Fat Sound, Maximizing levels in a DJ mix Options

[KarlBakker]

I am a DJ who uses a Hi-Fi CD recorder (Pioneer) to record continuous dance music mix sets. The sound quality is very good, but I want to get that Fat Sound you hear on professional Mix CDs.

I have tried the Limiter, Compressor and the Normalizer in Pro Tools (Free) but are unhappy with the result. Everything I try seems to result in a quieter, duller and less dynamic sound, which is the opposite of what I am trying to achieve. When I use a compressor, I cannot get the Gains anywhere near 0db without clipping.

Also, I only run a Mac Titanium.
Can anyone suggest a better approach?
Does anyone know of an inexpensive software option like Sonic Forges Wave Hammer but for the Mac?

Cheers
DJ Anton

[Synthetic]

actually... that "fat" sound you are seeking is a result of thousands of dollars of equipment and a recording engineer / mastering professional who is getting paid over $100 per hour for services. It's much easier to get that sound when you have right equipment and expertise but it is possible to come close to that sound in your home.

first I would recommend a good preamp to run your signal through before it gets to the CD player as this will help "fatten" the overall sound of your tracks... then using the compressor / limiters in conjunction with EQ... you should be able to improve sound a bit more. If you can get a hold of a multiband compressor... that's even better yet. Compression is something that is a bit teadious to get set just right I think... look online like at www.prosoundweb.com or other music sites for info on how to set controls on compressor for good results. Actually, check out www.intermusic.com and look in their tutorial section as they have a few articles that may help lots too. They actually had an article on getting that "fat" sound from small home studios that may be worth a read. Hope that helps a little.

[bbeltjonez]

I am a DJ who uses a Hi-Fi CD recorder (Pioneer) to record continuous dance music mix sets. The sound quality is very good, but I want to get that Fat Sound you hear on professional Mix CDs.

I have tried the Limiter, Compressor and the Normalizer in Pro Tools (Free) but are unhappy with the result. Everything I try seems to result in a quieter, duller and less dynamic sound, which is the opposite of what I am trying to achieve. When I use a compressor, I cannot get the Gains anywhere near 0db without clipping.

Also, I only run a Mac Titanium.
Can anyone suggest a better approach?
Does anyone know of an inexpensive software option like Sonic Forges Wave Hammer but for the Mac?

Cheers
DJ Anton

the first thing you need to realize is that even DJ compilation CD's are heavily limited by a mastering engineer before being sent off to duplication. usually they are processed with a multiband limiter of some sort, either hardware or software. it's very difficult if not impossible to achieve that level of sonic density cleanly (where you look at the waveform and it's practically solid) with just compression and EQ. in addition, it takes someone who knows how to tweak the controls to get the maximum amount of level without clipping. it's not unusual to get gain increases of 4-6 dB or more after multiband limiting. the tradeoff is reduced dynamics of the material to some degree, although EQ'ing can offset some of those problems. but by definition the so called "fat sound" of commercially produced CD's requires substantial reduction in dynamic range - HOW you reduce the dynamics to get the average level of the material higher is the name of the game....RMS level versus peak, most commercial CD's have very little difference between average and peak levels.

your Mac is more than adequate to do the job. you need a plug in or software of some sort that is capable of doing multiband limiting and you need to learn how to use a multiband limiter - unfortunately it's not a plug-in-and-you're-all-set solution, it's going to take time and patience to learn how to get the most out of it if you aren't familiar with it. i've been using multiband limiters for a few years and i am always learning new things. my personal favorite is Prosoniq's Dynasone, but some people can't seem to sort it out that well, i have that problem with the Waves C4 multiband which a lot of people like.... to each his own.

all normalizing does is bring up the level proportionally of the whole file to 0 - it does NOTHING else, if the loudest part of the program is already at or near 0, normalizing will have no effect since everything's as loud as it can get.

