PT6 "officialy" Announced..., at last Options

[Levon River]

Boy, you're really out of your mind...

Glad to see you're working on that ad hominem thing.

So your inexcusable abuse of your Moderator privileges in publishing that kind of private information was completely wasted, wasn't it?

...you would have noticed that the time a post has been written can be found (by any normal member...) at the top of the post... No need to be a modrator for that... Stop being paranoid...

Nice try. You posted the AMOUNT OF TIME I was on the board. That is not part of the time stamp. No paranoia was involved: just a moderator abusing his privelges, and being called on it.

I've asked to the people who created this board to erase me from the list. I find it harder and harder to keep my cool with people like you around and I definitely agree that a moderator should always...well, moderate. Meanwhile, don't be too proud of yourself, you're not the only troll that made me loose my cool these past days...

I'm not proud at all or pleased at all. I'm sure you've made many valuable contributions to these forums and helped many people. In fact, I urge you--URGE you--to take a walk and soberly reconsider it, weighing your knowledge and experience and ability to help against the momentary upsets with some people, like me, who manage to get under your skin. Which isn't something I set out to do to begin with.

I'm not a troll at all. I've been expressing my views--backed up with facts--about music related products and OS problems. If this isn't a forum for free expression, then what's the point? If it's supposed to be only a continuous feel-good free advertisement, then how will any of us, as consumers, ever be able to bring pressure on the marketers operating in a free market to improve their products and services and stay competitive?

I have nothing personal against you at all. I call 'em as I see 'em, and that rubs some people the wrong way. But I'm not trying to stop you from expressing *your* opposing views, or even DigiDesign from trotting out a PR rep to extoll its virtues. You, however, seem bent on trying to gag me, and to be as abusive as possible in the process. I didn't pick this fight, and don't want a fight.

I also think it would be a great loss to the MacMusic community for you to step down as moderator. I hope we're straight on that.

So I'm not going to bother attempting to dissect or respond to any more of your personal insults. I'm genuinely sorry if something I said about a music product developer and their policies and products got to you so personally. It certainly wasn't directed at you. I genuinely hope you'll take a little time to reconsider your decision about moderating, and will continue to use your knowledge and experience to help others.

[lepetitmartien]

Excuse me Levon, but I will back up the words of Mr T.

THIS topic is about PT6 and its anouncement, not a thread on your personnel opinion (do you really care about the opinions on it from other members or moderators I wonder, surely you haven't browse the place to look for it, or you'll know about it) on the relevancy of such a product, digi hardware and so on. A glance in the french forums would have been instructive also.

btw, I reserve myself the privilege I HAVE to edit your posts if you don't do it yourself. I will tolerate NO INSULTS either against macmusic fellows, or any other member.

IS THAT CLEAR?

Now back on topic if you can manage it, please.

[Mr.T]

Nice try. You posted the AMOUNT OF TIME I was on the board. That is not part of the time stamp. No paranoia was involved: just a moderator abusing his privelges, and being called on it.

Paranoia it is... I don't have access to more infos than you do... I've just watched the hour of your first post and then the hour of your second post and was just amazed to see the hour and the time it took you to write those two posts.
In other words I made an...addition...ever heard of that?...
"Abusing his privileges": man ,if I wanted, I could edit every single word of your boring posts...I could make you say ANYTHING I want...that's part of my (soon to go) privileges... I could also just erase every posts you've posted so far... Did I do that?... No. So please stop that "CIA wants me dead" thing... at least do that... if you're clever enough.
Oh, and:

I also think it would be a great loss to the MacMusic community for you to step down as moderator. I hope we're straight on that.

What's up with that?...at least we were agreeing on one thing...

Finally, just for the record, I don't work for Digi and can assure you that I'm, as many others, a pissed off consumer... DIGIDESIGN are assholes! They have the poorest politic one can think of... but I do like PT, have been working for years with it and WHAT I DON'T like is when someone like you comes along and say "I don't get why people keep working with PT!! Fools! "(this might not be your exact words but, get real, that's basically what you're saying).
Feel free to insult Digi as much as you wish; no matter what you say, this IS a free board over which manufacturers don't have any power (unlike the DUC).
Now, insult me and my intelligence and I'll be in your face!!! Any time!

