Digidesign MBox 2 USB, Computer Hardware Options

NO fw 400/800 and NO 24/96Khz?? Idiots. Everyone else is. Ah well, living in the past these days Digi is me thinks.

I have a great "home setup" around a Hammer 9632 192khz with Logic Pro, was hoping to have a Digi box too for edits/transfers but lack of 96k and no firewire means this is a no no.

Shame....
Bobbi Style
CEO
LTL Records

(ProTools HD3 owner too.)

Sounds like you have a nice home system. Sounds like you have a lot invested in it with what you describe. Do you think it's fair calling the people at
Digidesign idiots for having an entry level system? You can't buy a license of Logic Pro 7 for under a thousand (legally with taxes) and you get no interface. Granted you get A LOT of software but what if you're just starting out?

I see a lot of people poo-pooing Digi. I happen to like their stuff but also use other software, too. You're a pro and should know that 96 vs. 48 is not all that there's to it. Remember that the A/D converters make a huge impact. Also, the software makes a huge difference.

I don't know, it just seems harsh to call people idiots. As a software/hardware engineer, I admire their stuff. There's got to be a reason that so many people use ProTools. It can't be all hype. It's the same as Macs dominating the entertainment industry.

Best wishes to LTL Records!

Peace,

~Dale

NO fw 400/800 and NO 24/96Khz?? Idiots. Everyone else is. Ah well, living in the past these days Digi is me thinks.

I have a great "home setup" around a Hammer 9632 192khz with Logic Pro, was hoping to have a Digi box too for edits/transfers but lack of 96k and no firewire means this is a no no.

Shame....
Bobbi Style
CEO
LTL Records

(ProTools HD3 owner too.)

I had one other question. You mention "transfers". What do you mean by that? If you're a HD3 owner, what are you lacking that a Mbox with 96kHz offer? My LE sessions import directly into HD systems. If I was going to do some really high fidelity work with mics, I'd go to a studio and not use the Mbox at home.

I'm just trying to understand the "transfer" statement you made. A HD3 system costs around 10K. That's a lot more than a 0.5K system. java script:emoticon(':-/')
smilie

Thanks!

~Dale

[BobbiStyle]

NO fw 400/800 and NO 24/96Khz?? Idiots. Everyone else is. Ah well, living in the past these days Digi is me thinks.

I have a great "home setup" around a Hammer 9632 192khz with Logic Pro, was hoping to have a Digi box too for edits/transfers but lack of 96k and no firewire means this is a no no.

Shame....
Bobbi Style
CEO
LTL Records

(ProTools HD3 owner too.)

I had one other question. You mention "transfers". What do you mean by that? If you're a HD3 owner, what are you lacking that a Mbox with 96kHz offer? My LE sessions import directly into HD systems. If I was going to do some really high fidelity work with mics, I'd go to a studio and not use the Mbox at home.

I'm just trying to understand the "transfer" statement you made. A HD3 system costs around 10K. That's a lot more than a 0.5K system. java script:emoticon(':-/')
smilie

Thanks!

~Dale

Hi Dale

To answer your questions the HD3 is not at my home studio, hence the need for an MBox to "transfer" from ProTools sessions to Logic Pro. 96khz is my usual record/mix depth so it also needs this compatibility to open and export the sessions correctly (also incase of last minute edits). As I am only doing this function I do not wish to purchase a 002R for instance so I am disappointed at their lack of 96khz. The MBox 1 is better specked with Focusrite pre's and being almost identical in other areas. A lack of 2 headphones is annoying but livable. USB 1 is just plain stupid when everyone else is either Firewire or USB 2 and USB is real "glitchy" too. Even though I don't need it for recording and all of the things it is designed for I still have an opinion of what it is and how it compares in the market place. At the moment, an M-Audio FireWire box with PT LE will have to do instead, which is sad as Digidesign should have a better base box than their freshly acquired M-Audio company

