Help Needed Over Whether To Get Cubase/logic, logic illogical? Cubase badly written? Options

[Drainland]

Hi,

I'm just about to get an iMac g4 800mhz for making music. Up until now I"ve been using an atari 1040ST and Cubase for pure sequencing and syncing vox etc from multitrack.

It's looking to me like Cubase / Logic are the main choices and although my instinct is to go with Cubase, as I've used it for years on the ST, I'm put off by a lot of the comments I've been reading about running it on OSX. Logic sounds really good, however I'm reading a lot about how difficult it can be to use. A lot of people are saying Cubase is a lot more intuitive and "fun". I think I read somewhere that Logic started life as "notator" on the ST and I could not get my head around that at all - so I opted for Cubase.

So I'm really not sure what to do. I want something that works well on the Mac platform - but something that's easy to use.

This is for a bedroom set up. Few hardware synths, sampler, bunch of outboard. I need decent audio and midi abilities.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

[xingu]

I have an iMac G4 700 and run Logic Audio (bought the Big Box) under 10.2.4 with no problems at all. My main reason for choosing it was the price versus Cubase SX - or even SL (still half the price). However, I primarily do relatively simple audio work at home (generally no more than 12 tracks) and haven't even dug into the MIDI capabilities of Logic yet (which, from what I've read are where the true power of the application are). I do most of my MIDI work in Reason and just export it to Logic.

I can say that the audio side of Logic is simple enough, as this is my first DAW. Not sure of your exact needs, but at the moment, I didn't need the extra features in Logic Gold or Platinum, especially when considering the price. To weigh your options, check out the feature comparison chart of the three versions of Logic here. But be cautious - while the basic capabilities should be accurate, I'm pretty sure this chart is for the 3 versions of Logic 6 (because there's features listed for Audio and Gold that don't exist yet) and Platinum is the only version of 6 that has been released so far.

Aside from seeing a lot of heartache on the cubase.net Mac forum over the current OSX releases, there have been a number of people that really dig it and don't have that many problems. It's a tough decision, because both programs essentially do the same thing. In the long haul, another plus for Logic is Apple's purchase of emagic - so you can be assured that the program is going to work well with the OS (and it does). And I don't know how simple the atari setup is, but Logic does come with a good help function (which has the entire manual plus some), which I tend to reference for specific stuff as I go along and get deeper into the program. And then there's these great forums with tons of experienced people who can answer your questions.

Which brings up another point - do a search of this and other forums around the newbie threads and you should get tons more insight/answers/arguments/questions/what have you. Good luck!

[rickenbacker]

Pretty comprehensive answer from xingu, there - good work, fella!

I'll just add that I run both Cubase SX and Logic 5.5 and generally prefer SX. I just like the way it works for me and never seems to trip me up or get in my way when recording, if you know what I mean.

I've also got a lot of OS X VSTis and FX, so SX is the only one that I can use them in. Sure, the companies might come out with AU versions sooner or later, but today and tomorrow I'll be using them in SX.

SX does seem to be taking a beating in some forums, but I'm slightly suspicious that it's just a handy whipping boy. It's never crapped out on me in any serious way... so far. Anyway, Logic has given me enough headaches over recent months, so she ain't so saint either!

Tough call, but they both do the same thing. Go with what you like best.

[Drainland]

Thanks guys for the help - and Xingu that was pretty comprehensive.

OK I think I'm going to opt for Logic - either Gold 5 or maybe go for platinum 6 because I need some of the features that the basic package doesn't have. I've rang several dealers as well after the posts and the consensus seems to be go Logic if on Mac. Even spoke to an old ST Cubase user who went Logic. I understand that it can be a bit difficult to set up but once you've done that things are ok.

Another question though - will it be fine running it on the G4 800mhz iMac? I know Emagic recommend getting a dedicated harddrive for it - but I can't afford this on top of all the other bits and pieces I need. So will the internal one be fine? I won't really be using the computer for anything else apart from music.

And presumably I can just make back ups to either CDRs or zip disks?

Thanks again! These macmusic forums are a beautiful thing.

[xingu]

Heh, I try to give back. It was guys like Rickenbacker here that helped get me going last fall. I just tries to calls em as I sees em.

All I can say to your new inquiry is that I have things running fine with LA5.5 on my G4 700 iMac, but my processing requirements might not be as high as yours (considering you need either Gold or Plat). I would guess you'll be ok provided your configuration meets the required specs that emagic lists.