[Levon River]

Excuse me Levon, but I will back up the words of Mr T.

Well, since he hasn't said anything on-topic to me yet, I can only understand that to mean you're here to endorse his off-topic personal attacks, insults, and ad hominem. Is that correct, M. LePetitMartien? As weak and kittenish and ineffective as his attacks were, they need some back-up. Glad the poor boy found someone who would actually help him attempt to insult someone. No surprise that it's you. So quote exactly what you claim you're backing up. 'kay? Then we'll see if you can back it up or not. I don't think you can back up a word of it, but I'd love to see how you do. Are you up to it? Want to play?

THIS topic is about PT6 and its anouncement

Then why are you wasting time backing up the off-topic personal insults of Mr. T?

PT6, and issues about it that Mr. T *HIMSELF* raised (which I prove below) is EXACTLY what my posts were about--until, that is, he jumped in with his personal attacks, which apparently you are reckless enough to endorse. My posting record in this thread proves it. If you, or he, think I'll sit still to be a punching bag for his, or your, snide, rude, unmotivated personal attacks on me, you picked the wrong boy. That's all. It's that simple. He found that out the hard way. Now he needs your help to recover. So far it's a walk in the park. Can't you bring a few more, just to make it interesting?

not a thread on your personnel opinion...on the relevancy of such a product, digi hardware and so on.

Well, apparently you never found out what "forum" means before you lined up to start "moderating" one. Just to prove how willing I always am to help, here is the definition of FORUM, M. LePetitMartien:

"A public meeting place for open discussion; A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas; A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation."

So are you rewriting the English dictionary, as well as endorsing unjustifiable personal attacks? This may seem like a radical idea, but you might think about at least learning to speak the language first before you go changing all of the definitions. If my opinions and ideas and discussion about the topic of this thread, and the relevant issues raised in it, are not allowed in this "forum," why call it a forum at all? That would make it a lie, wouldn't it?

And, by the way, if you're going to censor *my* commentary on PT6 and the related systems and hardware, allow me to humbly suggest that you delete your own opinionated "Pop the champagne" gee-whiz ProTools endorsement in this thread while you're at it so you won't embarrass yourself so publicly as a *total* hypocrite.

As for the hardware connection to the release of PT6, it was DigiDesign, not me, who made PT6 entirely dependent on their own hardware, and who made it available ONLY for *certain* PT systems, so take it up with them--not with me. And it was Mr. T himself who brought up that EXACT ISSUE. So take it up with him if you don't like it being in this thread, not with me. It's that exact issue that I was discussing, raised by Mr. T himself, which I prove below. So are you going to limit everyone to talking only about the software with no address at all to the hardware it works exclusively with? That should be a fascinating discussion. And if you're going to do that, you're going to have to go back and edit out Mr. T's reference to the ONLY DigiDesign HARDWARE-BASED systems that PT6 works with, or else you're really going to be exposing yourself as a hypocrite. That kind of puts you between a rock and a Mr. T, just from where I sit. (Maybe you could solve it by just censoring the entire topic.)

I will tolerate NO INSULTS either against
macmusic fellows, or any other member.

IS THAT CLEAR?

It will be clear once you go back through this thread and edit out every single INSULT from bixpender and Mr. T against me. Until you do that, the only thing clear to me is your hypocrisy.

Will you just censor *all* this to cover up that kind of hypocrisy? If so, it will all appear in a *much* more widely-read forum that's *actually* a forum, by definition. Want to play?

Now back on topic if you can manage it, please.

Well, I couldn't manage to get Mr. T back on topic; he's still slinging insults at me--you know, those things you will tolerate NONE of toward ANY member. Like me.

So let's see if I *can* actually manage getting *you* back on topic. Here are my on-topic questions for you:

1. Mr. T himself raised the following issue in this thread: "you might need to considere that the infos mentionned above [about PT6] only concern really expensive systems (TDM and HD only), not 'affordable systems as the 001, the 002 or the MBox." So is it true or is it not true, M. LePetitMartien, that PT6, for OS X, is not available for the low-end MBox and 001 systems that odrec and aladinsane expressed their feelings about IN THIS THREAD, and which I was responding to? Yes or no?

