Midi Gliss..please Help! Options

[highlander2]

Im trying to produce a realistic gliss (portamento, or glide) between two notes or two intervals of a solo string sampled instrument.

I want to be able to specify the starting and ending notes or intervals, and have them seen, sound, and show up as such, in a notation program, and in the sequencers notation.

Any SPECIFIC ideas how to do this?

Any help will be GRATEFULLY appreciated!

Thanks Bob


PS:
the ways Ive seen online are the following:

1)

****This method requires that your MIDI device supports standard “Registered Parameter Messages”
(RPMs), which is common but not universal.

1. Set controllers RPN (100 for MSB and 101 for LSB) to 0.
2. Set data entry (controller 6(MSB) and 38(LSB)) to the number of semitones and 128ths of a semitone that you need. For example, setting controller 6 to 12 will allow you to have 12 semitones (1 octave) as the maximum range up and down. The default range is 2 semitones usually
3. Now, at the places where glissando or portamento is required, create curves in pitch bend (NOT a controller!). You should take into account the range you set above. E.g. a curve from pitch bend 0 to 4096 will be a glissando from the original note to 6 semitones above (augmented fourth); a curve from 0 to -1365 will be a sliding from the original note to 2 semitones below--provided that you set data entry to 12. If you set data entry to 6, however, the same pitch bends will give you half the effect (i.e. 3 semitones above and 1 semitone below, respectively).
4. Be sure to set pitch bend back to 0 after the glissando passage is done (it is not reset by controller 121, since it's not a controller).

--The problems I've had with the above is that you cant specify BOTH intervals, as one is sounded by a pitch bend event, and I cant get more that 4 semitones pitch bend, even though CC#6 is set to 12
============
2)

Portamento

*** This control change is not supported by all MIDI devices

Portamento is a smooth “glide” from one note to another (rather like a glissando played on a trombone).
1) Set CC#5 to 0–127, which controls the length of time taken to perform the portamento (0 is fastest, 127 is slowest),
2( Set CC#84 to 0–127 which determines the distance of the portamento (values below 60 start below the note, values above 60 start above
the note; the precise interval depends on the MIDI device).

So you must first “set up” the portamento effect with a CC#5 message, and then attach the CC#84 message to the note on which the portamento occurs.

---The problems Ive had with the above is that it simply does nothing, so it must not be supported, in my equipment.

Again, Any help will be GRATEFULLY appreciated!

[houstonmusic]

This one's a holy grail. While any composer would simply notate starting and target pitches and let the performer do the rest. SAMPLERS just don't work that way.

i do appreciate the scripting possibilities in Kontakt.... i've got some great sounding slides in some of the more expensive string libraries. Are they convincing past 3 semi tones? No. can i control the speed? No.

Physical Modeling allows this sort of thing, but not really sampling. There are libraries with a collection of slides and glisses included. patient, clever programming on your part can make the "performance" sound fairly convincing and musical.

lately, i've been writing out parts, hiring human beings, and recording performances. remarkable.
good luck.

[highlander2]

Thanks for replying--and for your thoughts:)

[kayj_prod]

It seems to
me that you just need to know how to score this- presumably to print or hand to another musician.
My work flow is to produce a sequence that sounds right first. I then adapt this and save as another version prepared as a score. Adapting means far harsher quantisation than sounds musical, correcting note lengths to simplify reading and re-writing pitch bends/gliss as two start/end notes.
It's a chore, but the only way to produce a good score. I use Sibelius for my scoring though sequencer packages can do a reasonable job these days.
A glissando looks like two notes with a diagonal line between usually saying gliss underneath.

[tweedmusic]

Hi Bob ,
Which solo sampled string instrument are you referring to ?
There are limitations with some Virtual Instruments responding to Standard Midi Continuous Controllers , particularly Pitch Bend , however no conclusion or advise can be offered unless you specify the Virtual Instrument.
It is very refreshing to see the language of Midi being articulated correctly in this forum.

[highlander2]

It seems to
me that you just need to know how to score this- presumably to print or hand to another musician.
My work flow is to produce a sequence that sounds right first. I then adapt this and save as another version prepared as a score. Adapting means far harsher quantisation than sounds musical, correcting note lengths to simplify reading and re-writing pitch bends/gliss as two start/end notes.
It's a chore, but the only way to produce a good score. I use Sibelius for my scoring though sequencer packages can do a reasonable job these days.
A glissando looks like two notes with a diagonal line between usually saying gliss underneath.

Thanks so much for replying--

but no, I know the notation for it, and how to score it ( Im a Sib user also:) but am actually trying to hear the result in a sequencer, (and record it) and produce it via midi, and not have it sample library dependent.

