I'm using the firebox for 5 months now, and it's great. Answering miscellany above: Yes, if i don' have any input, the noise on the phones starts at about 2 o'clock, but if I have a normal input level, i would damage my ears at that point. the level is too loud there.

Now, if i plug a pair of Neumann's KM 184, the mics noise come in, plus the cables and the box pres noise... Depending on the level of the source, that noise gets completely covered.

What i can tell for sure is that the Firebox selfnoise is lower than those mics (each one costing 3x the box).

Using a very good mic pre the sound gets better, but in warmth, not really in noise.

The only difficulty I really have to deal with this setup is accoustics.
that's never cheep.

I hope that clarifies a bit the noise issue.

Hey fellas... That kind of noise start at US$ 500.00 and goes down under...
That´s the difference between those devices and a "pro quality", "very expensive" fancy device, such as Apogee, Milenia, Focusw.....and the like
So, we have to live with it or upgrade....or go back to an out-of-the-room studio facility....I mean, that´s what I ´ve learned...

I wonder if that new MOTU 'Ultrtalite' i think its called has the same noise issues... I have a strtange hum from my firebox as well butt i just tthought it was the old wiring in tthe house as well as everythting thats plugged into the sockets in the room i record in... ohh well, its justt for scratch ideas and sttuff so im not too bothered by it.

pna
ads

I can't edit the above post so, ill just explain to you that lately, my 't' key on my keyboard is way too sensitive as of late so when i post something quickly sometimes i get things like this "tt". Its double and triple 't'ing me!

ok
so pops n clicks (like a vinyl lp)
DO I NEED A new larger faster, Hard drive?
I have been recording wtih my Firebox for about 1 year now...
I usually use the Cubase LE that was bundled with it
on my iBook G4 1.2Ghz 1.25GB Ram the small 30GB HD is partitioned into 2 roughly halfs, the main drive with software and OSX
System Version: Mac OS X 10.3.9 (7W98)
Kernel Version: Darwin 7.9.0

I have been somtime getting pops and crackles
I do not know if it is a softweare proiblem or hardware,or onthought
is
the HardDricve is too slow? could this be
I am thinking of getting a 60or 80Gb 7200rpm HD installed,and once again partitionting this

before I record on location I clean partion 2 so there is over 10 gb to write to
I use techtool pro 4 to check both partitions for issues and optimize both fox any problems and then also run diskwarrior to fix directories then even use Disc Utility to repair permissions

then I ma ready to go
I have also used my external firewire OWC neptune 160GB 7200 rpm HD to record to
with the firebox both infront and at the end fo the firewire chain

I have had varied sussesses,and some not so sucesses...
usually I record 24/44.1
Iwhen just uing the 2 mic pres, most often it works
and when I use 2 mics and 2 line ins to record 4 channels
it often gets pops,but this has happened with the 2 channels too

any Ideas?
orsuggestions?

the real question is steping up to a 7200rpm internal HD gonna help?

thanx so much
-- Ian
PS I wish there was a way for ME to cotrol the line ins,whan I do not have control of the signal, without having to use the Firebox control or mixer,which while recording causes CUbas to stop recording... usually this is bacaus ethe was not chance to sound check
and ther is either clippingor
very low levels/signalon the line ins...
any other suggestions?

no - a faster hard drive does not sound like something that would help(i have a similar speed machine and always record to the internal drive, even 6 chan at a time). The firebox does have the problem of occasionally making lots of clicks and pops, in which case you go into audioMIDI Setup and switch the sample rate to something else, then switch it back again - problem solved. It happens to be about one every 2 weeks, but I move my gear around a lot and unplug and plug-in the firebox often.

How many inputs you use should not have much to do with it, because I think the interface is always streaming the data from all 6 ins to the computer, no matter which you are using to record at any one time, even if that data is all zeros.

More intermittent clicks and pops can happen when your Processor is working too hard - which can happen easily on a G4 laptop if you are using a lot of realtime effects or processes, or have other processing intense programs running in the background.

