Help With Mixer Setup, using 1/8" audio in on my PBG4/667 Options

[evanmcd]

Hi, I am really impressed by this site and forum; my first time here today. Great job to all those responsible.

I've been struggling with this problem for a while now and have just bought a new mixer (Eurodesk MX-802) with the hope that my old mixer (Spirit Folio) was the problem. It seems, however, that it's not my mixer but my lack of knowledge that is the problem.

I'm a drummer looking to do multi-track recording with my PB G4/667 and Cubase 4.1. Here's how my mixer is setup:

- Electronic drums (Roland V-Drums - the best!) coming in to one of my mixers 1/4" stereo inputs.
- 1/8" output from computer into mixers RCA tape in (for monitoring output from Cubase)
- tape in is sent to main mix (which I'm not using) so that I don't get signal from cubase sent back in to computer.

The problem comes when trying to get a stereo output from the mixer in to my 1/8" stereo input on my computer.

I've tried using the RCA tape out, the 1/4" control room outs, and even the AUX send, but all I get is a mono signal in cubase.

I thought that it must be a problem with my input jack, but after a while I tried sending my headphone out to the computer... and it sounded great! perfect strong stereo signal.

I've tried monitoring the output through the computers out rather than sending it to the mixer, but I get horrible latency.

So I guess my question is: how do I rig my setup so it works correctly?

I won't be surprised (or too embarrassed) if there turns out to be a simple solution, but I've tried lots of things and searched this forum for answers and still am at a loss.

Thanks so much to anyone who might help me out with this.

Sincerely...Evan

[ctrlaltdel]

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cata...%5Fid=274%2D888

from my understanding, at should do it, yes?

[evanmcd]

hey ctrlaltdel,

thanks for the reply. actually, that is the exact adapter I am currently using.

I've got all the adapters for that sort of thing (you should see the pile of 'em I have!); the problem comes once the connection is made: no stereo signal.

I don't know much about how the outputs work - I've got 2 1/4" plugs (marked L and R) to which I have plugged in a 1/4" cable in each, which then go to the aforementioned adapter and in to my 1/8" in jack.

I would have thought that this would give me the signal I want, but I only get it when using the headphone out jack.

Thanks ctrlaltdel,

Evan

[ctrlaltdel]

ah, i see, i misunderstood the problem. hmm, other than checking to see that the settings for both the TiBook, the audio app, and the V-Drums are all set to stereo output/recording. that's about all i can think of.

[trlynham]

I can probably help you out here. I've got a similar set-up, but there are a couple of things that I'm unclear on, they're sort of interrelated, so sorry if they seem to overlap a bit:

A: You say 'Electronic drums coming in to one of my mixer's 1/4" stereo inputs.' There are no stereo inputs on that mixer, or any mixer I can think of really. You can pan the signal up the middle, but since the input on the mixer only has two contacts (mono signal and ground), you've already lost one side, and you're sending two lefts or two rights. If this is your problem, then you need to split the stereo out from the v-drums brain into two mono 1/4" cables and then input these into two separate mixer channels, panned hard left and right.

B: You don't mention which brain you've got, but I'm assuming that when you say "in to one of my mixer's 1/4" inputs" you're using a single stereo cable out of maybe the headphone jack? If you're not using all of the outputs from the back of the brain into individual channels, then I'm not certain that you need a mixer at all. Perhaps you are running other equipment through the mixer, or you don't yet have the need to effect, EQ or apply gain to the v-drums outputs individually before sending it to the computer. Between the controls inside the drum brain and the effects and what-not in Cubase, you can do pretty well, but if you want to monitor those effects without any latency at all (or intend to play along with a delay or whatever), then it's necessary to use the mixer. I'm digressing a bit, but I guess my question is, what is the mixer doing for you?

C: When you say, "I've tried monitoring the output through the computer's out rather than sending it to the mixer, . . ." I'm guessing that this is what the mixer might be for. Why not just monitor from the headphone out on the v-drums brain? I know that you're not getting a stereo signal for your recording, and that's really the problem here, but if you're not able to monitor what's coming back from the computer without latency, then there's really not going to be any difference between the v-drums headphone out and the mixer's headphone, or monitor, or main, or tape out.

D: Finally (and this might insult your intelligence a bit - I apologize in advance) I want to make sure that when you say, "but after a while I tried sending my headphone out to the computer... and it sounded great! perfect strong stereo signal." that the 'strong stereo signal' was truly stereo, not just a mono signal coming out of both speakers. I once met a guy who set himself up with a 'surround-sound' home theater setup which consisted of five speakers all daisy-chained with radio shack adapters into his mono-out rca jack on the back of his crappy old VCR. He was bragging about how much smarter he was than all those losers who paid all that money for their 'home theater' setups. I tried not to be too much of a prick when I asked him, "do you know what stereo is?" Anyway, just thought I'd make sure - probably with the drums you can hear them move around in the stereo picture as you move around the drum kit.

So let me know if this clarifies anything for you, and if not, maybe with a little more information we can get your v-drums to fill up your cubase as they ought to.

