'Serious' Audio on iBook 700? Options

[Tim]

I am switching to Mac and generally want a laptop. I actually have already bought an MBox from digidesign. Initially, I intend to use ProTools LE, Absynth. I envision myself running mostly MIDI, with half of a dozen audio tracks. I intend to also get a glyph drive in the future.

So, knowing that, will the iBook 700 suffice. The debate of course between it and the PB (maybe 550). It seems like the iBook will be fine, especially when packed with 640 of RAM, but I've read comments here and there on the net about how it isn't for the 'Serious' audio production. No, I'm not recording the next Puff Daddy album, but I want something that I won't outgrow for 2-3 years.

Any opinions are great, especially from current iBook owners...

Thanks,
Tim.

[damann]

the powerbook has a g4 processor of course.
g4 chips employ 'altivec' which seriously enhances processing power.
more and more music software utilizes this, to the point that there are actually plugs around these days that require it.
raw power becomes increasingly necassary for music software.
the new powerbooks also have a faster data buss that also helps.
ibooks are currently the only machines in the apple range that still use g3 chips, this won't be the case for much longer!
the only way you'll ever be happy to be making music on the same computer in 2-3 years time will be to buy the best technology currently available and cross your fingers.
also, sorry to say that protools is not the obvious choice for midi. cubase, logic and performer are seriously better in this area. also the mbox connects via usb which is definitely the slow lane!
finally, i use absynth, it's excellent but hits the cpu harder than any other vsti around, definitely needs a g4 if you're 'gonna rely on it heavily.
sorry if i'm depressing you, just trying to help.

[Synthetic]

But on the brighter side.... I have a 350mhz Blue and White g3 (320 mb ram) at home running a Digi001 with ProTools 5.2 LE (and glyph x-project 30gig firewire drive) and I actually am able to do quiet a lot on it. My only limitations are the amount of plugs I can use. I usually can run about 4-5 plugs before the cpu craps out but some reverbs suck it up so much that 2-3 plugs may be max. I work around this by using plugs last and then bouncing my tracks to free up cpu cycles.

So yes the 700mhz ibook can do serious music... I don't see it being to overwhelmed by any app unless you just love to go crazy with the plugs. But, I just passed on that ibook for a refurbished g4 550 because I always try to get as much power as I can afford so that you may be willing to keep current system longer before the need to upgrade again. That's my theory anyway. Good luck.

Ohh... even though Mbox uses USB.and USB speed is slow but since the Mbox is only handling 2 inputs and ouputs... its enough speed to keep up with that amount of data and should work fine.

[rickenbacker]

I agree with Synthetic. I test equipment for magazine reviews and just this week I've had an Mbox (and Pro Tools LE 5.1.2) running alongside the Glyph Companion 80Gb FireWire drive, all connected to my iBook 600MHz. No problems. 24 tracks in PT LE? No problems. No glitches, nothing. You can worry too much about power and getting the very best computer for your needs, but you know as soon as you walk out of the shop that your brand-new machine is already growing out-dated and will be superceded within 6 months. I bought my iBook in December 2001: within 4 months there's a 14.1' screen/700MHz version available. C'est la vie!

The only concerns for me were with PT LE, because although it's a cool program, getting new plugs and VSTis are breathtakingly expensive. The whole VST scene is definitely geared to Cubase/Logic. You can use the Mbox with these sequencers, too, so it's not a big issue. The DigiRack plug-ins that comes with PT LE sound good, though, so if you're happy to resist the hard-sell that surounds every new 'must-have' VST plug, PT LE and an iBook will serve you well. Sure, new plug-ins are fun and make great sounds, but they won't write better songs for you.

Aphex Twin has all his sounds in a low-power G3 PowerBook, FatBoy Slim doesn't even have a Mac, The KLF recorded everything on an Atari etc etc. A 700MHz G3 would have been awesome even a year ago, so don't worry about being underpowered - unless you want to record 48 channels of the London Philharmonic Orchestra :-).

[Catmixer]

Thanx Rickenbacker and Synthetic...You sorted me out from a lot of mixed thoughts regarding PB vs. ibook...A couple of questions: For you, the .lucky man that gets to try gear for audio mags: How does your ibook work with Logic and VST and could you please recomend on a sound card/ audio/MIDI interface that would work well with that set-up? I can't afford to spend more than $200-300 (preferably less then that, please)
Peace...

