Basic Setup - Recommendations? Options

[Horse Bodotes]

I have been asked to set up a basic midi/recording/editing system for my 13 yo daughter. She has a Yamaha S80 kb, and wants to go to the next step. Although we are a PC house, I am seriously thinking about getting her a used/refurb Power Mac G4 for music. She wants to make and record techno/jazz, and besides the kb she wants inputs for mics, guitar and who knows what else.

Questions: should I get her an mBox, or would I be better off getting a used Digi 001 on eBay. Or something else??? Is Pro Tools LE easy for a (reasonably computer-saavy) 13 yo to use, or will something else be easier.

Unfortunately, I am going to wind up being her IT support, so I want to keep this as simple as possible. But, I want to get her setup so she is happy with the results.
All suggestions/comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

HB

[boze]

i'm gonna get attacked for saying this, but there's no good reason for you to buy a mac to help your daughter make music. not only are they more expensive at every level, but the new osx update is going to mean broken drivers all around for the short term.

don't get me wrong, running osx on a mac is a good way to make music and artsy folks have always been partial to apple hw. but if you're going to be supporting this machine and you understand basic windoze stuff better then i'd say just stick with that.

the mbox is still a nice option, as is the digi001. and hell yes a 13yr old can learn to track audio in any of the daw software big names. it's like anything else with learning a sw program: you know what you want to do and the first time maybe it's a pain in the ass to figure it out but once you have struggled through the basics of setting up your interface, recording audio to a track, and basic editing and mixing you forget that it wasn't second nature.

the main soundcard questions are 1) what are my input/output needs? and 2) how stable are the drivers for this product in my os of choice?

keyboard, mic, and guitar doesn't necessarily add up to three inputs unless they're all being played at once.

i was mac only for years and now i own a vaio laptop in addition to my dual ghz G4 tower and i get way more done on the pc because 1) osx is slow, 2) some of the software and hw i use is not well-supported in osx, and 3) G4s are just not very fast computers for the money compared to what you can get in the windoze world, so it limits the number of effects and virtual instruments you can use. i'm just saying don't sleep on windows for audio, there's nothing wrong with it past image.

maybe the tascam us-428 would be a good fit since it has 4ins, midi, and some basic mixer functionality that could be used to control mixing on-screen.
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let us know how it works out-- i've always been kinda weirded out by how folks like me (i'm 33) can have an entire career based on using one or two pieces of sw. i'm sure that most teenagers could be trained to do what most of the computer ppl i've worked with do without too much fuss. not that there aren't advanced designers and developers with professional training that really matters on some projects- but half the time i'm just telling some random person or a family member or my girlfriend how to do something in photoshop or Word for their work and it's nothing past the level of what a teen could pick up pretty quickly.

[Horse Bodotes]

boze,

Thanks for your quick and informative reply. Yes, she wants a Mac but I am strongly leaning in that diewction as well. We have 5 PCs in the house, and I know that it sounds silly to add another platform. But, frankly, I am not looking forward to supporting s/w w/ steaming data requirements (besides which I know nothing about) on XP Pro. It kind of boils down to "killing two birds w/ one stone"...

I must add that I don't consider myself computer-stupid. I have run a systems integration firm for 16 years, and I am quite comfortable w/ U**X, Windows and Linux. If Linux was a real option, I would be there in a second. But this machine is going to be located downstairs in the "studio" (converted playroom), and I don't want to see it, hear it or touch it unless it is absolutely necessary. While my daughter expects something that will work and I want something she can grow with, she is also only 13. I figure that in 18-24 months it will be time for a new system anyway, and prices for 1-1.25 GHz G4 Power Macs are reasonable (sic).

The thing that I am really asking is if PT LE s/w is the best way to go. A lot of folks swear by Logic and Cubase; is there a significant difference for a new e-muscian that doesn't have the liability of previous experience. How well does PT LE handle midi (I read conflicting reports)? For the present, my daughter wants to sequence from her kb, add vocal tracks and occasionaly record w/ a friend (kb & guitar) . The mBox would probably work, but I am assuming that 8 ports would be better, right?

