Protools--vs--????, lost in the digi jungle----HELP!! Options

[Teiwaz]

Yes...rather annoying spurious background chatter...much like the pop up ads you get when surfing the web...

Now where is that wonderful pop up dodgydesign salesman window zapping software?

[Presto]

Bloody hell! Damann and Teiwaz!

Should we consider this Topic as your private chat room?

I think you are very insulting. I don't understand why.

[holli]

i can never really understand why people get obsessed with 'having protools', what do you mean Droltam?
The 001 is not really protools and if you have logic, why bother with their software. Sure though, I remember the latency being exceptionally low.

Many people new to audio gear can be sold almost anything at the least mention of the aforementioned company! Proceed with caution, the world of audio is changing fast and it's not enough to go on past reputations any more.

.. yes, fellow Brits here do have a fairly vigorous debating style!! It's meant with the best of intent I'm sure. We have a cultural tradition in England of poking things very hard with sticks, and if they stay standing they're probably very solid. It's all usually alright once you've stopped crying -we call it character building!

[lepetitmartien]

Just a quick word to tell again that tis forum is on PT vs something, NOT on recording saxes. Create a thread for that PLEASE.

It ain't a private chat thread either. (I think it's not the first time I have to interfer on this issue (grrrrrr)

Mr Holli, whatever character building is in England, it's against the United Nations Chart of the Rights of the Child. And I prefer polite informative threads than boxing rings.

Now back on PT vs alternatives which is the subject…

[holli]

hey,

a. yes I did start another thread concerning uad gear, forward thinking gear chat, and recording saxes as I hopefully found a shared interest with Presto (please tell me more dude ) If anyone has got all this out of their system, see you in the UAD thread for some enlightened futurology.

I was talking about saxes as a comparison Digi vs. Selmer, two companies that continue to sell gear based on past reputations who now need to pull their fingers out. Well, not that I care that much..

b."You are not your gear" Why are people taking criticisms of kit personally?

I thought freedom of speech and the right to express an opinion was important? Yes, it's not right to poke children with sticks but aren't I allowed to poke my 001 with a big stick! This is humor and I am refering to the equipment, not the owner. If "it" stands up to criticism, it's propbably very solid.

If hearing someone having a pop at your kit troubles you, I fear it may not be any great sentimentality or sympathetic anthropomorphism, but the knowledge that your hard earned dosh is sat in a companies bank account who don't give a s**t about you.

I have never read a single personal criticism to another member, nor would I want to, this is not the same as a vigorous deabte on the ethics of people who want our dosh. 'I've sold 1000 of these babies' is not justification enough to add virtue to a product. Is it wise to listen to the advice of a salesman who spends all day selling stuff to make a living, or a producer/musician who spends all day pushing the kit to it's limits?

c. Please read the MANY posts to this forum and others where I have tried to offer advice, as a previous experienced 001 owner, and extolled both it's virtues as a complete project studio solution for the newly initiated to mac music, and it's pifalls with lack of consistant compatiblity, customer support into the future and indeed design foresight in many cases.
Let's be really honest about it's place in the market and stop pretending to friends/collegues that if you have an 001 you have a protools rig. Has anyone heard the noise on those unbalanced outputs..geeeezz! It's an outmoded idea anyway.

luv Holli x ...tag!

[Teiwaz]

Now there's a man who knows his salt from his pepper...

3 cheers for Holli! Spot on m8. So refreshing.



Pro what?

Digi who?!

001 = 0?

[droltam]

Protools with Digi hardware sounds better than Cubase/Nuendo or logic.
Thats the answer.

[lepetitmartien]

For info, a smiley was missing in my post… corrected, better now.

And just remember that poking things is not everyone's habit in the world. You should be aware of that. A bit…

And the one going astray the most is our beloved Damann So don't take everything for you

I don't have much time, as I said in an other thread to be as present as I was. But in the current state of the soft of the forums, if we want them to be a good knowledge base (which it is already): the best is to have "on the topic" (as narrow as possible) threads. Sorry but it's like that.

Sorry if i don't use softer methods, I JUST DON'T HAVE TIME.

incident closed! thank you

[Tone]

[ I am an amateur who works with a home VST with no interest in the sale of prorietary products ]

I have been fortunate to find this splendid forum to help in my progress forward from Newbie a few short months ago and I respect the people who make themselves freely available to offer advice on relevant matters to those less knowledgeable on the matters in question.
I read with interest, and admiration, the problems and the methods suggested for solving the same.

However, I see despite the moderators attempts to channel the purpose(s) of the forum(s), it is obvious certain individuals are still misusing the stage for expressing an AVID desire to desparage one company in particular and, though I ignored it for a while expecting this would be a brief outlet of frustration (which I admit to being prone to on occasions), it is turning out to be systematic and continued.

