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> I Need Some Help With My Setup - Badly
post Sat 21 May 2005, 02:55
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I am at wits end with my setup. I have a rather complex MIDI setup that involves several hardware effects processors and samplers. When I started this endeavor - I was told that (prior to purchasing) the MOTU MTP A/V was capable of storing and recalling 'scenes' in this fashion:

All of my gear works together in a chain to create 1 sound (i.e. the sampler is on fx patch 2, the Nord G2X is on patch 12, the Nord Micro is on patch 99, the Boss VF-1 is on patch 38, etc...). I was told that after I determine and set which machine needs to be on which patch/preset in order to achieve a particular effect/sound - that I could then save a 'snapshot' or program the changes (via MOTU's Clockworks app) of where they all are as a 'scene' which could be called up via my MIDI foot controller as a Program Change message (0-127) which would then switch all my gear at once. Therefore - in a live setting I could basically punch up any one of my effects chain 'scenes' via the foot controller and ALL my gear would switch itself accordingly. Now, due to the fact that a number of pieces have 'user-presets' that can only be tweaked to my liking (not stored as whatever patch number I choose) - I cannot just put everything on MIDI channel 1 and send an OMNI Patch Change message because I would be stuck with the sequential order of things. I need to have this one on 1, another on 59, another on 6, and so on.

So - after several months of going back and forth with Emagic, Apple, MOTU, and 2 studio engineers that I paid $50/hr to help me figure it out - I come to find out that it's not possible with anything I have. We thought that running Logic live (because of it's insane MIDI capabilities) would do the trick but we have hit a brick wall with that. The closest we have been able to come is setting up all my gear on MIDI channel 1 and setting up 127 'sequences' in the Arrange window for each piece of gear. Each individual 'sequence' was made to do nothing more than a patch change for that particular piece of gear. i can cycle through them SEQUENTIALLY ONLY via the '+' key that I set to 'GoTo Next Marker'. Unfortuately I can't trigger this 'GoTo Next Marker' command remotely via the foot controller. There is no CC# or PC# or anything I can do to make Logic trigger any necessary command that we have found.

***Interjection*** I never wanted to have to run ANYTHING off my laptop live. I was told that the MOTU MTP/AV would be able to do this very thing and be an autonomous (of the computer) rackmount hardware unit. Well - it relies on MIDI 'cannons' and 'modifiers' that can ONLY be programmed via OS9 (wtf kind of shit is that?). Fine - we did that. Only to find out that the 'scene' commands can't be REMOTELY TRIGGERED via a foot controller. ARGH!!! So I freakin' had to concede and accept the fact that I am only going to be able to do this via my laptop. However - I have no room in my setup nor any inclination to have that thing up front with me to get trashed or beer thrown on it etc. It will have to run on the side/back stage so that I can call up whatever patch change info I need via my foot controller or the numeric keypad on my Evolution MK-425 keyboard.

So - recalling that a guy I used to know (Vincent DeFranco) used to use Max/MSP to create 'programs' for the IR Dimension Beams he invented - I decided to call Pluggo and ask them if their app could do this since nothing else freakin' can. They told me yes. I asked them several times several different ways and they said yes. They said that it would be a rediculously simple thing to ask Max/MSP to do - I would just have to find a guy who knew how to create this relatively 'simple' program. They said that this kind of stuff is what Max/MSP was made to do. I was told that I could download a 30 day fully-functional trial and - if I were able to make this 'program' with all the patch change info during that 30 day period - I would be able to just run Max/MSP Runtime and I would never have to pay a dime. I am NOT adverse to paying $500 for the app if it can do it and not be some cobbled-together situation that ends up being an unreliable headache.

I guess I would like to know if it's possible... and if it's possible could someone help me out because the GUI isn't exactly user-friendly or intuitive. In theory - Logic should've been able to handle it but it can't. In theory the MOTU MTP A/V should've been able to handle it but it was a bust too.

I would appreciate any insight, help, or ideas with regards to how I can make this 'seemingly simple' thing happen. Lastly - here is a link to a picture and audio/MIDI routing information on my live gear setup. The speakers would actually be flipped around in a live setting and I am in the process of designing and building the box it all goes in. TIA:

- Hyde
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Lemon Tiger
post Wed 25 May 2005, 13:26
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Joined: 25-May 05
From: X - UK
Member No.: 66,107

Hi -

I'm not sure if I fully understand your situation, but I've just been trying to dig up information on systems for doing MIDI patching + program changes, so I thought I'd share a couple of links. Apart from the MOTU MTP AV, the other systems that seem to crop up are the Miditemp PMM88-E:

...and the Opcode Studio 5LX

For simple patch changes, the Yamaha MFC-10 foot controller can apparently send program changes to up to four devices at once:
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