Also I dont know how reliable Cubase is - have not used it. But i assume it is reliable. For all of my location recording I use a custom little app i made in MaxMSP that launches in a jiffy (from a key command in Quicksilver), records up to 8 tracks at any sample or bit rate with the click of one button, and has always worked. That is unless i need to overdub - then the monster logic it is.

I'm actually thinking of making a better, nicer version of that little recording app and posting it on my website - give Boomrecorder or whatever that similar program is that costs so much a run for its money with a free MaxMSP app...

About controlling the levels on the line-ins: if you cant do a sound check, bring the signal level in at a really low level - lower than you think. The firebox is a pretty quiet interface, and if u record at 24 bit, you have A LOT of gain u can apply before getting digital artifacts by reducing your effective bitdepth below 16 bits. Its 2^24 amplitude possibilities - thats 16777216 - and CDs only store 65536. If my calculations are correct, you should be able to raise the gain of a 24-bit signal by 256 times before you are getting to only 16 effective bits of data. Thats 768dB! (i think) - of course the noise floor of the firebox is not THAT good, but give yourself some room is what i say. Someone tell me if my calculations are incorrect - I'm not looking any of this up After thinking about that out a while ago I have always used 24 bit . The file size is only 1.5x, but the data precision is 256x! Isn't it beautiful? hahahaaa - ok i'm too tired.

arvidtp
thanx
but if I go into AudioMidi Setup and change the sample rate is this something I have to do evey time?
the pops and clicks I speak of are not heard while mionitoring thru the headphoines...
while I have experienced major clicks and digi noize ,more what I would describe as zaps! thsi was fixed by using the AM setup to change the smaple rate like you mentioned...
I usually record bands live on location at shows,I have no control of when they start and stop, occasionally I will also be the sound engineer,though thisis quite rare
often I can not sound check the micpres are never a problem for me, as I can adjust and generally know whenrfe they should be set, as for the other ins every soundbord is different with difernet leverls and different outs, no control there...

any how I can not tell when recording if I get poos of clicks until later...
any suggestions?
also if some one or other recording device is patched out of the maine line outs they get a clean (no pops or clicks)... this is whay I thought it could be the HD speed?

Is ther a way to have the out put go to both SPDIF and Main Line outs, ineffect getting a didg out and an analog out? I have not firureged out any way to do this, its one or the other,is this true?

is there any software that would stiull keep recordinhg int the background , when going to chanage the Audio midi set up, FireBoc Control or the Firebox mixer?



thanx for any input
peace
-- Ian

No - just when the firebox goes spastic and u get the 'rice krispies sound'! More intermittent clicks sounds like something to do with high CPU usage. Check Activity Monitor.

>> the pops and clicks I speak of are not heard while mionitoring thru the headphoines...

Probably because u are monitoring direct inside the box (with the firebox mixer software) so that is not going into the computer yet, so it will never have pops. Pops are a computer thing generally.

>> any how I can not tell when recording if I get poos of clicks until later...
any suggestions?

Yes! Mute the monitoring of all your inputs in the Firebox Mixer software (so u do not hear it through headphones) then turn on the monitoring of the tracks u are recording in your DAW - then there is a little bit of delay (based on your buffer settings) and you are listening through the computer and whatever you hear there should be exactly what is going to disk. Also, make sure the clicks and pops actually are recorded - ie play the same section over and over and make sure its always in the same place, or open the actual audio file in another app like quicktime player and play the same part back to check...

>> also if some one or other recording device is patched out of the maine line outs they get a clean (no pops or clicks)... this is whay I thought it could be the HD speed?

No - that is probably again because this output is from the Firebox's internal mixer, not the computer. Most DAWs anyway will post an error when the hard-drive is too slow, not just have dropouts. I know Logic and Pro Tools both do that.

>> Is ther a way to have the out put go to both SPDIF and Main Line outs, ineffect getting a didg out and an analog out? I have not firureged out any way to do this, its one or the other,is this true?

Yes - but you must use your DAW or some other software to route the audio within the computer from the inputs to outputs 7 and 8 (ie some bus sends to an aux output track or something within your DAW). Again - there will be a little bit of monitoring delay in this because u are going through the computer.