The sampled libraries I have dont have reg. glisses:)

Thanks so much:)

Bob

Hi Bob ,
Which solo sampled string instrument are you referring to ?
There are limitations with some Virtual Instruments responding to Standard Midi Continuous Controllers , particularly Pitch Bend , however no conclusion or advise can be offered unless you specify the Virtual Instrument.
It is very refreshing to see the language of Midi being articulated correctly in this forum.

Hi..thanks so much for replying..its for a Violin, and I'm using Ircam Solo Instruments, and X sample Solo strings (as Kontakt 2 is needed for ths SIPS scripts mentioned below.)

Neither have samples of regular glisses, so Im attempting to do it thru midi.

Since posting I was able to get around the pitch bend limitation and increase it to an octave (or more, if necessary) via the SIPS Super Bender Script-

http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/sips/sips.htm

(The portamento script there works REALLY nicely also:).and I've emailed the author for help also)

But Im still having problems getting the corect desired first and last note, using these ranges

http://www.dosguys.com/RA-guitar/!!...ysEx--Chart.htm

And Im producing these PB curves with "Create Continuous Data" in Digital Performer 5.13.

Any dieas?


Thanks so much for your reply and kind words:)
Bob

This post has been edited by highlander2: Tue 20 Oct 2009, 13:14

[kayj_prod]

Ah, apologies if I was patronising!
One of my old Yamaha synths could use a controller to specify the first note of a portamento slide. You had to be very careful of sending the correct sequence of controllers but that was very useful. It's sometimes useful digging through the MIDI spec of a plug-in/device to uncover hidden functions. It sounds to me like you've already done that though!

I've used pitch bend range to do as you're trying relying on my ear to make sure I get the right start note- remember PB is a higher res controller so you don't hear the step from semitone to semitone as you would if it were a mere 128 steps.

[highlander2]

Ah, apologies if I was patronising!
One of my old Yamaha synths could use a controller to specify the first note of a portamento slide. You had to be very careful of sending the correct sequence of controllers but that was very useful. It's sometimes useful digging through the MIDI spec of a plug-in/device to uncover hidden functions. It sounds to me like you've already done that though!

I've used pitch bend range to do as you're trying relying on my ear to make sure I get the right start note- remember PB is a higher res controller so you don't hear the step from semitone to semitone as you would if it were a mere 128 steps.

Hi..thanks so much for replying:)

I figured out how to do it--its complex and still has shortcomings, notation wise.
And before starting the pitch bend range has to be increased to an octave, which as I mentioned was accomplshed by the Super Bender Script

1. Set controllers RPN (100 for MSB and 101 for LSB) to 0.
2. Set data entry (controller 6(MSB) and 38(LSB)) to the number of semitones and 128ths of a semitone that you need. Forexample, setting controller 6 to 12 will allow you to have 12 semitones (1 octave) as the maximum range up and down. The default range is 2 semitones usually. Set controller 38 to 0.
3. You then take the Destination pitch, of the gliss and put it at the measure/beat/tick where the Starting pitch would be. The Starting pitch is NEVER seen, as the Starting pitch is sounded by a Pitch Bend event according to the previously posted chart.

http://www.dosguys.com/RA-guitar/!!...ysEx--Chart.htm

So for a quarter note gliss, F3 on 1/1/000 going to G3 on 1/2/000:

1) The G3 is actually moved to 1/1/000, This is actually our Destination pitch, and the Starting pitch (F3) is sounded by a pitch bend event ...in this case, ~-1365 which is a Major Second, and its minus as its an ascending Major 2nd.
2) A Continuous Data curve is then generated, from 1/1/000-1/2/000 consisting of Pitch Bend events, consisting of values -~1365 to ~0.
3) The F3 is then sounded at 1/1/000 by the pitch bend events, with the G3 being sounded at 1/2/000 as a regular note on event.

It sounds good, but notation wise, all that shows up in a notation program is the destination pitch, at the point in time the sounding pitch would occur.

Yeah, I know it sounds strange..LOL..but it works!


Thanks for replying:)

Bob

[highlander2]

HI emerson2003--

Thanks so much for replying--

this is the EXACT way Ive done it, and if you read thru this topic, you'll see I've posted this very same method in this thread, in previous posts.

Thanks again for your help:)

Bob

[lepetitmartien]

this is the EXACT way Ive done it, and if you read thru this topic, you'll see I've posted this very same method in this thread, in previous posts.

This was spam of some sort (copy paste with links inserted in), emerson2003 is about to be lazerized. Thanks Houstonmusic for the alert, you rock.