Protools--vs--????, lost in the digi jungle----HELP!! Options

[Presto]

I don't have much experience of tape sound quality, but I (and the rest of a choir) did record something with Nana Mouskouri onto 2" tape. I agree, it sounded great in the studio, but when I listen to the 33rpm LP, I wonder where it went.

Anyway, as music is sold and listened to on Cds now, it must go digital. Also, digital tools permit low budget ("a few grand") musicians to aquire and work on a complete vertical set-up, thus having complete control of each stage of their music creation, and even selling.

OK this means we can mess up our music at any of the stages, but if we don't, the final result can, in my opinion be quite sellable! Particularly if you use PT and can get a pro to use his PT to tidy it up.

I only use the sounds I record with my own mic (soon to become plural), with no midi and no sampling, and my ears say the sound is good. Will I lose it when it goes onto CD? Don't know yet.

Somebody is going to prove you can do it from home on a small budget, and I'm sure it will happen soon. I'll be putting my music up for sale on the web next year, and if it doesn't sell, I bet it won't be due to the quality of the sound.

Hey, everybody! You must believe, in some corner of your mind, that you could do it. Otherwise you wouldn't be here!

Why don't we have a vote? Oops, more work for Mr Webmaster!

[III777III]

VERY old NEWS

there are several MILLION people from the states to russia allready putting out work from there homes, even PROS (prince sold 1 million on the net)..

infact before internet even hit the scenes people did PRO WORK from home with the audio media 1 (not2). its the user not the audio gear,

if only the audio gear has the quality new user will HEAR the diference and learn to tweek better and wuicker with more bandwidth, with out that you can spend all night tweaking in reason with a mouse and noticing it skips 4dbs everytime u touch it..

So if its abut SOUND then allway get the best quality and you will allways get FASTER results, even if the app has poor editing ability, i rather sund good then look it..

Pro tools has great AUDIO editing abilities, but built mainly for POST not for writing tunes, you can but you will be missing more features in logic audio or even SPV if you only stay with PRO TOOLS.


try www.mp3.com or IUMA and you can sell your stuff there..

with the free mp3s going around you better gig or even just put demos online ofthe tunes ot forget it..

good luck

[Mr.T]

VERY old NEWS

there are several MILLION people from the states to russia allready putting out work from there homes, even PROS (prince sold 1 million on the net)..

Oh boy, this is never gonna end...can't keep myself from answering this one...
The original question is not whether you can sell music on the net or not...I think we all agree that you can. Prince may have sold a million records on the net, but please visit Paisley Park and tell me if all there is to see there is a G4 and a 001... last time I checked there was a "little more"gear than that...

[rickenbacker]

I don't think it matters what gear you're using - it still comes down to the song. As musicians and engineers (whether amatuer, semi-pro or pro), we listen with different ears to music compared to most people. The general public - the record-buying public - don't really care if the hi-hats sound a bit toppy or if the bass is too woolly. If they like the song and it's got a good guitar solo/chorus/lyric/whatever, that's all they care about. The production of the song isn't what impresses them when they first hear it. Maybe for some people, but for the most part it's the tune that counts.

Sometimes, you can get too hung up on the "production" of a song. Thousands of hit records have been made by people who wouldn't mind a G4 if they had the money, but made do with their PowerMacs/G3s/Ataris/PortaStudios, even (God forbid) Pentiums.

If you can't get a song right with your basic equipment and you're blaming your disappointments on a lack of "decent" equipment, you're looking at it upside down. I can think of at least half-a-dozen UK number ones from the past 5 or 10 years that were made in people's bedrooms.

[Presto]

"VERY old NEWS"

As Mr T says so rightly, Prince didn't do it with a low budget.

OK alot of people are selling from the net already, but what I meant is that one of these days, with all of us trying, somebody is going to sell a million on the net from an initial budget of just £3000, and all from home. Midnight may not be reading this, but his subject is quite pertinent (OK it's not strictly OS9 but that's where he put it).

"its the user not the audio gear"

Couldn't agree more! I believe my music is good (for the market I'm aiming at) - I must!!

"get the best quality (input) and you will allways get FASTER results"

I must admit that although I'm doing my composing at home, I re-record some parts (with my low budget set up) in a properly sound insulated studio (for free, and just up the road).

"if you only stay with PRO TOOLS ... you will be missing more features in logic audio or even SPV"

Will look into it.

" just put demos online of the tunes"

Of course!! Money, money, yummy, yummy.
Thanks for the encouragement, guys.

PS I use PTLE but, if I understand correctly, it doesn't seem to really matter which of the better apps you use, as long as what you put in is good, all of the links in the hardware/software chain fit together well, none are of significantly inferior quality than the rest, and you don't ruin the original sound by over-working it. Am I right?

PPS Thanks Rickenbacker. Yeah!

"I can think of at least half-a-dozen UK number ones from the past 5 or 10 years that were made in people's bedrooms."

But they were then worked on using expensive equipment?

