Slow drive, Logic on Quad 5, even with 2 tracks! Options

[hahaworld]

Dear Friend,

I am also using a Quad G5, and I have had Slow Disk errors while using Logic Pro since I bought it in July. Have you had this problem with your G5? I've been to the Genius Bar about 4 times, and no one seems to be able to pinpoint the problem. The Slow Disk errors happen whenever I'm using a third-party plug-in like EastWest Symphonic Orchestra or Synthogy Ivory. It also happens when I'm working with audio. The other day, I only had two audio tracks running, and the Slow Disk error kept popping up. I still use Logic on my PowerBook G4, and it screams along just fine. It's sad to have a G5 Quad that runs slower than a laptop I've had since 2003. Any ideas you might have would be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

Interesting, I answered this question for myself several months ago.

I had problems (pops, hangs, no SPDIF I/O) with the Firebox on my Powerbook 667 so I returned the Firebox and bought the Traveler. The Traveler worked much better, but now on my current system (I haven't tried SPDIF I/O yet) I have to toggle the optical input settings after booting to "wake up" audio output. Still no definitive word from MOTU (they suggested the output toggle exercise) on a real fix, but at least now once it's "awake" it works until the computer is power-cycled again.

As you can see from my sig I moved up to a Quad G5 from the Powerbook. I'm in this seriously, so I seriously abused my retirement savings. So far I haven't regretted it. Logic 7.1 is actually easy to use on this system, and Reaktor 5 may occaisionally make some (unintended) strange digital-lockup noises, but the CPU is still less than 35%. The funny part was I thought the lock-up was part of the Reaktor patch I was using so I recorded it. I didn't know it until I looked at the waveform in Logic. So much for my 30 years of synthesis experience...

I don't currently daisy-chain a FW drive from the Traveler, but I did on the Powerbook and it worked as a recording target drive. I do use FW400 drives on the Quad G5, but I intend to get a FW800 drive for recorded sound files. I've been told that the FW800 bus is independent of the FW400 bus (which is used by the Traveler) so I'm expecting pretty good performance.

Stay tuned...

[lepetitmartien]

There's quite some issues unsolved of software running on the quad. I expect it's another one.



could you detail the exact config ram, hard drives… ?

(I've separated the threads, it's heading in an interesting direction quite different)

[hahaworld]

Hi, lepetitmartien!

Thanks for starting this new thread. Here is my setup:

PowerMac Quad 2.33G G5 Desktop
4.5G RAM
Logic 7.2.3
Samples running from internal hard drive (I did this on a recommendation from Synthogy AND EastWest. Initially, I had my samples on my LaCie 500G 7200rpm external FW800 drive, but they told me it would be better to have the samples on the internal drive).
Recording audio to the LaCie external drive

I have tried every imaginable I/O Buffer setting in Logic, as well as latency settings in Symphony Orchestra and Ivory to no avail. I still get the Slow Disk errors. Could it be a problem with my internal disk? I have not called Apple Tech support in several months, because they told me it was a software issue and I would have to set up a Logic Software session with a technician for an initial fee of $130, going up from there. So, I've been trying to solve this by myself. I've been a Mac user since 1988, and I've been using Logic since 2000, so I feel pretty savvy with the program.

Thanks so much for your concern and dedication to these forums, my friend! Any ideas you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

[lepetitmartien]

If I get you right, the guys at "Synthogy AND EastWest" should know better… They made you instal samples on your system drive, right?

I'm sure if you instal a new drive in the quad, besides the system one, only for audio, it'll get wayyyy better The system drive will never be able to cope with calls for read/write from both the system, the apps, the virtual memory swap files, and files (especially audio streaming, recording or samples look out).

Having the samples on the FW drive was a good move. but if you're using heavily samples and you're recording at the same time, having samples and audio recorded on different drives is a good move too. But the system drives should be only for the system, the apps, and other files. But once it's audio you're talking about, let's install them elsewhere.

Maybe they told you to put them on an internal drive but weren't that clear about it, or were concerned about the FW800 as it's not as good on G5 as it should be (it's still pretty fast and better than USB2 anyway, but not as fast as it should be, Apple screwed it big time, I wonder if it's corrected on the macpro…).

Drives are cheap these days, get a seagate in SATA (should cost the $130 or less) and run the samples from it. Use the FW800 as a back up (or for recording audio and back up every day on the new internal, you'll have room to spare anyway), LaCie is serious, but I've heard a lot of complain about reliability of BigDisks, now they ARE fast (it's RAID 0 in BigDisks), so I'm careful. It's stupid to have such power and not being able to use it because some supports are really lagging in common knowledge… With all the respect to the guys at Apple, Synthogy and EastWest.

