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> Ezbus/audio Midi Setup Weirdness, Anybody else experience this?
Levon River
post Fri 10 Jan 2003, 04:43
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For some weird reason that is entirely beyond my ken, Apple's Audio MIDI Setup will *not* retain the EZBus as the "Selected Audio Device." It's startin' to get on me nerves.

In the "Default Input" dropdown it has EZbus. In the "Default Output" dropdown it has EZbus. But for "Selected Audio Device" it has "Built-in audio controller" showing in the dropdown. If I drop it down, EZBus is there to select. So I select it (which then opens a whole "Input Section" that wasn't there before I selected it). So I quit Audio MIDI Setup. And *every time* I go back into it, it has changed "Selected Audio Device" back to "Built-in audio controller." angry.gif

I've tried changing it, then rebooting. No go. I can't find any preferences file that I can trash. So now I'm at the end of my rope.

Does anybody know what in tarnation is going on here and how to fumigate the gremlins?
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BusError
post Mon 13 Jan 2003, 09:55
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Have you tried setting it as default out device in the "sound" panel of system preferences, instead of in Audio Setup? I'm not particularily fond of that piece of "modern" cocoa programming. Seems it has a hard time to keep up with the 30 or so controls that it manages.


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Levon River
post Tue 14 Jan 2003, 05:49
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QUOTE (BusError @ Jan 13 2003, 02:55)
Have you tried setting it as default out device in the "sound" panel of system preferences, instead of in Audio Setup?

Yeah, buserror, I had checked that. The EZbus is the what is selected in the "Output" pane of the Sound panel (although "Built-in audio controller" is in the list, too.) The EZBus is also selected in the "Input" pane of the Sound panel (but there is no other option there). None of this changes the odd behavior of Audio MIDI Setup, though. blink.gif sad.gif

This brings me to *another* rant: Why can't these schizoids collect all the %&$^#@*%ing settings for this audio stuff into ONE place, instead of scattering them all over Hell's half-acre?! angry.gif But that's another rant for another time and place. biggrin.gif
QUOTE (BusError @ Jan 13 2003, 02:55)
I'm not particularily fond of that piece of "modern" cocoa programming. Seems it has a hard time to keep up with the 30 or so controls that it manages.

Nor am I particularly fond of it. (30 or so controls? huh.gif )

Maybe Audio MIDI Setup (AMS) wouldn't be quite so bad if they bothered to provide ANY documentation at all worth a damn. Part of what I can't comprehend is why they even have a "Default Input" and "Default Output," yet *also* have a "Selected Audio Device." "Selected" by *whom*? And *where*? blink.gif Because the very thing I'm complaining about is that the damned thing won't RETAIN what *I've* SELECTED in the drop-down next to "Selected Audio Device." blink.gif

Sheeeeeeeesh!

Another wrinkle to all of this (like we need a few more) is that in AMS, right below "Default Output," is another dropdown called "System Output." I figured that must mean alerts and that kind of stuff (maybe even including the Startup chimes), so I'd prefer that to go through the computer speaker and not blasting out my studio monitors.

Sure enough, if I select "EZBus" *there,* next to "System Output" in AMS, it changes the dropdown in the "Sound Effects" pane of the Sound panel in System Preferences to "EZBus," and if I change "System Output" in AMS to "Built-in audio controller," then it changes it in the "Sound Effects" pane to "Built-in audio controller." So those two things ("System Output" in AMS, and "Sound Effects" in the Sound preferences panel--named differently in the two different locations, of course angry.gif ) apparently are hard-wired together.

But none of this makes AMS retain the EZBus as "Selected Audio Device," even though the EZBus is available as an option. If I could just find out what the hell "Selected Audio Device" even means, I might find some peace. smile.gif

It's made doubly annoying by the fact that when I select EZBus there, in AMS, as "Selected Audio Device," then under "Input Section" I get a whole new set of parameters showing up where only a "Device does not support input" statement is when "Built-in audio controller" is selected. But in those new parameters for EZBus there is yet another enigma: an "Input Source" dropdown that has NO options available--only the greyed-out word "none." (That's about the point where I get fed up with wandering around this house o' mirrors.) There's also a "Current Format" dropdown set to "2Ch-44100.0 Hz-16bit" where I can select another option of 24 bit. But as soon as I quit AMS, all that goes away apparently, because when I come back, "Built-in audio controller" is sitting there staring at me like a haint as the "Selected Audio Device." I just don't know who selected it. biggrin.gif