I watch Digidesign's development as I have over a decade invested in them in hardware purchases and overall "devotion" to their format and software platform. It worries me to see them abandon the end that could float them as they concentrate on their ICon series of products (which I would love to own). Word of warning to them, they killed of AMS-Neve and SSL from being the large industry standards for music/postpro/video mixing etc. and they were the relative "small guy" when they did this. (Hello Euphonix anyone?) If they ignore this end of the market then they too will be bumped off. It also worries me that their software is way behind the market. To slip in such largely important areas is a big concern when you have so much invested in their products and for your own career and overall income. As for calling them idiots, I would call a friend an idiot if he or she did and equally stupid move also. They need to know this from their users and reevaluate their current trend to re-bundle plugin packages with hardware to get people to buy while not developing updates (I know, 6.4-6.9 software updates) or new products that are truly a step forward.

But to sum it up, this product is way below market standards and is not worth the money and most Digidesign users know that the new Focusrite Saffire Box was going to be the new MBox 2 and the one Digidesign has delivered is nothing more than a re-boxed slightly reworked original MBox minus the Focusrite hardware. Sad but true. Let's hope Digidesign manages to rediscover their innovative side and start making some great new products for Digidesign fans LIKE MYSELF who are having difficulties in justifying continued investment in their products and customer devotion. (The HD range hasn't been updated in over 18 months either.) They were the leaders for a long time, I wish they would be again.

Regards
Bobbi

Ref:
Focusrtie Saffire
http://www.focusrite.com/productdetails.as...?id=38&iRange=5

M-Audio 410
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Fire...re410-main.html

NO fw 400/800 and NO 24/96Khz?? Idiots. Everyone else is. Ah well, living in the past these days Digi is me thinks.

I have a great "home setup" around a Hammer 9632 192khz with Logic Pro, was hoping to have a Digi box too for edits/transfers but lack of 96k and no firewire means this is a no no.

Shame....
Bobbi Style
CEO
LTL Records

(ProTools HD3 owner too.)

I had one other question. You mention "transfers". What do you mean by that? If you're a HD3 owner, what are you lacking that a Mbox with 96kHz offer? My LE sessions import directly into HD systems. If I was going to do some really high fidelity work with mics, I'd go to a studio and not use the Mbox at home.

I'm just trying to understand the "transfer" statement you made. A HD3 system costs around 10K. That's a lot more than a 0.5K system. java script:emoticon(':-/')
smilie

Thanks!

~Dale

Hi Dale

To answer your questions the HD3 is not at my home studio, hence the need for an MBox to "transfer" from ProTools sessions to Logic Pro. 96khz is my usual record/mix depth so it also needs this compatibility to open and export the sessions correctly (also incase of last minute edits). As I am only doing this function I do not wish to purchase a 002R for instance so I am disappointed at their lack of 96khz. The MBox 1 is better specked with Focusrite pre's and being almost identical in other areas. A lack of 2 headphones is annoying but livable. USB 1 is just plain stupid when everyone else is either Firewire or USB 2 and USB is real "glitchy" too. Even though I don't need it for recording and all of the things it is designed for I still have an opinion of what it is and how it compares in the market place. At the moment, an M-Audio FireWire box with PT LE will have to do instead, which is sad as Digidesign should have a better base box than their freshly acquired M-Audio company

I watch Digidesign's development as I have over a decade invested in them in hardware purchases and overall "devotion" to their format and software platform. It worries me to see them abandon the end that could float them as they concentrate on their ICon series of products (which I would love to own). Word of warning to them, they killed of AMS-Neve and SSL from being the large industry standards for music/postpro/video mixing etc. and they were the relative "small guy" when they did this. (Hello Euphonix anyone?) If they ignore this end of the market then they too will be bumped off. It also worries me that their software is way behind the market. To slip in such largely important areas is a big concern when you have so much invested in their products and for your own career and overall income. As for calling them idiots, I would call a friend an idiot if he or she did and equally stupid move also. They need to know this from their users and reevaluate their current trend to re-bundle plugin packages with hardware to get people to buy while not developing updates (I know, 6.4-6.9 software updates) or new products that are truly a step forward.