>> is there any software that would stiull keep recordinhg int the background , when going to chanage the Audio midi set up, FireBoc Control or the Firebox mixer?

Dont know - would have to test. In my experience clicks that i hear due to CPU overload generally do not appear in recorded audio because the audio stream is written to disk as a higher priority than the playback audio being computed.

Hi, emgcarra!

Which of the high end audio firewire interfaces do you recommend the most? I'm 'bout ready to fling my Firebox as far as I can sling it. I've sent it back to them three times now to fix the short in the volume knob, and they've sent it back three times telling me nothing's wrong with it. Thanks for your advice!

HaHaWorld

Sorry to hear you're having such nasty problems. So far I'm pretty satisfied. My friend has the RME Fireface 800 and is most pleased with it. I guess the mic pre's are also on a bit different level than the FB's. The one interface I'm interested to be bying next, is the MOTU Ultralite. Seems quite sweet to me with a pretty decent price tag too.

Thanks for the input, my friend! I appreciate the advice.

HaHaWorld

If you meant my post, by all means you're welcome! It's nice to be of any help...

I guess the things that are worth paying for are exactly the mic pre's and the A/D converters, which seem to have quite a big say when dealing with digital recordings. I guess that's exactly where RME and MOTU shine. Good luck!

And where Metric Halo shines even brighter

Guess I don't have to ask what interface you are on. Really wish I could try such out. Apogee's products might also keep it's sides in this run.

I'm actually going to pick up a firebox tomorrow, and I got a powerbook g4 1.67ghz w/ os 10.4.8, 2gb ram, and I mainly use Reason 3.0.5 and Live 6.0.1

and I'll tell you how it goes

Alrighty... its all plugged in, and sadly... I find that Reason and Live seems to be a bit slower.. and I dont know what I did different except dropping the sample rate from 512 (which i used on the built-in audio) to 256..

DON'T DO IT!

The Firebox has given me lots of grief on my Quad G5. The volume knob keeps shorting out, and very often I have to re-enable Core Audio because it quits communicating with my Mac. I don't recommend the Firebox at all. Read some of the other posts here and go with MOTU or some other more reliable and higher-end interface.

Cheers!
HaHaWorld

Ive used it for a solid hour, and I've no problems with mine seriously, I think its the daisy-chaining issue, where I've got a firewire hdd, connected to my powerbook, and the firebox is daisychained to the hard drive.. im gonna put usb on the drive, an firewire directly to the firebox and see how i go!

thanks for the warning though

hey,

i'm looking at getting either a firebox or the wee presonus inspire... I think the Inspire will handle whatever I need, but just looking for some advice...

Should I be worried about unbalanced outputs? (Planning on getting KRK RP6's as monitors).

Whatabout daisy-chaining Inspire (or Firebox) to an external FW drive into my MBP?

Anything other quality issues I should be worried about with the Inspire?

Thanks,
Dan

oh before you get a firebox, since you have a macbook pro, you may want to check THIS out, and other folks should too, VERY MAJOR ISSUE!!!

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?t...9&tstart=75

Thanks,

Very interesting... I wonder if the same problem exists with the Inspire.

email presonus and find out

yup, already did so...

let me know about the response as I have a presonus firebox, and contemplating moving to a macbook pro next year!

Presonus never got back in touch with me, but i saw an amazing deal for an Inspire on Craigslist, so I picked it up... works amazing... no need to plug it in either. Powers up fine with the just the firewire...

so what your saying is, you plugged in an inspire into a macbook pro, with no additional power required? awesome! sadly the firebox can't do that, but i'd love to hear people that have had success stories

yup...

didn't have to download anything or install anything, just drag & drop the Presonus app to the desktop... syst prefs & logic pro immediately recognizes it...

excellent! too bad about the firebox then i guess

Yeah - I'll say... doesnt make me want to do the laptop upgrade I was considering for sometime in the coming year...

Here my experience with the Firebox:

The first one would not sync on my G5, so I got a new one. This one did, however, I had no sound unless I started the mixer panel and quit it again each time after booting my computer. I wrote to the support about it and they said this was normal...