If you know or find out who's responsible for this nonsense, will you kick 'em in the shins once for me next time you see them? I'd be much obliged. laugh.gif
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philipturner
post Thu 6 Mar 2003, 00:51
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Hello Levon,

I'm having exactly the same problem as you with my EZbus and the Audio Setup in Mac OS 10.2.4. Choose EZbus. Close, reopen, and it's gone, back to Built-in audio controller. Did you find out what was going on?

Cheers,

Philip
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BusError
post Thu 6 Mar 2003, 01:25
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I reiterate my former comment, I have been using the EZ for months and never had a problem like that: even better, if I turn the EZ off and turn it back on, it is restored as the default device everytime.

What I do NOT do is use the AMS to set it ip;

in the system prefence, in "Alert" I have "Selected output device".
In "Output" I have "EZbus" selected
In "Input" theres only EZBus to select, so I select it.

In AMS, the "Selected Audio Device" does NOT change any setting related to the audio, that popup is there to select the device you want to EDIT the parameters from. It will ALWAYS reset to the first entry when you relaunch.

The only way I know to change the default input is to use the System Preferences. I don't think you can do that from AMS


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philipturner
post Fri 7 Mar 2003, 01:25
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Thanks for the tip. Basically I should forget about the Audio Midi Setup and use the Sounds control panel instead. Right?

I since found out from Event that the real problem is with Cubase SX that is unable to recognise two devices on USB (one for audio input and one for audio output). Apparently Apple and Event got it right, following the USB specifications. Steinberg decided to ignore the spec and left Cubase SX able to recognise only one USB device (for audio output).

I am so regularly amazed at how so-called 'professional' software developers are unable to get basic things right. It's rampant. But I guess that's business: new + not working = less investment + more revenue ; old + working = more investment + less revenue. IMHO it's about time the market figured out how to support effectively software developers that make products that work at the expense of those that don't. But that's another topic...
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Lutefisk
post Sun 13 Apr 2003, 13:17
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Just as a sidenote, although I've never had this problem with the ezbus, there are a number of people on sonikmatter who have had similar issues with all different hardware. There are some very intelligent threads over there, the gist of which are:
-Open AMS first, make your settings, and leave it open when you start your application.
-Selected Audio Device shouldn't affect the audio device used by your software: it's solely for the purpose of configuring hardware. Select stuff in the sound control-panel, or, with Logic, select it from within Logic (which may work with other software too).

-l
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Levon River
post Sun 13 Apr 2003, 16:17
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QUOTE (philipturner @ Mar 5 2003, 17:51)
Hello Levon,

I'm having exactly the same problem as you with my EZbus and the Audio Setup in Mac OS 10.2.4.  Choose EZbus.  Close, reopen, and it's gone, back to Built-in audio controller.  Did you find out what was going on?

Cheers,

Philip

Hey, phillip: didn't mean to ignore anybody here--I get weirdnesses happening in the forum read/not read indicators from time to time (they all go dark), and I just flat out missed replies to this thread.

No, I've never found out or figured it out. Having read buserror's later replies, I'm still not sure I get it entirely, but I'll just take it at face value. Things are working (for the most part)--I just don't understand why or how, and the point, I guess, is that the people who create these things MAKE it *impossible* to find out.

I understand that one of the people very instrumental in creating Audi MIDI Setup and other aspects of Core Audio and Core MIDI is the same person who brought us OMS. As far as I'm concerned, OMS was to creativity as a blender on "LIQUEFY" is to kittens, and it was because of this *exact* twisted "logic" in interface.

Another example of this same brand of madness from AMS (which example obviously was lifted right out of OMS) is this: in the MIDI pane, click on (or create) a "device" (synth or sound module), then select it and click on the "Show Info" pane, and open "More Properties." See all those "Transmit" and "Receive" buttons? Now put yourself in the head of a newbie and try to answer this question: "Are they "on," or are they "off"? Now click on one. Did you turn it "on," or did you turn it "off?" Do you know? Can you tell? Is it labled ANYWHERE? Is there ANY documentation that gives you ANY clue of what the default state is?