But to sum it up, this product is way below market standards and is not worth the money and most Digidesign users know that the new Focusrite Saffire Box was going to be the new MBox 2 and the one Digidesign has delivered is nothing more than a re-boxed slightly reworked original MBox minus the Focusrite hardware. Sad but true. Let's hope Digidesign manages to rediscover their innovative side and start making some great new products for Digidesign fans LIKE MYSELF who are having difficulties in justifying continued investment in their products and customer devotion. (The HD range hasn't been updated in over 18 months either.) They were the leaders for a long time, I wish they would be again.

Regards
Bobbi

Ref:
Focusrtie Saffire
http://www.focusrite.com/productdetails.as...?id=38&iRange=5

M-Audio 410
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Fire...re410-main.html

Hi Bobbi,

I completely understand your point of view, believe me. I'm not trying to promote a certain product, either.

I do actually see this as a transition product, though. You know that there were issues with the Focusrite preamps in Mboxes. Some say that they were rejects or seconds (perhaps out of spec), etc. Digidesign has redesigned the hardware and there are much better A/D converters. The preamps are better, too. MIDI I/O has been added. These are not M-Audio guts with Mbox faces. Also, ProTools LE software is different than the M-Audio version. I'm sure you know that but I thought I'd mention it for anyone that's reading this.

What I do know is you get ProTools LE software and a interface that is pretty darn good for 500 bucks. I don't know of any software/hardware combo that is equal to it. Tracktion and Spike? No. Cubase package? No. Look at the feature lists. They don't compare. Internally, I can have a sample rate that is only limited by CPU. When I record vocals or a guitar on my home studio, I putting down concepts and ideas that I can take to the studio. When I get to the studio, I can transfer my stuff directly into a HD system and begin working on it. I think that's the idea of the Mbox. It's not cutting edge. If anything it's trailing edge. What it will do is provide a consistant software package that people can learn on and then transfer their ideas to a professional studio.

I do understand your point, though. I try to cut thru the hype and get straight to the point. I see Mbox 2 as a nice tool but not lacking in any way.
USB works fine on my Mac. I run a Mac because they're less fussy.

Perhaps I'm not at your level. My ears may not be that good. I just see Mbox 2 as an entry level (foot in the door) way into the ProTools world. When I look at what people are using in the professional world, I see ProTools, Macs, Live, Reason, NI stuff, Logic Pro and a few others. That's the software I use, too (except Logic Pro). The only thing holding me back is lack of talent and time.

Thanks for your insight. I appreciate your answers and point of view.

Peace.

~Dale

[rickenbacker]

Any company that releases a USB 1.1 audio interface in this day and age must have been living in (a) a cave or (b) a commercial vacuum for the past couple of years. Pro Tools, schmo tools - the spec of this product, released into a very competitive marketplace in 2005, is beyond a joke. In fact, it's almost an insult to anyone who ends up seduced by Digi's glossy adverts and winds up buying one, only to find they can't use it with any other software and they're stuck with a product that was hardly cutting edge three years ago.

A lot of people like to record everything at home. They won't be transferring to a bigger setup in a big shiny studio, ever. They're only going to buy one interface and they'd like it to be a good one. So, IMHO, Digi are selling these people very short from the get go. Of course, if it's only intended for Butch Vig to knock up a few rough demos on the plane whilst on tour, it's a fine product.

But for a home or project studio, it's sorely lacking in too many areas. For less money, you can have a FireBox, a Saffire, an FA-66, an M-Audio box etc etc and use whatever software YOU want to use. And still be able to record rough demos on the plane whilst on tour.

Also, increasing the internal sample rate of a sequencer doesn't improve the live acoustic audio you've already recorded - it just makes the files bigger. You don't capture more detail retrospectively. You need an interface that captures and converts at a higher sample rate in the first place. The Mbox 2 is not that interface.