A short while ago then the Firebox died with smoke coming out the back. It was in use for about 6 months.

A short review, I am afraid, but the Firebox was more of a "Fire-Hazard" to me than an audio interface.

I have retired
my Presonus Firebox... may try to sell it or use it as a book end...

I got a MOTU Ultralite, and recorded my first show with it last nite... [Reeble Jar, Blackalicious, and Spearhead at the Cuthbert Amptheatre, Eugene OR] it was great!

it was and has been relativly error free, aside from some original install issues...
but it is solid
and I runs in the background, no glitching even when running Airport, firefox, Azueus w/ multiple bitt torrents up loading and downloading. without using CHUD and nap off
so far it is everything the firebox has not been for me.

no glitchyness...


more later

peace thru music

I have now a macbook pro, and yeah, I knew the problem would occur on it too with my presonus firebox. till I can afford to get a motu, i'll wait it out, as the firebox is still a damn good interface, its just the only squabble is the initial power-up via firewire only.

since the Ultralite did not exist when I got my Firebox
I needed to wait
but wished I waited
since the Ultralite is hand down
so much more error free
and easy to use
no turning off Nap w/CHUD
no nothing it just records
and plays in the background

solid

so sorry I wasted 2 + years with my firebox
I believe that Presonus grear works well with windoz PC's
but my experience with MACs and them has proven less than favorable

soon I will try to do a comparison of likes and dislikes
but it is bound to be biased toward the MOTU
sine it works great!

peace
thru music

Anybody have unusual trouble recording live electric bass through a Firebox?
I'm using an Inspire and I get awful clipping/overdive at even low levels. Thinking of switching to Firebox.

Lemme know.

Bill Oetjen

[EDIT LPM: please do not write your emails in clear in the forums, it's stated in the rules. We don't give up your email, don't give it to spammers! Use the SAFE email link next to the poster's message on the left under his name]

Before you switch over to a new interface. I gotta ask this question. Are you using the Hi-Z input on your inspire? Does the inspire have a Hi Z input? If not, then you may want to just go out and find a D/I box to run your bass through before going into the inspire. D/I's range anywhere from 50 to 80 dollars US (and maybe cheaper, but you want a good relible one). That would be much cheaper than buying a new interface.


www.myspace.com/mortal_engines

mortalengines. You are right about D/I. It is much better sounding than "Miking" a Bass. I know the "Purest" will have a dozen reasons why a bass sounds better "Miked" but you must take into account how much sound control does the room have, what type of amp, microphone, hum? You eliminate these problems with D/I. Line 6 has excellent Tools for Guitar and Bass. I love the "Live" sound, but not on Recordings unless it has been Recorded at the highest level of control. Bass "Dominates". Period. Bass shake the Elements, imagine what it can do to our little DAW?!

D/I is a good rule in general, you can shape the sound better with software, it's impossible to match the live Bass or Guitar "Live" sound into a computer. Well, nothing is "impossible", but, it takes a "Sonic Engineer with an awsome set-up to Record Bass, properly. You really have a better chance D/I.

I'm considering getting a MOTU ultralite to replace my firebox (i could still SPDIF-sync and aggregate the two interfaces to make one big interface - so I'm not throwing away the firebox)

So, I have good and bad news about the firebox. I just did a test with it vs. a MOTU traveller that my friend has. I tested preamps and CPU usage:

Preamps:
The MOTU preamps are much quieter. No question. I used a pair of damn nice Danish Pro Audio omni mics (that unfortunately i dont own - their owner said they were ~$1500 a piece) placed right next to each other (they are tiny and fit together on one mic stand), one plugged in the the firebox preamp 1, one into the traveller preamp 1. We recorded drums, acoustic guitar and speech.

It was difficult to hear a difference between the preamps when sound was loud, but when amplifying quiet guitar plucks or chimes from the drumset, you really notice the difference, at least in noise. I cant say much about the sonic quality otherwise, except to say that it was otherwise comparable. First I calibrated the preamps so both gave approximately the same signal level by playing a tone on speakers. Then I normalized sections of the recorded audio of the drums and guitar so that the peak (whatever sound was being used) was the same. The MOTU preamp had much less background noise than that of the firebox. The noise in the firebox preamp sounded very harsh too. Not like tape hiss.