The answer to ALL questions above is a *resounding* *N O*!!

Of course, this is ONLY the absolute most rock-bottom, fundamental, and important setting you can make on that synth or sound module.

This kind of "you figure it out" mentality MUST arise out of either insufferable arrogance or a "dropped on their head" incident. It's just so mind-numbingly incomprehensible, you just...

Okay, I have to take a walk now. biggrin.gif

But then these same people who "design" this kind of weenieness all scratch their heads and wonder why they are *swamped* with support phone calls and e-mails.

"Is it plugged in?"

Plug THIS in.

laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Levon River: Sun 13 Apr 2003, 16:20
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Levon River
post Sun 13 Apr 2003, 17:20
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QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
I reiterate my former comment, I have been using the EZ for months and never had a problem like that: even better, if I turn the EZ off and turn it back on, it is restored as the default device everytime.


Define "default device."

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
What I do NOT do is use the AMS to set it ip;


Why do you NOT use AMS to set it up? I hate to provide penetrating glimpses into the obvious, but the NAME of the program Apple provides with its OS is "Audio MIDI Setup." I didn't name it that; they did. Where else would you logically SET UP an AUDIO interface?

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
in the system prefence, in "Alert" I have "Selected output device".


Define "Selected output device." How is that same device identified in AMS? (HINT: It's not as "Selected output device." BTW, I didn't create this maze of logical inconsistencies--I'm just trying to navigate it.)

I said above, I want to make sure that my alerts do NOT go through my audio interface, amp, and speakers. That's why I'm asking you to define "Selected output device."

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
In "Output" I have "EZbus" selected


So do I. But "Output" is of *what*? And, in fact, what is the "Built-in audio controller"? Where is that defined? Is it part of Core Audio? If so, are the signals ultimately destined for the EZBus going through it *anyway*? If so, why are they presented as discrete items. These are the obvious, logical questions about *routing* that anybody who wants to understand--and therefore be able to control--his signal paths expects to be able to find out. The way it currently exists, it is HIDDEN from the user and undocumented. It's a shell game. There is no visual feedback of the actual routing, there is no documentation, there is no clarity.

This is my whole point. The AMS audio pane give this inexplicable--and ENTIRELY unexplained--behavior. So far, nobody has been able to adequately and logically explain it or tell me what is going on. You telling me what you do hasn't changed this inexplicable behavior in that pane one bit. It still does *exactly* what I described.

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
In "Input" theres only EZBus to select, so I select it.


Right. Hobson's choice.

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
In AMS, the "Selected Audio Device" does NOT change any setting related to the audio,


Oh, well, that makes total sense. blink.gif biggrin.gif

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
that popup is there to select the device you want to EDIT the parameters from. It will ALWAYS reset to the first entry when you relaunch.


*What* "first entry"?! "First" *where*? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "First" implies the existence of a list of choices. *Where*?

QUOTE (BusError @ Mar 5 2003, 18:25)
The only way I know to change the default input is to use the System Preferences. I don't think you can do that from AMS


Gawdalmighty. How do you buy your way off of this merry-go-round. There is NO CHOICE in System Preferences/Sound for INPUT, which *you* JUST SAID, above. There is ONLY the EZBus. My *entire* POINT is that AMS, though, keeps the (nowhere defined) "Selected Audio Device" set to (also nowhere defined) "Built-in audio controller." It doesn't say "Selected Audio INPUT Device." It doesn't say "Selected Audio OUTPUT Device." It just says "Selected Audio Device." You seem to insist that this makes sense in some universe.

The DEVICE that I, in System Preferences, have *selected* (please note that word) BOTH for INPUT, AND for OUTPUT, is EZBUS. Yet in AMS, the "Selected Audio Device" ALWAYS changes back to "Built-in audio controller." Now, I can't explain the *utter* ILLOGIC inherent in this dog's breakfast any better than herein, so if it still isn't crossing the void, the lines are down in Wichita.

Levon
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