Anyone Using Finale With A Mac? Options

[blueroom]

I recently purchased a Roland Fantom X6. I use a Mac G5 and have installed Finale 2005. I can't seem to get Finale to send patch changes to the Fantom. When I do the Tutorial in the Finale tutotial book (chapter 6 - more midi topics) the result I get is not correct - the patch assignments are not recognized by the X6 - it plays all the parts with the one sound - whichever sound the X6 has selected on its screen - not affected by the data I have entered in Finale. However, I can enter notes in Finale using the X6 as a midi source so I know the computer and the X6 are sending and receiving the midi signal.

Is anyone at this site using Finale with a Mac? Can you offer any suggestions to get me started?

Any help would be appreciated.

blueroom

[ghess]

I've not used the Fantom, but I do use Finale with an XV-2020. Here are some things to check.

1. Open MIDI Setup and make sure the Fantom is set as the Input and Output device for channels 1-16

2. Under the MIDI menu, make sure that Internal Speaker Playback is set to "off"

3. Open the Instrument list. Set each staff to a different instrument. Do not change the channels listed, just select an instrument from the popup menu. Also be sure "Send patches before play" is checked

4. Make sure the Fantom is in GM or a Multitimbral mode.

Hope that helps.

[MidiMacMan]

1. Open MIDI Setup and make sure the Fantom is set as the Input and Output device for channels 1-16

2. Under the MIDI menu, make sure that Internal Speaker Playback is set to "off"

3. Open the Instrument list. Set each staff to a different instrument. Do not change the channels listed, just select an instrument from the popup menu. Also be sure "Send patches before play" is checked

4. Make sure the Fantom is in GM or a Multitimbral mode.

Hope that helps.

These are some really good things to check.

Might I also add some things about number 3. If you don't have this box checked, then the instrument patches will come from whatever you have stored as the played mix of instruments on your synth. In other words this will over ride the instruments that you have set in finale.

Try experimenting with playback with this box unchecked. The reason that I mention this is because it seems that the problem is not getting the instrument signals into Finale from the synth correctly, instead of the other way around. Whereas BlueRoom first mentioned:

The result I get is not correct - the patch assignments are not recognized by the X6 - it plays all the parts with the one sound - whichever sound the X6 has selected on its screen - not affected by the data I have entered in Finale.

The problem seems the other way around to me. Finale is not getting the correct data from the synth. Do you need an audio interface to synchronize the multi channel recording that I think you are trying to utilize? I have had an Edirol UM- 550 in use with my setup for about a year now with Finale so I guess that I am not sure if I am steering you right here.

Think about the whole process like this. Finale is not the one that you want to provide the playback. SO you need to direct the sound through the synth. Make sure that that you are telling Finale to send multiple channels of sound through your soundcard and out to you synth which puts them all together and then plays them back through say analog. That is the way that I multi track record with Finale. I use to use the pencil tool. For many years I did that.

I am using a QS6 and the interface that I have mentioned, but the synth allows 16 channel recording simultaneously, so check for that setting that Guess mentioned:

"GM or Multitimbral Mode". (Mine says: general midi=on, keboard mode=normal, midi out=out, I/O=midi, and control a mode=midi). And I constantly fool with all the buttons on everything randomly to make it all work sometimes. I am sure that you know the feeling though, so when I give you the option of "audio voo-doo" you aren't completely second guessing my advice either, I hope.

Let us know what you make out of all this though, as I have used Finale extensively as a composer.......or trying to be a composer anyway.

Good Luck,
MidiMacMan

[beltunabob]

Blueroom,

You might try the Finale forum. I'm at a similar stage of learning Sibelius. Of the four pieces I have written and placed on a friend's website, one comes back with an awful fake piano sound in all parts, instead of the wind trio is was written for. The others sound as they did when composed.

Since there are different options in playback, DLS, OSX midi, and Kontack Silver. I'm assuming the 'mistake' was made there, in my case.

Good luck!

[leekunkel]

I have also just been through the same hoops with Sibelius. Have both Sibelius and Finale on a G5 with Fantom X8 attached and an RME Digiface I/O.
1. You must first have your Fantom set up in OSX Audio Midi Setup. You will find it in the utilities section of your Mac HD or may be able to access it from a menu within Finale (Sibelius has a link to it in the "Play" dropdown menu.) This step is confusing because the Fantom will appear as an I/O device. You must set up another device. The name you give it must be consistent in all entries. Then attach this device (Fantom X6) to the Fantom I/O in Audio Midi Setup.
2. You must make sure that you have a patch file which Finale and OSX will recognize as the patch file for your Fantom. In my case, I had to download a less that perfect patch file from Sibelius for Fantom XR (That's the rack version but it has the same patches and locations). Then I opened the patch editor that is in Sibelius' "Play" menu and made changes consistent with the Midi Setup data in the back of my Fantom manual (p. 330 has MIDI locations for the various patch file menus). Roland also has a text version of the patch files available on its website.
3. You must also make sure that you set up your interface (DLS device or sound card) to use the Fantom X for real time and flex time input.
4. On the same window (in Sibelius) you must assign the correct patch file to your DLS (I/O) device. In my case, this is how the RME Digiface is identified.