CPU usage:
Well, apple has apparently (in OS 10.4.11) improved their firewire audio drivers, but not completely fixed them.

Now the firebox no longer makes big CPU spikes every 6-10 seconds and in general uses onyl superficially more CPU than the MOTU. But every once in a while - like every 3min, the firebox does still create a big, like 6 sec long CPU spike. I'm skeptical whether this is really caused by the firebox... but I did not see it with the traveller or no interface plugged in. I'm going to continue monitoring the CPU.

I tested idle CPU usage with no audio apps running, and also with a single-track logic pro 8 session loaded, but not playing. I also tested high CPU usage by running an instrument I built in Max/MSP with both interfaces. I used the same buffer size (256 samp, in MaxMSP and Logic) and vector size (256 samp, in MaxMSP) for each interface.

These spikes are in the kernel - the red in activity monitor's CPU history window - not the user space (green) which leads me to believe that they are from the firebox, not from anything I or my user processes are doing.

I didnt get a chance to do the reverb plugins test, so another, real-world test should be done.

Conclusion:
Apple firewire audio driver (and hence firebox) CPU usage is improved in 10.4.11, but not fixed, Preamps on the firebox don't measure up to MOTUs'.

well
I love my MOTU Ultra lite
hands down much better than the firebox

I am considering getting my Ultralite's
Mic Pres Modded
by Busman Audio
he's found on Taperssection dot com

Chris is a great guy
he does mic and mic pre-mods to a variety of gear

the pres are already better than the ones in the firebox
could use some better op amps

I am glad I got a MOTU Ultralite
still running OSX 10.9

I may part with my firebox cheap...

I'm with you - just got my Ultralite a few days ago

Used it for a gig the 2nd day I had it and it was flawless. I can run DSP live that I could not with the Firebox - for my band I've been wanting to run a basic session in Logic with reverb (for our vocalist), delay (for my trumpet) and a an EXS24 sampler, at the same time as a rather demanding patch I wrote in Max/MSP for the wireless wind controller I built. With the firebox, I could not get them both to run at once at a reasonable latency without without MaxMSP freezing up and crapping out...

But now with the ultralite, I can suddenly do it on the exact same computer! Congrats MOTU, you rock.

Pres are nice and quiter than the firebox. Also I can turn the main outs all the way up, and jack my amplifier way up, and hardly hear any noise in my speakers! The output is so quiet. And no more whine from Processor Nap - no more need to run a script to turn it off all the time.

The attention to detail in the interface is astounding - from the flash memory with presets for the internal mixer that can be saved either from the computer or the front panel and recalled with or without a computer, to the ability to record back mix 1, which can include the computer's output.

A killer feature for me is the ability to clock-sync through coreaudio - the MOTU can grab its clock from ANY coreaudio interface connected to your mac, without connecting via S/PDIF or any other physical connection! This is awesome for aggregate devices, as you are no longer relying on always imperfect jitter compensation code - the devices are synced. I've tried this for about 8 minutes - no clicks or pops, vs. clicks/pops after about 3 1/2 min when aggregating the same audio interfaces running under their own clocks.

This rocks when the MOTU is aggregated with Cycling'74's Soundflower virtual audio device. I created a new aggregate device of MOTU + Soundflower (16 ch), set the agg. dev's clock to soundflower, then synced the MOTU's clock to soundflower's. This basically adds 16 additional channels of virtual software-to-software I/O to the MOTU interfafce for sending audio back and forth between, say, Max/MSP and Logic! And it works flawlessly (so far) - no clicks or pops, minimal CPU overhead. Make sure to sync to the correct soundflower, as the MOTU clock menu does not specify which is the 2 channel version and which is the 16... so I chose the 2nd one because on my system the 16 chan one appears 2nd in the audioMIDI setup menu. And make sure to A) remember that the corresponding soundflower ins and outs will be offset by 2, B) Not make feedback loops with soundflower