[buryya]

To continue beating a dead horse on whether a commercial CD can be recorded in a home studio on PT - I"m somewhat ambivilent. As someone who has recorded in major studios in NY, LA and SF, I can without reservation claim that there is no comparison to a small project studios' output. I think the equipment in a pro studio plays a big role,but more importantly is the ears of a good engineer and producer. Years ago, in my own home studio before the age of PT, soft synths,plugs-ins,etc-with Vision Pro sequencing, an 8 track reel to reel deck for real guitar,bass and vocals, I laid down a tune I thought was real hot. At the time my neighbor was a hot shot LA engineer whom I invited in to take a listen. He redid the tune using the limited equipment I had at the time. Wow! What a fucking difference. I thought surely it was ready to print to CD. Yet I do agree that at this time PT can produce great demos.
A great pair of ears though is a wonderful asset.

[Mr.T]

The dead horse is coming alive...good points here.
But there's one thing none of you has mentionned...the role played by the majors and ADs or the editors in this silly game. Sure some artists have sold music on the net, but MANY MANY MANY more have sold records the old fashion way (CD). From then, unless you wish to produce and distribute your record yourself which, in my humble opinion and experience,is rarely bound to success, you'll have to give your baby to the majors (for production) or at list to a distributor (is that the word in English) and those guys will surely end up saying(in the best cases):"Yeah great songs! Are you ready to go to the big studio now?...". Now tell them you don't wish to do that since your songs are OK the way they are and see what happen...
Also, still in my opinion, self-production mostly means no advertising (no money); selling a record without first advertising(thru magazines, TV commercials, video clips...) it is a no no...unless you're called Prince and everyone is waiting for your next release...but most of us are not in this position...are we?...

[Synthetic]

I personally... I think you can record an excellent album at home with less than $1500 investment. But... it really depends on the music you are recording and the sound you wish to acheive. If you are a punk band that seeks the garage sound... with good recording technigues and mixing... then should be no problem getting a good quality CD from home. But... a lot depends on the person responsible for the actual recording and mixing. If they don't have the ear for it... then it will never sound good. If you want the sound heard from artists like Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac etc... then it will probably not happen in a modest home studio.

I think electronic musicians have a bit of the upper hand when it comes to recording good quality material. Most electronic musicians use the direct input approach with synths and samplers or use software based instruments and bypass the ever so tricky microphone recordings that depend on amplifiers and acoustics of the environent. I have more wuality recordings from indie electronic musicians than I have from indie rock bands for instance. The mix is another topic but the recordings are generally better.

Here is an example... MOBY...yes I know he makes tons of $$$ now days but he does all his recoding in his home studio (and I know his home studio is worth as much as some of our homes) but he does it all in his studio. He only relies on outside help with mastering of the finished product. He even creates the master disc using itunes on a g4. Now I have listened to his new CD a lot lately... it seems to have a bit more background noise in the recording than most studio releases but... the average consumer isn't going to realize that and it stills sells well.

I have reviewed a lot of music on broadjam.com and there are a lot of recordings I hear that aren't studio quality and probably done at home but the song itself was good enough that the cheaper recording didn't really bother so much. But on the other hand... I have heard some recordings that almost hurt my ears and quite honestly couldn't bare to listen to anymore. I think if you have good enough material to start with... and you make this material translate well on recording ... then quality sometimes doesn't have to be up to studio par. But, if the recording is so bad that it irritates the listener or they can't hear any detail or dynamics... then the material will never sell well no matter how well promoted.

If anyone is interested... there is a really interesting forum post happening at http://www.prosoundweb.com/ that is from a recording engineer know as Mixerman detailing his latest recording project. Its interesting to hear what really goes on in the big label studios.

Also, I will not that anyone interested in home recording should sign up for free subscription to TapeOp which is like an old school recording mag with some interesting reads about recording at home... studio or on location. You can find links to it at http://www.prosoundweb.com/ as well or I think you can go to www.tapeop.com

Just tossing in my 2 cents... ok... maybe it added up to 4 cents

ohh... i agree with T on the advertising thing... but lets not forget that a very small percentage of music being created would ever be accepted by the major labels for publishing and advertising... and those bigger labels are not always looking for the best music to sell... they want something that is going to sell NOW and make them profits and if your music doesn't fit into the current trend... your chances at getting a deal like that are slim to none no matter how good your music is. Lets also not forget that Joe Satriani sold his first CD's from trunk of his car. He was rejected at first but popularity soon grew and labels couldn't resist then.

[damann]

didn't i say all of this in the first place?
it dosen't matter whether you're using ssl, neve, pt, logic, edirol, or m-audio, it's about what YOU are capable of acheiving with it.
put mister 001 in front of an ssl desk and you'll find that what he does with it doesn't sound anything like as good as what mr ssl trained engineer does with an 001.
if you're wanting to record live strings etc , your "project studio" won't have the mics, pre's, rooms, etc to compete with pro facilities. however, if you're doing garage or whatever, maybe the pro studio won't be able to achieve the sound you want as easily as your humble project studio.
plenty of hit records are made in "project" facilities, it's about horses for courses and accumulated knowledge at the end of the day...
back to my favourite computer term.
garbage in/garbage out.
peace, later.

[burns]

ahhhhhhhh children !!!!!!!!