New I-book, ibook vs powerbook Options

[14Angel]

I'm just about to buy a MAC notebook and I'm still trying to decide whether to go for an ibook or a powerbook. If I were going for the Ibook. It would be the new 1.2 GHz G4 with 512MB and a superdrive.

The alternative is a 15" Powerbook, but this works out at least 600 EUR more even if I just go for an upgraded 15" Combo (512MB RAM, superdrive).

I know the backlit keyboard is nice (and also extra) but I basically seem to be paying an extra 33% for a slightly faster processor (1.33 GHz vs 1.2 GHz) and a faster type of RAM and system bus.

I know there used to be quite a difference between ibooks and powerbooks, but it seems to me (though undoubtably a newcomer to MACs) that with the recently launched models the difference has now become quite slim.

Any opinions? Should I go for an even higher RAM spec (I plan to use it for basic digital recording and as a synth/sampler/noise looper)?

[dixiechicken]

The slightly faster processor will not mean very much as speed or performance goes.

Faster ram and faster systembus will make a difference.
However that will be will negated if you have a slower internal harddrive
(i.e. AT/IDE-100 drive with 4200rpm/5400rpms)

Fast systembus, & fast harddrive, together with a fast graphics card
and fast ram will yield the greatest benefits, performance-wise.
CPU-speed is the least important factor.

When we're talking ram memory the golden rule is simple,
get as much ram as your computer can handle .

Mac OS-X has many strong points, however speed and resource-efficiency is NOT
among those.
Managing the memory thats available for Mac OS-X system though,
is done in an efficient manner, like all *nix/Linux os:es.

Cheers: Dixiechicken

[14Angel]

Thanks Dixiechicken. I went for the 1.2GHz ibook in the end which I am using right now. Both the Powerbook & the iBook offer 4200rpm IDE drives (with an option to upgrade on the highest spec powerbooks to 5400 rpm) so there was nothing between them on that front. I went for 768MB of RAM (above that the price jumps considerably). Now I am thinking about my audio interfaces and it looks like an MBox!

[jofferman]

Hey 14Angel! Since I'm sort of pondering about the same iBook vs PowerBook decision (see my post in Getting Started), I was wondering how you are doing with the iBook, now you've been using it for a couple of months...

I'm hoping you're lovin' it and have created tons of beautiful music already

gr,
Jim.

[14Angel]

Hi Jofferman. Apart from some initial teething problems ( I had to send the ibook back twice to get the superdrive fixed), it's been working out fine. I've just completed assembling my working configuration; I spread the purchases to correspond with my cashflow! which is a 768MB RAM ibook 1.25Ghz CPU with Mbox/Protools and a 160GB firewall external drive. From reading your post on Getting Started it looks like your requirements are much greater than mine at the moment as I am only recording on a couple of tracks. With regards to resource usage, I've had some problems on protools when using a lot of plugins on tracks etc. Most of these date back to the time when I was recording straight onto the ibook hard drive. It also may have been due to my not spending any time on configuring CPU usage parameters, etc.

Though I have no experience using Powerbooks, I still stand my opinion that on the basis of numbers, there is very little difference between the ibook and the 15" powerbook. What you seem to be paying for is the snazzier design and more
ports (many of which seem to be for video). The new ibooks are pretty snazzy anyway and I've got over the lack of a backlit keyboard! Best of luck in whatever you go for.

[jofferman]

Hey!

Thanks for the info! Glad to hear you're doing ok
I'll let you know what I end up with!

gr,
Jim.

[lushbudget]

Hey there - I just gotta say that there are some MAJOR differences between the G4 iBooks and the PowerBooks - especially where musicians are concerned!
For one there is the RAM deal - PowerBooks can hold up to 2gb, iBooks only 1.25gb - the more plugins and tracks you use, the more RAM you need to avoid lags and latency. Also, PowerBook RAM is faster, PC2700 RAM that runs at 333Mhz VS. the iBook's 267Mhz PC2100 RAM. More speed means better overall performance and less waiting for your work to become sound!
Secondly there is the VideoRAM. 32Mb is the Max on an iBook, 128Mb (max) or 64Mb (standard) for a PowerBook. If you plan on pushing a big display and making use of OS X's awesome video spanning, you'll be glad you have the extra power to handle the video rather than taxing your CPU for the job, thereby leaving your G4 free to handle more audio tasks!
Third there is the system bus. 133Mhz on an iBook, 167Mhz on a PowerBook - more push, less pull! And the L2 cache isa bit faster on a PowerBook as well (keeps often used instructions in RAM rather than on the HD so...it's faster!)
One last thing, and I think this is important cause I use it and know others that do too - The PBooks come with Gig-ethernet, which is 100% faster than T/100. If you use a music file-server like we do at my little studio, that extra speed makes ALL the difference in getting a job done! Moving huge audio files from the server to my PowerBook takes seconds, but with my wife's G3 iBook it takes minutes.
I know they seem a lot alike, but under that snazzy aluminum case if a WHOLE lot more Mac, and well worth the investment if you plan on using it as your main machine. I have a Titanium PowerBook G4 87Mhz that I use during live shows/rehearsals, etc. I LOVE it and am glad I spent the extra $ last year when I bought it.
My bass player has a G4 iBook, and I had to use it during a gig because my TiBook was in the shop getting a new SuperDrive. I gotta tell you, I truly noticed the diference in performance!
The iBook ran out of RAM quickly when I loaded my Live 3 scenes, and I had to trim them back in order to play them. I was unable to use all the plugins I had running on my real instrument tracks in ProTools, having to cut them by a third. also, I was limited to playing back 8 tracks of audio (heavily effected and processed) as opposed to my usual 12. The iBook was a G4 1Ghz with 640Mb of RAM.
Don't get me wrong, the iBook is a rockin' Mac - but if you really need all-out performance, then the PowerBook is the way to go!
If my 867Mhz TiBook can smoke a 1Ghz G4 iBook, then there MUST be some major differences!
Jason T
AKA lushbudget