2. Pursuant to Mr. T himself raising the issue of these systems IN THIS THREAD, is it true, or is it not true, M. LePetitMartien, that the software version of PT that *is* available for the MBox system is arbitrarily limited by DigiDesign to 24 tracks, and the software version that *is* available for the 001 system is arbitrarily limited by DigiDesign to 32 tracks (8 more than the Mbox system), but that you get 8 FREE audio tracks with ProTools Free? Is that correct, M. LePetitMartien?

Maybe if you can answer just two simple on-topic questions based on issues that Mr. T *himself* raised IN THIS THREAD, you will do better than he, and start looking like an actual moderator of an actual FORUM, rather than like a petulant bully. I feel certain that you must not be just a petulant bully, and have very high hopes indeed that I can manage to swing you back on-topic.

Please don't disappoint.

[Levon River]

I don't have access to more infos than you do... I've just watched the hour of your first post and then the hour of your second post and was just amazed to see the hour and the time it took you to write those two posts.
In other words I made an...addition...ever heard of that?...

So, by that "logic", if I don't post at all for a week, it took me a week to write my next post, right? Your deduction was dead wrong, that's all. The time between the two posts had nothing to do with how long it took me to write either, it had strictly to do with what ELSE I was doing at the time. But thanks for playing.

I also think it would be a great loss to the MacMusic community for you to step down as moderator. I hope we're straight on that.

What's up with that?...at least we were agreeing on one thing...

I told you: I have no personal beef with you at all. All I've been doing in our exchages is deflecting the flames you seem determined to throw at me. I think your knowledge and experience and contributions are of value to a lot of people, including me. I'd rather be discussing music on the Mac with you and benefitting from your knowledge of that, and having others benefit from it, than being in a flame war. It's that simple. So I urged you to take a little time and reconsider. I still urge you to.

WHAT I DON'T like is when someone like you comes along and say "I don't get why people keep working with PT!! Fools! "(this might not be your exact words but, get real, that's basically what you're saying).

No, Mr. T, that is not at all what I am saying, or have been saying, or have ever said. That's why exact words are so important, and not misinterpretations of them. My calling DigiDesign's product "ProFools" is nothing more sinister than a slice of irony, a rhetorical device, a bit of satire directed solely at the company. My sentiments and empathies are entirely on the side of the consumers, the users.

Better get that irony meter checked.

From something you said in an earlier message, I also believe you entirely misunderstood my one and only use of the word "stupid" in this thread, when I said: "I personally think ProTools Free is the stupidest move they [DigiDesign] ever made." My entire point was that it exposed conclusively to the world that they--DigiDesign--are entirely capable of making their software usable with the Mac native audio, and with other audio hardware and software--the way DP, Cubase, etc. are--but that they knowingly and willfully lock it into their hardware, forcing people to buy their hardware at a premium.

I'll take it a step further: DigiDesign never threw such crumbs as ProTools Free and the recent MBox and 001 packages to the little guys as long as they had a complete monopoly on high-end Mac-based recording packages that required their high-end hardware. It was only with the advent of faster, more powerful computers--and competing software that would work native and with much less expensive audio/MIIDI hardware on those faster and more powerful computers--that DigiDesign decided they would stoop to try and horn in on the exact market segment of small home and project and demo studios that they had completely turned their noses up at for years. I can hear the caps being twisted off of Evian bottles in the marketing meetings where they decided they needed to get a piece of this new emerging market, and might be able to leverage that market into their bigger packages with the right come-on, and away from more affordable systems that were now competing with them hard.

I see it as a cold-blooded marketing ploy to cozy up to a market segment they wouldn't have wiped their shoes on before.