Re: your suggestion for the Tascam us-428 - I never really considered that appraoch. I was simply planning to add an 8-port mixer (A or D, ???) later, when she was ready to edit and write CDs. Maybe I need to re-think my options. What are the pros/cons of a h/w control surface vs. s/w mixing?

Thanks again for your response,

HB

[boze]

i think the arguments for and againsts a control surface in daw-based mixing are more than you need to worry about necessarily. generally, when ppl track different instruments at once into different tracks in a seq app it makes the setting of levels and panpots more natural when you can touch them rather than mousing on each on. a mouse can't ever click on more than one control, but we have ten fingers- that sort of thing.

if you're curious about getting a mac, then go for it. i've been more frustrated by osx than most folks because MOTU is doing a shabby job supporting the $800 soundcard I bought a few years ago- so that sours my opinions of an already slow and growing os. it'll all turn out okay though.

the protools question is similarly too fine a point i think. when ppl say 'protools doesn't handle midi as well as logic' they're talking about more complicated midi functionality than recording a kbd part onto a track and having it play back a synth or samplebank.

i'm not a pro, but i honestly don't think there is a _best seq app. of the big four (cubase, dp, logic, and pt) all are in grown up versions, all have good support for plugins and instruments, all run well under xp or osx, and all are (generally speaking) way cooler than any of us home producers deserve. ppl make a living on these apps- feed and clothe their families and such. you're daughter will be set no matter which way you go.

i think if i were in your position i'd probably go with Logic (because it's always been classy and is now owned by Apple so it'll be supported well) or with ProTools (because pt is such a seriously entrenched leader in real production environments and familiarity with it is actually a marketable skill even though they all do the same thing). i love cubase, but it runs better on a pc i think; and i appreciate dp but it's always been playing second fiddle and is the least used and least talked about of the four just in terms of popularity and buzz. also, dp is made by MOTU (the jackasses who are tormenting me with horrid osx driver support with my soundcard).

don't know if the other companies offer something with hw/sw together like the mbox- maybe call audiomidi.com and see what kind of deals they can do you with pt's competition. their techs are really helpful and they'll cut you a deal if you're ordering more than one thing.

[jasonmaass]

Howdy.....I definitally recommend going with the mac, and the 001 insteadof the m-box. The m-box is great to start out but after a month or two your gonna wish you had more ins and outs, at least i did....also since your daughter wants to make music that will probably use alot of midi the 001 is perfect because it has a midi in and out. Also i have to mention Pro Tools Le works with midi absolutely wonderfully, not to mention at the very least that pro tools in my opinion is pretty much the industry standard. its absolutely great.......If you set your daughter up with a mac and lets say an 001, id have to say you are giving her the tools to create awesome music and also a platform (meaning every proffesional studio ive been to runs PRO TOOLS on a MAC) to have the basic knowledge to possibly follow up with this stuff in the future....let me know how you make out.....later
--jay--

[Horse Bodotes]

Thanks again boze & jasonmaass for your replies. I ended up getting my daughter a Digi 002, after haggling a great deal from the local GC (> $1K). My daughter is happy; my wife less so ("You spent how much on an audio interface??? What's an audio interface?").

I kinda chucked the Digi 001 idea when I realized that it couldn't be reused when we upgrade the Mac later. I compared the 002 to the MOTU 828MkII, which seems like a good unit w/ some nice features. But, to her credit, the princess spent some time playing w/ both PT LE and DP, and she said that she prefered the Digi sw interface.

So there we are. God, this s**t is expensive! All I can say is that I better start hearing some tunes PDQ...

HB

[boze]

:)she's a lucky girl- you should be set.

good luck!

[jasonmaass]

your daughter has got one cool dad...ok man good luck with everything....got any questions about the 002 let me know i have the same setup. Take care
--jay--