[dave-g]

It's so sad to see "what could have been" with the new mbox when you look at a great product like the Saffire. the saffire is basically a "wish list" that many of us on the digiforum were asking for in the next mbox, almost every feature, even the ones that we didn't ever expect to see like on-board DSP! at least someone listened!

it seems that the marketing folks at digi are more worried about cannibalizing market share of the 002 than making a great entry level product that would attract even more users into the pro-tools world. it's really short sighted though as a lot of folks just getting into recording are going to buy hardware based on specs and recommendations since they don't have experience with any particular software yet.

bad things happen to big companies don't listen to their customers and act purely on marketing projections and the quarterly profit mentality. i wouldn't be surprised to hear how digi tells investors that they are "disappointed by slow sales of the new Mbox2" which are well below our projected sales..."

I have the feeling that this "new" product is digi's way of buying time until they can figure out what they are going to do without having focusrite as a development partner... i do like the M-Audio FW interfaces (i've got the FW410 for location recording) but they don't have the cred that focusrite had so it may take a while.

only time will tell!


Dave-G

[toddr]

So I paid $500 for a presonus firepod brand new, with 8 nice mic pres and 2 inserts and spdif I/O and cubase le, how is the mbox 2 for $450 going to sell,

USB 1.1 ??? How can they not upgrade to usb 2.0 I mean walmart sell usb 2.0 drives and etc, and Digi cant even make it 2.0 or even Firewire 400

So this sucks bad, they add some new crappy software (plugins) add Midi I/O and thats IT?????

OH and they totally scrapped the INSERTS on the mic pres, NO INSERTS
And last but not least it is still 24bit/48k which is the now almost obsolete DAT Specs, jeese even M-audio has crappy firewire interfaces, get with it Digi,

they take the guts from the old and shove it in the new,

any more info on this would be great, I cant even find the real specs on this thing
Digi's specs for the mbox 2 are quote " Pristine Sound" what the hell does this mean?????
you would think they would at least rip off the presonus Firebox,
Digi only cares about the HD systems because thats where the real money is made

Im out

[dangt]

Gee, you people are making a lot of fuss over his, get over it! and go make some music on your own crap systems.

So we can do the same on our crap set-ups.

It seems like a good product. pretty much a 4-tracker with Midi
and a killer software bundle. good entry level set-up or mobile set-up.

Each to their own choice. I feel the Digi products and sound software will continue to rule the sound production market for a while yet, cause of the quality of product and superior sound ability. you can esily get caught up in specs and numbers but its about what you produce and hear, that determines the quality of a product.

[toddr]

well your right about that, go make music, its the finished music product that counts right?, which is usually a 16bit/44.1 CD anyway

I just think that Digidesign is a huge company with alot of design experts and I believe if they tried to go firewire or 24/96k on the mbox 2 , then they would lose a ton of sales on the 002 rack because half of the 002 rack users are using less than 8 tracks anyway, some are just doing overdubs or 2 track mix stuff, 002 rack has been selling constantly while sales of the old Mbox are slowing, so I see why a new box could help them and us ,but they could still get the others to drop $1199 for a 002 rack,

its kinda cool looking and the lay down function is nice but they could have impressed a little better like apple does or Presonus, or RME

but if you dont have to have PT LE there are better options, besides files are files, AIFF, .wav, whatever you can use any software nowadays, who cares about what the starving big studios are using, their starving..

[dave-g]

I guess the thing that really burns me up is that you can drop $500 on a brand new (but totally outdated) interface which can barely meet most people's needs, or you can drop $1100 on interface with FW but has this power harness issue that's like a ticking time-bomb waiting to let you down in the middle of a session.... I don't like the odds. oh wait, I guess I could spend $10,000 on a rock solid pro tools system, but I'd have to sell a kidney or two and maybe a liver, oh wait can't sell that, it's damaged...

that's why for $500 digi should have thrown us a bone (instead of giving us one). I'm tired of marketing weasels running companies, engineers should be running companies! don't get me wrong, I love pro-tools, it may be the best music production software out there, I just wish that the affordable (under $1000) interfaces matched the quality of their software.

dave-g