Yes, free speech by all means but please don't take the silence of users of the products/company you hate (myself included - silent until now) as a licence to continue with unproductive name-calling. Personal and persistent attacks can only serve to devalue the aims of the forum and cast doubts on the motive and impartiality expected of those who are involved in providing advice.

We users exist at all levels and so denegrating a certain function for this or that reason compared to this or that Software does not mean it renders the targetted equipment useless and our choice(s) deemed to be determined by fast talking salespersons instead of logical research and advice.

I understand your need to impart information but please make it constructive, detailed and do it (poke the stick?) once and then leave us to decide.
I know there are other forums if I don't like what I read but this one seems to me to be more worthwhile. If I didn't believe this I wouldn't be taking the risk of a worsening the situation by answering in such detail.
I hope I havn't alienated anyone by making this earnest request.

Sincere thanks to those who have afforded me patient help and assistance in the past
Tony

[Teiwaz]

In response to droltam's quote:

"Protools with Digi hardware sounds better than Cubase/Nuendo or logic."


One just cannot come out with a comment like that without backing themself up with alternative system details! And it comes across as if droltam's talking about a SEMI-PRO Digi product here, the Digi 001...!

So, allow me to recap...Protools sounds better than what software with what hardware?! (a large grey area here)...One of those 001's with PT sounds best?? Again I ask, compared to what software/hardware? Or is droltam talking about a TDM PT system pitted against all other variations of software/hardware?!

First of all, have you ever heard Apogee's high end products? Such as the Apogee AD-8000SE? This unit replaces a digidesign 888/24, and sounds as good as, if not better than, a digidesign 192 (despite the fact that the Apogee has a maximum sample rate of just 48khz.)

Or how about Swissonic's fabulous AD/DA convertors? (Thought I had better mention them, I haven't before now...I slap myself on the wrist...)

Or is a Digi 001 better sounding than an Apogee AD-8000SE/Trak 2 running, for example, with Logic/Nuendo/DP? Is this what you're saying, droltam?! If so, then you may need to do some very in depth homework on pro kit...oh dear.



On a visit to Apogee's offices, I had an extended conversation there with one of their chief product designers and he concluded that the fattest sounding system of all taking ALL platforms (soft & hard) into consideration was...suprise suprise, Steinberg's Nuendo on, of all things, a PC! But that's WITH Apogee convertors, not Steinberg's own hardware. And we're comparing that system with a HIGH END Protools system here, the PTHD system with a 192 interface...NOT a Digi 001!!



I don't even use a PC, or Nuendo, so I'm not biased in this respect. I'm just relaying the facts as I know them.

Another interesting thing to note is the informed opinion of a highly respected drummer here in LA, and he concluded that out of all the digital sessions he has done to date that, a session he did using Apogee convertors and (again) Nuendo was the best sounding hard disk recording he had ever heard. He went on to say that he had never heard his drums so dynamic, so full of detail, and so punchy.

A drummer of his experience and professionalism, who has worked with everyone from Seal to Mick Jagger, knows the ropes, and knows it when his kit sounds good coming out of a pair of monitors.

As a Logic/Mac user, I use Apogee convertors with TDM/ASIO software, and I have to point out that you can't really argue with the fact that Apogee, along with Prism and Swissonic, are among the untouchables when it comes to AD/DA conversion.

As for how actual SOFTWARE performs in terms of audio quality, according to our man at Apogee:

1) Nuendo (PC - shock horror!) and Apogee convertors.
2) Logic Audio Platinum (Mac) and Apogee convertors.
3) Digital Performer (Mac) and Apogee convertors.
4) ProTools (Mac) and Apogee convertors.

To say that ProTools is the best sounding, sounds a little, in my own humble opinion, uninformed. Saying that their HARDWARE sounds the best is really laughable, especially when you're implying that the piece of kit in question is a Digi 001!! That's their budget $700 interface, and it sounds like CARP!



They used to 'sound' the best (they pioneered the first system, Sound Tools). But things have changed and we all have to keep jumping through new hoops in order to not end up convincing ourselves that something that used to be No.1 still is.

It's a painful reality for those who swear by their Digi stuff, but only because you, as an owner of PT, have invested a lot of your time creating your files in their software, and just as you get used to an old pair of slippers, you refuse to stop wearing them despite the fact that they are by now a bit tatty and the soles are wearing thin.

It's an interesting debate. Another important point here is that Bob Clearmountain co-founded Apogee, because he wasn't satisfied with the AD/DA convertors on the market.

I would like to hear from any true professional out there who owns or who has owned high end Apogee hardware to inform us that Digi hardware sounds better (and I'm definitely not referring to a Digi 001 here)...because correct me if I'm wrong, but the only person who would actually say that Apogee ain't as good, is someone who works for Digi...or sells Digi stuff. That wouldn't be you, would it droltam?



PS: Tone, it wasn't out of frustration that we have this opinion. It was out of dissatisfaction followed by liberation (going down the local music store and buying cheaper, and better kit.)