So I stand on the side of the user, the consumer, especially the ones on a budget who are trying to get good, professional audio projects done, and can't invest the small fortune that a higher-end DigiDesign system would require, when they can get very similar, if not identical, results these days with a much smaller investment. As long as I can help inform others that there are viable and workable options out there--and poke a few well-earnd holes in the Great Sacred Inflated Floating Godhead of DigiDesign in the process--I'm going to do it.

So nowhere did I say, or even imply, that anyone who has, themselves, been able to invest in a ProTools system is either a fool or stupid. Obviously, the products can deliver, or they never could have commanded the high prices they have gotten for them over the years. But there are other, less expensive, and very competent options available now. You don't actually have a problem with letting others know that, do you?

Feel free to insult Digi as much as you wish; no matter what you say, this IS a free board over which manufacturers don't have any power (unlike the DUC).

I didn't suggest that the manufacturers had power over it. I believe you've set up an entire squad of straw men now to flame.

Now, insult me and my intelligence and I'll be in your face!!! Any time!

That's fair enough. And you keep rewriting me just so you can get in my face over something I never said, and I'll be in yours. Any time. Deal?

[Francois Déchery]

Mr Levon, whatever is you opinion about anybody here, stop shouting an posting tons of pages in this forum or your account will simply be deleted.

We like to read your opinion and it can be different or the same as others members: that's a forum.
but this forum must stay informative and a cool place.

If you like to fight with moderators and members, do it privatly (PM or email) and dont bother thousand readers who really don't care about your discussion. (half the digest was about your personnal fight). Understand that being too agressive with moderators or members will just lead you to be disconnected of MacMusic.


Whatever MrT, or LPM said to you (i have to time to read the whole posts), they do a fantastic job here for free, helping thousand of members and keeping theses forum sorted, informative and cool.

You seems spending more time here beiing aggressive toward them, instead of sharing your opinion or knowledge, or discussing on-topic.

Keep in mind that Moderators, even if sometimes they make mistakes are always RIGHT in a forum!!!

If you hate this place, the team here, think we are the NSA watching, or censor you, just fing another forum...you will find thousands on the internet.

Then now just STOP that kind of posts!
(continuing/replying this discussion in the public forum will NOT be tolerated!)


keep cool!

[bixpender]

HAHAHAHAHA

MORE!! I WANT MORE!!!!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA


cognac and cigars

[Mr.T]

OK that's it people!
Levon, I'll let you have the last word in this "discussion" just to show you I'm not abusing my privileges...
Meanwhile, one of the privileges I can still use is to close a subject and that's exactly what I'd like to do.But you know the funniest thing?... I'm not even a moderator in this section of the forum! So I'll ask any of the moderator passing by to please close this damn thread. Thanks.
The reason why I'm doing it are:
1- This is going nowhere (if you want to discuss Digi's products or its general policy, I'll be glad to, but in another thread and in another form),
2- I started this topic, kinda started that stupid flame war, so it's also a way to moderate myself (how pathetic?!...),
3- But most of all, that Bixpender reply convince me that I've been a fool thinking it was time to let you know what I thought of your behaviour on this board. I've followed the wrong man (damn, I'm usually not a follower, don't know what happened), a man that only seem to be stupidier than I thought you were.
4- I don't want my fellow teamers to get involved in such a useless, kiddish war.

So: Levon, I hope you'll keep on posting to show everyone you can do something else than just bitching and whining around.
And Bixpender... well...sorry but you wont get what you came for here.

Show is over. Get moving.

[lepetitmartien]

This thread is closed! Enough is enough (choir: yeaaaaah!)

We gave you, Levon a chance to go back ON topic, which is still PT6 and its coming release on OSX, not the relevancy of PT as a profrssionnal package or the marketing policy of Digidesign in particular. I'll stand by the words of Mr T that I know, him, personally, and his in the mix knowledge. I don't say that he's free of charges, simply he's a bit more conscious of some limits than you are.

We don't tolerate here such aggressive threads, we like cool on topic talking, and if your definition of on topic and ours are the same, you can still remember that it's us who are running the forums. Especially when it is people who are working with the product day bay day. There is no censorship in these forum, we want free input, talking and for the benefit of everyone. But we will never accept paranoids, insults, aggressivity and wrong infos.

This said.

Laser!