Even after all of this there are still some glitches in instrument assignments but am reasonably happy with it. Will tweak it more when I have time.
Hope this will be helpful

[leekunkel]

One other thing that I failed to mention in the previous post. The midi locations are best accessed from the Mac if you do the following:
1. On your X6 go to the system menu/sounds
2. The top entry on that menu, "Local Control" can be toggled On/Off.
3. Set it to "off" when you want to use your keyboard as a controller for external programs or devices.
4. Push the soft button at the bottom under "system write."
5. Don't worry. It is very easy to change it back. When you turn off your Fantom, it will normally come up with this toggled to "on."

[blueroom]

Thank you to ghess, MidiMacMan, beltunabob, and leekunkel!

Re beltunabob's suggestion re Finale forum - thanks I didn't know it existed. I have now found it and will check it out.

Re leelunkel's suggestions about turning off "local switch' on the Fantom, I have now tried that and, while the result is different, it's still not correct. i will tinker with this further. Re the OSX midi set up - I thought I had done that properly but will try out your suggestions to set up another devise... sounds more complicated than it should be... but I will go there if nothing else works

Re what both ghess and MidiMacMan said about "open the instrument list...do not change the channels listed..." I'm puzzled. I had assigned each staff its own patch on its own channel (e.g. staff one is "flute", midi channel one, GM 74 Flute, staff two is "Choir", midi channel two, GM 111 Choir Aahs, etc) When you say not to change channels...don't understand - I have to assign each sound its own channel, no?

Re MidiMacMan - appreciate the thoughtful reply - I am going to need more time to try out each of these suggestions. I can relate to the frustrations and gratifications of trying to compose with Midi.

After I have tried all this out I will post news if I achieve success. Thanks all!

blueroom

[joehosefat]

After scanning through all of this, just one simple comment - the Fantom is set in Performance Mode, not Patch Mode, correct? I have a Fantom-S88, which is virtually the same in operation, and if Finale is sending multitimbral information, all info will be ignored except MIDI channel 1 (the key patch) and channel 10 (the rhythm patch) when the Fantom is in patch mode - it must be in Peformance Mode to receive on all 16 channels. The information about patch names is also interesting - I had obtained a patch name document for one of the older Fantoms, and have modified it to match my own patch library (including the SRX cards I installed). It was a matter of manually inputting the patch names in a text editor, and adding the banks that did not exist in the original document. I am now able to access the patches by name from within Pro Tools (which I use for MIDI). Just my 2 cents.

[ghess]

Re what both ghess and MidiMacMan said about "open the instrument list...do not change the channels listed..." I'm puzzled. I had assigned each staff its own patch on its own channel (e.g. staff one is "flute", midi channel one, GM 74 Flute, staff two is "Choir", midi channel two, GM 111 Choir Aahs, etc) When you say not to change channels...don't understand - I have to assign each sound its own channel, no?

Finale handles program changes in a rather strange way. Rather than letting you just send a program change on a channel, it defines an instrument such as flute and assigns it a MIDI channel. The default setup has 16 common instruments defined, one for each channel. What I was saying is don't change the channel assignment or you will end up with two different timbres assigned to the same channel, which of course won't work. For example, in the default setup Grand Piano is set to channel 1 and Flute is set to channel 4. If you change Flute to channel 1 in the Instrument list, it will say Flute channel 1, but the program change message will still be for Grand Piano. You have to also change the patch under the GM column or better yet Select View by Instruments and edit the instrument. Once instruments are edited to your liking, you can store it as a Library (File:Save Library) and also include it in your default template.

[leekunkel]

While finishing my setup for DP4 today, I discovered that in order to use the Fantom as a rack synth, I had to set it to Mixer mode. Otherwise I was limited to the two channels on which it normally sends and receives in patch mode. Normal settings are for channel 1 and channel 10 to send and receive in patch mode. In Mixer mode the Fantom can receive midi data on up to 16 channels. Am not sure why I did not have the same problem with Sibelius.