I did a considerable amount of research on the external drive question, and wound up with an OWC Mercury Elite 80G firewire drive for Christmas (a great way to overcome any financial restrictions ). Ideally, you never want to put audio files on the same drive as your OS and apps (audio meaning Logic or Cubase song files - regular old audio like mp3s are ok). A search of this forum for "external drive" will tell you that quick enough. I did run my system (granted, not every day or anything) for 6 months before I got the OWC without any problems. I believe the best way to do things if you have to stick with the internal drive is to partition so the audio app is sitting on a different partition from the audio. I know nothing about setting this up, but it is definitely discussed some on this forum so try doing a search.

Sure, you can backup to CD or whatever, but that's not the point of the external drive. I think it has to do with handling the processes of the application at the same time as searching for/reading/writing all the multiple audio files during playback and recording, but I'm no tech-whiz. You might want to also try searching for external drive and partitioning info. at the cubase.net forum - I seem to recall finding a wealth of advice and background there as well. Short and sweet - it's possible, just not recommended for the ideal setup.

Just thought of one other thing- and I only bring this up because you didn't specifically mention it and it might mean a larger investment than you anticipated. The new iMacs (including mine) do not have audio inputs, so you will need an audio interface if you don't already have one. That old Atari also has a MIDI port too, doesn't it? Again, no dice with the iMac, but you were probably already aware of that.

[gidfiddler]

dp 4 will be here soon maybe U could wait 2 C what the consensus is with it 1

[xingu]

One of the admins over at the Tascam forum just posted this in reply to somebody asking about partitioning:

"Partitioning a drive is not the same as using a separate device. While partitioning a drive is a great way to keep the styluses (the lasers that read the multiple platters in your hard drive) in a more confined area and thus faster at accessing data in that partition...reading off of two partitions at once slows down the entire drive, as the styluses can not be in two places at the same time.
Even though you may have the audio set to record and playback from a different partition than the applications, the apps still have to communicate with the rest of the system, meaning that you are essentailly reading and writing from both partitions as once............think about it like having the needle on a record player reading track 11 and track 1 at the same time, and doing it so that you can't hear any gaps in playback. It would have to be really fast eh? That's why God invented buffers...

A separate drive is one way to increase your performance..."

Take it for what it's worth... Like I said, I used the internal drive on my iMac (albeit in a limited capacity) for about 6 months without any problems. My advice would be to go with what you have and save up to get an external drive as soon as you can.

[petterw]

About partitioning: I have used my old beige G3 for nearly five years on a daily professional basis (sound design/modern electronica/post production/programming) without partitioning and without any problems at all...but I recently acquired a LaCie D2 80 GB FireWire due to lack of space. Mind you, I always save my projects to CD and try to take care of my harddrive (defragmentation + +) with Norton. I use Cubase VST 32 v. 4.1, Reason, Live, Reaktor, Retro, etc.....

Cheers,
petter

[Drainland]

Thanks again guys for all your help and special thanks to Xingu for more in-depth responses.

I don't need all the extras of Logic Gold (or platium 6 assuming it has everying gold has - I was going by that comparison list at emagic), but I do need things like compression, being able to record with effects, the various sound enhancers (like exciter etc) and I really think the audio to midi groove template thing sounds like a great idea.

I guess it makes sense to have all the audio files on another drive but I think that would have to come a little in the future for me - because of finances.

Yes I mentioned the backing up as a seperate thing - I'm trying to make sure I have everything covered here.

Thanks Xingu yes - I did know about the interface and the midi box. I was thinking of going for the Motu 828 (been recommend by a dealer) and I think it's the emagic Mt4? for midi (2 ins and 4 outs). Looks like this is going to cost a bit with the iMac and everything! Maybe even more than you guys in the US as things tend to be more expensive in the UK generally (where I am).

So again if anyone can see any pitfalls I'm heading towards - or other comments on the interface or anything else etc, then I'd love to know.

Many thanks again to all you good Mac people!

[rickenbacker]

If you can wait until April for the interface, M-Audio will be releasing their new budget-priced but pro-specced Firewire device. Lots of audio I/O options, plus it has Midi, too.

I'm really hoping it'll be half decent, because at £349 for a Firewire device it's an all-in-one answer to my interfacing prayers. M-Audio have a distinctly dodgy rep for their drivers round here, but fingers crossed they've ironed those problems out and the 410 will be a winner. On paper, it's fantastic. Might be worth a look for you - www.m-audio.com, I think.