Titanium PowerBook G4 867Mhz, 1Gb RAM
PowerMac G5 Dual 2Ghz, 1Gb RAM
MBox - Edirol PCR-30 - Digitech DSP128
ProTools LE 6 - Ableton Live 3 - Reason - GarageBand
Amplitube LE - SampleTank 2 - T-Racks -

[jofferman]

It seems lushbudget is right... that is, after plowing through tons of postings (on various forums), that seems to be the overall consensus is that an iBook isn't heavy weight enough to handle lots of samples. So, no iBook for me...

I'm now looking into a 15" PowerBook Combo vs. a 1.8 GHz PowerMac. Either way, that's stretching my budget a little - okay, a lot

On the other hand, buying a machine that cannot handle the things I want to do would be even more expensive in the end - I'd get all frustrated and end up buying the PB or G5 anyway.

I'm slightly inclined to put off buying a laptop until those G5 PowerBooks are available. Maybe even wait for the G6 version

[bubbledave]

I am actually going through a similar debate right now and money is definitely a factor. I currently have a decent home setup (PowerMac DP500 w/ 1.5GB Ram, MOTO 2408, 1 SCSI/160 HD + 2 ATA's and 2 80GB Ext FW Drives running DP4 w/ Sylus and Mach Five w/ an Edirol midi keyboard) but have a small apt and a 17 month old who is obsessed w/ my computer. I am renting a monthly rehearsal space and am itching to make projects more mobile. I've just been offered a practically brand new 12" 1GHz iBook with an Airport card for $900 and it may or may not have Apple Care. Then I'd probaly go out and buy an inexpensive FW audio input box and be able to take my keyboard as well and do audio w/ Stylus and Mach Five. I know I'd get nothing for my home setup so I'm really just looking for a secondary, portable solution so I'm able to record and use my rehearsal space more for recording. If I went for a Power Book I'd be looking at spending roughly double what I can get the iBook for...and I'd still need to buy an audio interface. I figure I could use one of my external FW HDs as a recording drive and buy 512 RAM to goose itto 768. I'm really not looking to do much more than a few audio tracks at a time (8 would be the max) and mostly I'd be doing Stylus and Mach Five tracks. Will I be pulling my hair out? Should I go into further debt just for a little extra speed or is the iBook good enough?

[lushbudget]

Assuming that your iBook is a G4 model you should be able to do most of the things you've described w/out too much trouble. You won't notice much difference in overall performance compared to your DP500Mhz G4 - the iBook should run at an almost even performance level depending on how goosed your PowerMac is.


$900 for 1Ghz iBook G4 is a decent price. Apple sells the same machine REFURBISHED for $849. They have other good deals, so check 'em out! A used FireWire 410 or similar device will run another $250-400 or you could buy a USB device like M-Audiophile or Digidesign MBox -

Your FW Hard Drive will be neccessary, so remember that iBooks and 12" PBook's only have 1 FW port! A hub is NOT recommended for recording, and USB 2 drives have been reported as having compatibilty issues with some software (ProTools LE for one) A 15 or 17" PBook comes with 2 FW prts (400 & 800) so you could run both a FW Drive (a FW400 drive can be adapted to the 800 port) and a FW Interface.

Another option would be a PC card audio interface - (only the 15 and 17" models again) There are some good ones out there, but they are usually line-level input only.

My vote would be for a used or refurbished 15" PowerBook with a 40Gb iPod and an Mbox (USB) But that is just me (and is exactly what I use for my mobile rig)

This post has been edited by lushbudget: Sun 26 Sep 2004, 21:47