(btw I'm quad jealous I'm still on a mono 1.8 G5 of 2003…)

[hahaworld]

>If I get you right, the guys at "Synthogy AND EastWest" . . .made you instal samples on your system drive, right?<

That's the impression I got from the calls and emails I made. No one at Synthogy OR EastWest said anything about it being on a drive besides the system drive.

>I'm sure if you instal a new drive in the quad, besides the system one, only for audio, it'll get wayyyy better. . .Drives are cheap these days, get a seagate in SATA (should cost the $130 or less) and run the samples from it.<

So, I'm new to SATA drives. Where is a good place to get a SATA drive? Are they easy to install inside the G5?

>The system drive will never be able to cope with calls for read/write from both the system, the apps, the virtual memory swap files, and files (especially audio streaming, recording or samples look out). . .Having the samples on the FW drive was a good move. but if you're using heavily samples and you're recording at the same time, having samples and audio recorded on different drives is a good move too. But the system drives should be only for the system, the apps, and other files. But once it's audio you're talking about, let's install them elsewhere.<

This is great information, my friend!

>Maybe they told you to put them on an internal drive but weren't that clear about it, or were concerned about the FW800 as it's not as good on G5 as it should be<

My LaCie drive also has FW400 connections. Would it run better if I just hooked up a 400 cable?

>Use the FW800 as a back up (or for recording audio and back up every day on the new internal, you'll have room to spare anyway), LaCie is serious, but I've heard a lot of complain about reliability of BigDisks, now they ARE fast (it's RAID 0 in BigDisks), so I'm careful.<

That sounds great. So to recap, I should install a Seagate SATA drive INSIDE my G5 and put all my samples on it, record audio on the LaCie drive and backup the audio on the internal SATA drive. Correct? Should I move all Apple samples and loops over to the SATA drive as well?

>It's stupid to have such power and not being able to use it because some supports are really lagging in common knowledge… With all the respect to the guys at Apple, Synthogy and EastWest.<

Yes, I've felt very stupid over the past few months. Thank you for helping shed some light on this. I owe you big time!

>(btw I'm quad jealous wink.gif I'm still on a mono 1.8 G5 of 2003…)<

That's a great machine, too, my friend. If yours is working great, I'm jealous of you right about now! Thanks again for all your help! I'll get back to you once I get the SATA drive installed and let you know how it goes. If you're ever in Knoxville, TN, holler at me and we'll have you over for steaks!

HaHaWorld

[gdoubleyou]

I would remove the samples from the system drive especially if you are attempting to stream the samples.

OSX will allways use part of your system disk for virtual memory, Logic will use the same disk to buffer audio tracks for playback, any plug that you initiate will also use virtual memory. Using the sytem monitor app I have observed virtual memory fluctuation between 8-9 GB with my humble sessions on my Powerbook.

OSX will have priority for disk access and may delay other apps in line for disk access. Also having less than 10GB free space on your system disk will affect performance.

[hahaworld]

Thanks for the input!

HaHaWorld

[hahaworld]

Hello, Friends!

It's been a couple of months since my last post. I have been in the trenches with my G5 Quad, and things are not looking very bright at all. To recap, here's my current setup:

PowerMac Quad 2.33G G5 Desktop
4.5G RAM
Logic 7.2.3
Samples running from additional SATA Seagate 330G internal hard drive (NOT the system drive)
Recording audio to a LaCie 500G 7200rpm external FW800 drive

No matter what I do, I cannot run more than four (4) AU instruments at once. Here's a "for instance" in LOGIC:

Inst 1: Synthogy Ivory Piano
Inst 2: EastWest Platinum Violin
Inst 3: EastWest Platinum Cello
Inst 4: GarageBand Legato Bass

Beyond that, the snaps, crackles and pops start, and I get the LOW MEMORY error messages, followed by an earth-shattering crash of Logic.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. I've considered just dropping the whole thing off a bridge and buying a PC, but I think that's probably a little extreme.

Thanks for all your help so far!

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

Oh!

I forgot to let you know that I can run this exact same setup and much more on my 2003 G4 1.33 GHz, 2G RAM laptop with no problems.

Brothers, this should not be.

[Mac Daddy]

hahaworld

I have been wondering how you have been. I remember when you purchased your G5 Quad. I was waiting to hear how you went. Terrible news. I feel you brother.

All I can suggest is selling it to a non-musician "Ad Agency-Graphic Designer" and get your old machine or a Dual. It ain't right. It's "F'd Up" I hope you get back to creating music again.

If there is anyway I can help you let me know.

Be cool, be clever, don't Bb.

[hahaworld]

Thanks for the kind words, MacDaddy.