[KarlBakker]

Thanks you for your advice. What is your opinion is the editor and plugin setup that is the best value for money? I dont want to spend and arm and a leg on complex functions that I may never us. Something good enough to edit mix sets, fatten up the sound, and break into CD tracks. The rest I can pretty much do on my Pioneer mixer and CD recorder.

Any suggestions?
Cheers
Karl

[Synthetic]

Bias Peak with some good VST plugs might be your best choice. Ideally, I would suggest getting the Waves VST plugs for mastering but they are not cheap by any means but offer great quality as a few big studios use them. I know there might be a more reasonable priced plugin group that may work for you but I am not sure which are the best value.

[rickenbacker]

Waves do seem to be the cat's pyjamas as far as plug-ins go, but they're going to cost Karl more than the one arm and leg combo. You get what you pay for, but in a good way.

The VST option is sound, particularly as there's a huge community of developers for the format. The T-Racks mastering suite is supposed to emulate valve equipment - some people like it, some people don't. I've tried it a few times and didn't hate it and it's not too expensive. There are also mastering suites from Emagic and Steinberg.

As for an editor, I like Sound Studio 2 (Felt Tip software, felttip.com?). I don't know about the full version of Peak, but I've got Peak LE and you can't separate stereo tracks and isolate L or R individually. I do this a lot for one reason or another, which is why I use Sound Studio more than Peak LE.

[formatj]

There is a great plugin "Vintage Warmer" by PSP audioware. It is a simulation of an analog-style, single or multi band compressor/limiter. It comes with a bunch of very useable presets which you can easily tweak to your taste.

It is currently only VST and MAS format however an RTAS version is in development.

There is a demo available at http://www.pspaudioware.com/

[KarlBakker]

Thanks for all the great advice. I am currently trying out some of the suggested software options.

Can anyone suggest a decent hardware set up? I have a Mac Titanium G4 and want to try out programs like Reason and Live! on top of the usual audio editors (Pro Tools, Peak and Sound Studio). There seems to be a confusing array of USB devices, external controllers, and external hard drives, but they all work against the portable go anywhere simplicity of a laptop.

I am by no means a producer, but I am a pretty active Breaks/Techouse dj and definitely want to switch it up a bit! So I already have the necessary equipment - Technics decks, Pioneer mixer, Numark CDs and Pioneer recorder.

I want to be able to use my computer to perform and record live.

Cheers
DJ Anton
Chicago

[rickenbacker]

I like Edirol USB products, so in your case a UA-5 might suit you. Pretty small, about the size of a video cassette, but packed with every possible connection, including phono for turntables. I can't remember if it has Midi or not, though. I think not, so you can either switch to another USB interface that does or get yourself an M-Audio Oxygen 8 or Radium (probably the Radium) or the Edirol PCR-30 or 50. They're all portable Midi keyboards that plug straight into a USB port and work fine in Reason, Live etc. That little lot should still fit in a shoulder bag for gigging.

Anyway, there's always going to be a trade-off between the ultimate system and portability - in theory, I could lug my Midi keyboard, external FireWire hard drive, USB interface and iBook around, but I'd rather not if I can help it.

As a DJ, besides Traktor 2.0 have you tried MegaSeg 2.5 for DJ-ing software? It's pretty good for playing out using just a laptop and mp3 files, so I thought I'd mention it.

[Synthetic]

Echo just came out with a card for laptops that offers 24bit/96khz audio input via 2 1/8" inputs and it is reasonably priced at around $140. I had bought an Emagic EMI 2/6 late last year for my laptop. It looks neat and has good sound quality except when I try to use it with ASIO output from Reason. I am thinking about the Echo card as a replacement but I am not sure it it has audio out at this point. I like the idea of not having another gadget to lug around plus the EMI uses a USB port as well plus I bet the card uses less battery power than the EMI.

Another idea worth looking into if you want good quality and multiple inputs is the Halo Matrix device. It has 8 analog inputs and I think it is firewire based. But it is a nice size box that is about as big as the footprint of a 15" Tibook but it has gotten some realy nice reviews in a couple of mags.