Good luck, Tom

[evanmcd]

gosh trlynham, thanks so much for your thoughtful response. i really appreciate it.

I'll try to clarify:

A: when i say 1/4" stereo input, i actually do mean 2 1/4" mono inputs. the reason i say stereo input is because that's the terminology the mixer manufacturer uses for them because they are grouped together under control of one channel strip (level, eq, etc.). i could try using 2 separate mono inputs, but i don't really need individual control over each side of the stereo signal.

B: i have the TD10 v-drum brain (is that what you mean by brain). i'm using the main outputs which are a pair of 1/4" outs so those go right into the aforementioned inputs on the mixer. the reason i need a mixer is because i'll have other instruments to record as well (guitar, bass, keyboard - not that i play them all well, but enough for fun which i want to keep connected to the mixer so i don't have to swap plugs all the time. plus i'll have one of my real guitar player friends over to record once in a while.

C: i guess the above might answer why i don't use the v-drums for monitoring, though i hadn't even thought of that idea before.

D: heh heh, no, i don't feel insulted by that question - i don't think i'm that far above that being the problem. however, i'm quite sure that what i'm getting is a stereo signal from the headphone out. when going from the cntrl room outs i do get sound in both ears, but it seems to be just a mono signal and hence my problem.

So, thanks again. hopefully I'll get this worked out.

Evan

[trlynham]

Alright Evanmcd-

You answered all of my questions successfully, and it sounds like you're doing everything right in terms of the mixer and brain inputs & outputs (by the way, I guess the term 'brain' is a throwback to the days of the old Simmons drums, when we all thought that electronic drums were going to take over the world!)
However, as you mentioned, I would use two separate mono channels while you're troubleshooting, just so that you can isolate the left and rights as much as possible. I've got a Behringer MX 1604, which also has the 'stereo' channels for inputs 5-12, but when I'm just hooking up one stereo device I like to use channels 1 & 2 so that I can EQ the left and right independently. If you've panned the individual v-drums left or right within the TD-10 to create an accurate stereo 'picture' of a drum kit (i.e., hi hat on the right, ride on the left, etc.) then you may want to be able to EQ and/or effect the two sides separately. But for now, separate mono channels are just a means of figuring out what's being received by the computer and what's not. Oh, and make sure that channel 1 is panned hard left and channel 2 panned hard right.
For even more clarity, go into the td-10 and pan the bass drum all the way to the left and the snare drum all the way to the right. Then create a Cubase project with two audio tracks, with "Audio 01" set up to receive on "In 1" and "Audio 02" to receive on "In 2". Open up the mixer. Now when you hit the bass drum, the meter in "Audio 01" should jump, and the snare should do the same on "Audio 02".
Okay -- if what I just described doesn't happen (and it probably won't, otherwise we wouldn't be here) then we've isolated the problem down to either your basic audio settings in cubase or your computer's audio input configuration.
What type of audio interface are you using? You only mention the 1/8" input, but is there any other way to get audio into your computer that might be configured as the default 'stereo' input? I'm certainly not a software 'techie', but if you configure things the way that I suggested, you'll be much more adept if and when you have to call cubase or your audio hardware manufacturer. They are the best source when it comes to minute little driver problems and what-not, but I've always found that if I streamline my problem first, and do as much isolating as possible with the hardware that is probably not the problem, then the tech-support bullshit gets where I want it to a lot faster.
I'm probably signing off on your problem here, because I don't really have much more to offer in terms of hardware issues, but if you need any more help or clarification, feel free to e-mail me at trlynham@yahoo.com.
Good luck, Tom

[evanmcd]

hey tom,

thanks again for the reply.

i've good news to report in that i've got the setup working the way i had hoped. the unfortunate part is that i must say i'm not really sure what i did that fixed the problem.

i went out and bought a couple of new 1/4" to rca adapters and started to tackle the problem again. it wasn't fixed right away, but little by little things started to get closer to right. i'd noticed that both L and R bars of my stereo track in cubase would light up. even though it didn't sound any different to me. then i fiddled with some things in cubase that i hadn't touched before and noticed that sometimes i'd get a flash of what sounded like a stereo signal in my headphones. eventually i switched the headphone adapater i was using and suddenly i had a stereo signal as strong as ever.

so, i guess it was some combination of bad adapter (or adapters ) and lack of cubase knowledge on my part. whatever it was, i now have a working setup that sounds quite good by my standards.

i can't imagine that i'll get to the point where i could offer you tech advice, but if you ever need someone to lay down a drum groove for you, i'd be happy to help you out.

take it easy.

evan

[trlynham]

Hey Evan-

The day I need somebody to lay down a drum groove for me is the day that my ass falls off, but thanks for the offer . I'm glad that you got things working, and that it was (probably) an adapter/cable/headphone issue. As you record stuff and work with Cubase more I'm sure that you'll determine the exact reason for the anomalies, but at least you didn't have to waste too much time and money to get what you wanted. Good luck to you with your musical endeavors, and cheers to a happy ending.

Tom