Too many noise (hiss) come out the outputs, and the mic is not that loud.
Increasing the mic input volume, will add to more noise .
Is there anyone who have same problem as me.
I'm using this gear:
Ableton Live 5, Notebook Pentium M 1.8GHz, 1Gb memory, Shure SM58

I've sold my M-audio 410 to get this one, and now i miss it.

dunno - i think mine's pretty clean, at least compared to my Mbox. - Did you try boosting the preamps +12dB with the firebox control software? Dynamic mics are quieter than compressors because of the lack of an onboard amp in the mic, so i think i usually boost the pres when using dynamics.

I'm having a similar issue, though it's more of an echo/hiss. I've been told it's a latency problem (thought this may not apply to you). The odd thing is that it goes in and out and I have no clue why. A few days ago it was fine, then yesterday it crapped out on me without changing anything.

Then, being the moron that I am, I tried updating firmware from Presonus' site (which is a bit confusing I will say in my defense). I ended up using the Firepod (note, I'm using a Firebox, not the same thing) driver update. Which you would think would be able to recognize the difference... but it didn't and updated the Firebox's firmware anyway. Fortunately it didn't lous things up all the way, but my headphone jack doesn't work any more, I can only monitor the output through the Main outputs now.

So, my question for everyone using a Firebox for a while is this: can I re-flash the firmware? Or is this going to need to be sent in to Presonus?

I should say that when the latency issue wasn't a problem the interface was fantastic. I love both the Firebox and the Bluetube pre-amp that I got from Presonus. They're fantastic. Now I just wish I wasn't such a bonehead and could get things straight.