Show Of Hand For Entry Level Software And Hardware, Recommendation Options

[lantzn]

Hi All,
I've spent the last week looking into all the possible ways on getting my son's band's music into my computer to edit and burn. I'm talking entry-level here. It seems that most of the high-end products from all the software companies are just now showing up for OS X. I'm sure the entry-level software will follow.

Here is the software I've looked into.
Steinberg Cubase SX released, no mention of a VST version yet.
Emagic Logic Platinum released, no mention of MicroLogic AV yet.
Digidesign Pro Tools announced, no mention of LE yet.
MOTU Digital Performer announced, no mention of entry-level software yet.

I've looked into the following hardware.
Griffin iMic
MBox
EMI 6/2
Midiman/M-Audio USB Quattro and Duo

I want to stay away from the PCI stuff because we have a G4 tower and iMac and want to be able to swap the hardware between the machines. Ultimately I want a piece of entry level hardware that will work with all the entry level software that will make it to OS X. The Midiman stuff looks to be vary promising and already has Jaguar drivers! I'm going to a demo they are having next Friday in Seattle.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the entry-level software that currently exists for OS 9 from the four software companies above. This will help me decide when they release their OS X versions. I'm interested in a modern GUI and a fairly easy learning curve. I did notice that some of the software was geared more for the midi stuff while others for the band music stuff. I'd rather be able to buy a VARIETY of less expensive software to go with my hardware then a single expensive high-end product.

thanks

[Synthetic]

from what I have read in other posts... stay away from imic if you want good quality and reliability. I think I would stay away from m-audio for audio interfaces too... they had lots of probs with them working with certain apps thanks to ASIO dirver problems... they might be fixed now but for awhile they were a hot topic because of the probs. I just ordered the Emagic EMI 2/6 for use with my laptop.

my opinion on anything entry level... yeah its nice to start out small but eventually you will want more control, features and more tracks to work with and will probably end up buying better software so I would say just go for one of the available full titles. And if it has to run on OSX.... you are gonna be working in new territory that is still being developed and thus you are gonna lose some features until they get it all worked out.

I don't want to seem pompous but I think you are making this more difficult than it needs to be... you really should contact a sales rep at sweetwater.com or another music retailer and tell them exactly what you want to do and how much you are willing to spend... they will guide you. Also, check the other threads as there are many others who seek the same advice and you can see what everyone is using and such.

[Levon River]

Synthetic has a very good point about the inevitable desire for more control, features, and tracks--it's just like model railroading.

Seriously, the hard truth is that "entry level" and computer recording don't "mix" (pun intended) well. At least not well for any result you'd want to play for anybody. And *any* level involves a lot of work, so why go to all that work and then find yourself halfway through limited in possibly important ways?

You can get ProTools Free for the best price in town and have eight tracks to get your feet wet with. But then you're going to find out that you want to separately mix the kick, snare, and hihat from the crash/toms, and suddenly you're already running short of track. You're about to derail. Choo-choo!

I have questions, too: is your son's band strictly an audio-only recording situation? Do they have any synths? If so, there are *enormous* benefits, often, to having the keyboard player put his/her part(s) down as MIDI (sometimes with audio going down at the same time), because a recorded MIDI part is much easier to tweak and edit than audio--if you decide you want to add a third chorus, for instance--and then you can have the MIDI drive the synth playing that killer piano patch. But more than that, later you can route that same keyboard part to a *more* killer piano sound you've found on a soft-synth. And more than *that*, you can change the part to croaking frogs if you decide to, later in the mix.

I could go on (just ask anybody here ), but I'm hoping you're getting the picture. If you strictly want to record audio, Deck 3.5 does that in OS X right now, number of tracks limited only by your own system (I think). Deck doesn't have any integrated MIDI editing, although you can bring a MIDI file into the program and sync it--somehow. (Sorry--last time I used Deck was early Deck 2.)

But as Synthetic said, talk to a pro, like at Sweetwater, and plan toward your intended result--not against a learning curve. Computer audio and MIDI *have* a learning curve. Just dive in and learn as you go. Plan on enjoying tearing your hair out.

There are plenty of people here who know the ropes and will help you through rough spots--which is more than many of *them* had when *they* went through it.

All of the software you named does essentially the same job. They all go about it in fundamentally the same way, with some stylistic and functional and even proprietary differences. They *all* have learning curves. But they all make music. And that's what keeps us all coming back for the bruises and frustrations and "Why is no sound coming out?!?!?!" episodes while our bank accounts dwindle.

It's just like when the little light wouldn't come on in the station house when the train pulled up to it. ("Why won't the light come on?!?!?!?")

It's a sublime madness.

[filarion]

Just clarifying on the Cubase VST bit - there apparently won't be a "VST" version of Cubase anymore. There is Cubase SL (probably out soon for the Mac) which takes away some stuff. You still get unlimited audio tracks, but less inserts/sends, no DeEsser plugin (ALL the other SX plugins are there) and some other drawbacks. Price for Cubase SL here is €500, so it should be about the same in US$. Granted, not really "entry level" anymore either, but it's a nicer compromise than Logic Audio Gold for instance.

One thing you really should not forget when shopping for a HD recording setup are speakers. Stay away from anything Harman Kardon or "A/V" speaker-ish and calculate at least $400 for a pair of active Nearfield Monitors. Or use high quality Hifi speakers, but be sure to A/B them with good headphones.

[DANO10]

LANTZN

How about taking a look at BIAS Studio LE. An entry leve studio that runs on OSX or OS9. It includes PEAK LE (for editing), DECK LE (for multi track stuff) and Roxio TOAST Lite ( for burning CD's). $179.00 - short learning curve. I use the full blown versions of all of the above and am very peased.

DANO10

[Presto]

I like (because I have) the Mbox with Protools Le (on OS9 for the moment but OSX coming).
Its excellent portable quality for little money and very simple to use with audio (no midi interface - you can get that later if you need to). Only 2 inputs so only two good recording mics to put in (they can be expensive - pros use lots of mics on just the drums). Have a look at a pair of DPA 4060 miniature mics if you want them nicely portable and much less fragile than studio mics. You'd only get one stereo (or 2 monos if you really want) at a time but I must admit I love "live" sound as compared to a pile of monos. The drums (and drummer!) may cause a problem but you can always record them separately. Hum! then you'd need to fix phones (cheap ones) for each musician.

I work on my own music on my own, so I don't really know if my stuff is good for a group yet. Still, I'll be making a stereo recording with the Mbox and comparing with a live multitrack recording made (using stage mics) at the same time on my friends group (hopefully in the next few weeks).

I bet you end up getting hooked and spending loads on all the other things you find are "highly desireable" (even good cables!). I'm a beginner and will use a pro's ears and expensive equipment to tidy up my work before getting my CDs out - much cheaper and better results.

Good luck