[rickenbacker]

Hmmm, not sure how much help I can be. I do have Logic on my iBook, but a fairly old version (4.2!) although this runs just fine. I'm sure the latest version would be just as good - judging from general opinion on the web, it seems fairly stable now. VST plugs and instruments are also fine - I get occasional problems whatever program I'm running, which is all just part of the "fun" of computer music.

As for audio+Midi I/O, that's a big subject. It all comes down to personal preference, your favourite sequencer and cold hard cash. There are plenty of options: the Mbox is very good, although this is designed to deliver its best performance with Pro Tools LE (plus I can't get any other hardware to register in the version of PTLE that comes bundled with the Mbox). Midiman make a few hardware options (Omni Studio, Audiosport Quattro, Duo) but they do have a somewhat "variable" reputation.

The Tascam US224 might suit you: around £260 here in the UK and you get one Midi I/O, one digital I/O and two channels of audio. No phantom power for condenser mics, though (the Mbox has phantom power). But it's pretty good - again, I've got one on my desk right now that I was testing last night and it works well. It's also a control surface for practically every sequencer out there, so that's a bonus. There's also the US428, but that's more expensive and I don't know if the extra features are really essential.

There's also a Roland U8 (don't know much about that) and I have a Swissonic USB-Studio D, but these cost more than $300. If you know that you want to work with Logic, eMagic do the EMI 2/6 USB audio interface (very nice by all accounts) and the MT4 USB Midi interface, which will probably set you back about £450. That's about $600, I think, which is double your budget, but with computer music, you get what you pay for. Better to get the best once (within reason - we're not all made of money) than end up wishing you'd spent the extra, selling your gear at a loss in order to make the move to the gear you should have bought in the first place.

Hope that make sense! Basically, buy the very best you can afford and if it means waiting a little while so you can save the extra cash, it'll totally be worth it. I bought my Swissonic by selling all my outboard gear - hard-disk recorders etc - as I made the decision to go totally software with my iBook. No regrets... yet! In your situation, maybe the US224 is a safe bet. Good sound, good price, excellent support on the Tascam website. Plus you can use it as an audio+Midi I/O with virtually any sequencer, so you're free to use what you like. OS X drivers now available, too! No bigger than an iBook (and lighter) and USB-bus powered, so a neat portable solution.

[Catmixer]

Hi mate!
Thanx for all the info, you've been great help...When I'll get chance I'll log on to Tascam's website and check out US prices...This piece
I really wanted to ask you abot is the AUDIOPHILE 2496 24 Bit 96 kHz 4 in / 4 out PCI Digital Recording Interface with MIDI made by MIDIMAN....I know you said they have a mixed reputatin, but I was andering if you have any info on this specific piece of gear...Its price here is $179 so its really cheap...I appriciate your concern about getting the best I can, but I can't wait anymore....I'v been waiting too long!!! So if you, or anyone else have information about the AUDIOPHILE working with Logic, I'd like to know how its going!
Peace...

[Catmixer]

OK, just read a previous descuasion in this forum about the AUDIOFILE 2496...I think I got the point...Its great when it works...when does that happne? pperantly only on X-mas and Hanuca.
So has anyone else heard/used the Tascam US224, and know oprice range in the US?
Peace...

[Catmixer]

Hi rickenbacker, whats the dimensions and whight of the Tascam (approximatly)...in other words, how portable is it (if you compare it to the mbox, for example)?
Peace...

[rickenbacker]

Hello again,

According to the 224 manual, it weighs 0.85kg (1.9lbs) and its dimensions are 12"x8.3"x2.4" (30.4x21.1x6.2cm). It's almost exactly the same size as a closed iBook (12" screen model), slightly smaller, and it probably weighs slightly less than the Mbox, going by my memory of handling the Mbox. Totally portable and USB bus-powered, like the Mbox.

I think it's a great little tool. Having used it for a couple of days now, I don't want to send it back and might buy it myself. Having the control surface - even just using the "tape recorder" controls - saves so much time when playing/recording/rewinding etc in the mix. You just spend much less time carefully selecting and clicking things with the mouse.

It doesn't have phantom power, which the Mbox does, but I've already got a Joe Meek Pro Channel for my mics so this isn't such a big deal for me. It depends what equipment you've already got. The Mbox is very nice, though, and sounds great. However, the 224 seems to work in every single application I've tried it in, including OS X apps like Melodyne and Bias Peak. The control surface doesn't always work, but the recording features always do, so in that sense it's in a league of its own at the moment.

Obviously, the ideal state would be to have all these machines lined up on the desk and test them all one after the other, comparing the sonic results of each. Nice dream!