M Box Users Options

[nlowther]

Hey all you MBox users out there.
I want the to get the Mbox 'cause Pro tools is great for what I want . Only thing is Ive been toid by some people that it cant run Virtual Instruments without noticeable latency and chews up processor speed real quick when adding effects.
Tell me its not true, tell me simplicity rules and keep away from the maze that is Logic.

[arvidtp]

Unfortunately I can't tell you it's not true. Simplicity - humpf! things would be a lot Simpler with the mbox if digidesign had not tried to go-it-alone and make their own inferior drivers instead of using the awesome coreaudio architecture already in mac os x that gets realtime processing priority always. Even their coreaudio driver for other apps is a "hair-pin implementation" that makes it difficult to use with other software and break with each major new release of OS X. why? But pro tools itself is great for multitracking and sound design I think.

[Lord Pasty]

Hrmmm... I'm thinking about getting an MBox. (It would be a hella lot cheaper than going out and trying to get the 02 Rack!) What computers are you guys using the MBox with?

[nlowther]

I didnt know about the driver issues, maybe its something to do with the software war going on between Avid and Apple on the DV front. Its more than a little annoying that you have to fork out another $1000 au for the OMF import option with Pro Tools LE. Maybe Logic is the better option for composing, wih no hardware reliancy and no latency issues.

[arvidtp]

Powerbook G4 1.25GHz 15", OS 10.3(.4 now). I admit that I should get more RAM for optimal performance, but still it should be better than it is, and at least be stable and all...

The Driver issue is that Digi uses their own "Direct IO" drivers that are not part of the operating system, but are based precariously on extra kernel extensions - that is so an OS 9-like thing to do. That is why it keeps breaking when Apple updates OS X, when other software like reason, logic, etc keeps going strong. I don't think it has to do with DV, because it is more a IO thing than a file format thing. But I'm not knowledgeable in the video thing (I like and can use FCP, but couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing when I tried Avid!). And FCPro could use the Mbox for output in theory. However that brings me to another point:

Myself, and several other computer musicians I know who have been around a lot longer than I, feel that Digidesign wants to LIMIT the use of their hardware with other software - to make it as difficult as possible for you to try software other than Pro TOols and possibly realize that it is not all there is to making music on a computer, while still being able to say that they make compatible products. Why else the "single client" nature of the mbox/001/002 coreaudio drivers, when Digi as a big company is completely capable of making a good, normal, multi-client, stable coreaudio driver? Without you having to add apps to a list before using them, with some of them either not working at all or crashing 30 sec after launch because of Mbox (i.e. stable and respected software like reason)? And for goodness sakes the lowest latency on that driver is 512 samples! I can't very well use that to perform with for the instruments I build in MaxMSP! I'm really frustrated with them. Pro TOols is great software for what it is (except when it crashes) but the limitations it and its hardware dependencies impose get me really frustrated.

Sorry to have to bash Digi, but I think its a shame for those of us who want to experiment with other stuff besides what Digi wants us to use. Maybe you will have better luck with the Mbox drivers as far as stability, but I think I know how to maintain a mac, and the limitations I have stated are real.

[Lord Pasty]

This info distresses me!!! The MBox is such a price conscious option. Of course, I know that Cubase is known to lag as well when you use too many VSTi's without the proper porcoessing speed and RAM, but it's a LOT more expensive if you ad it up...

What I'm wondering is this: if you're using something lke Logic Pro (which does use the CoreAudio drivers, obviously), would you maybe have better luck... *?* (Which I now realize was already mentioned, but it's worth the rehashing).

I'm realizing that I'm actually a little green... all over again. Drat. For me, I intend to go out and buy something that can help me do something I've never be able to do before. Sequence with my Korg and have a few other instruments and effects at my disposal, plus be able to record. I'm terrified of going out and spending a whole lot of money and then not be able to do what I need to. I mean, if I go out and realize the MBox ain't what I need, I have to go out and buy new hardware in addition to software. I completely think that what Digi is doing is a little like attempted monopoly, Arvidtp. I'm wondering if it might be smarter to wait? The question I think becomes (for me, at least) do I buy the MBox and use Logic Pro later on... or go all out for Cubase right now? I think Cubase would be a mistake from what I've read about it laying low processor speed. Thoughts, all? I need it! ( Apologies for the rant! )

[macyu]

Yeah I also hear to stay away from Cubase.. I dunno but the cool thing I'd have to agree about the mbox is that the software and hardware both come with it.. cause all other packages make you get software, then hardware. The solution I'm planning to settle on right now is Logic Express (cost reasons) and a sorta nice-ish interface.. which I've yet to find that fits my bills... M-Audio stuff seems unstable, emagic ones seem stable and low latency but only unbalanced I/O, MOTU, Metric Halo pretty expensive..

good luck!

[Lord Pasty]

Exactly, macyu. It seems like it would be best to get something along the lines of the MBox and have something good to work with, and then try to taylor around it. The problem I'm still having is that if I have to go out and buy Logic Pro at some point, my costs are going to come to a point that I wonder if I shouldn't go some completely different way for recording (than ProTools).

I suppose that no matter how thin you slice it; with recording, it's live and learn!

[MrDee]

I did just that a while ago for uni... i bought a Mac and an MBox.

Now whilst it is very good for recordings and mixing, it is frustrating due to the fact that it will only let you have 1 use of the MBox at any one time (is that a limitation of the USB speed though, rather than driver issues?). If you were thinking of composing with ProTools though, FORGET IT! Go with Logic or Digital Performer. I've spent months trying to find workarounds, and ProTools is simply moody. On top of that, it may seem like a cheaper alternative, and the Pres from focusrite are indeed great, however remember that if you want SMPTE time, you need to buy an addon. If you want to buy plugins, you need to buy an USB key thing. If you want to have OMF import, that's another grand. It's rediculous. It's like a modular coffee machine. You buy the core, and then you have to buy everything else. Not value in my eyes, when all the other sequencers offer so much better value for money in the long end.

Why do all the studios use it then one might ask? It is simple to use, yes, but it's because they are used to the platform, and don't want to waste time and money moving onto another sequencer. Quite a few seem to be moving onto Logic Pro now though... Here's hoping that Apple/Emagic gives Digidesign a well needed run for their money in the years to come.

[arvidtp]

Bravo MrDee. I concur.

The single client thing is just one of Digi's artificial limitations. You could in theory use as many apps as you want at once through a USB audio interface because no matter what, Coreaudio mixes it all down to 2 channels (or however many the box wants) before sending it out.

I agree also about the composing thing. I gotta find something better. Any suggestions. I am thinking logic (express?)

If you want to use more than one app with the Mbox coreaudio driver and keep others like reason from crashing, there is a free workaround - Jack Tools for OS X. And it does a lot more than just that - you should have it regardless, if you use OS X for music, but it is annoying to have to use sometimes when you just want quick functionality.

Oh and while we are on the topic I love the Mbox "feature" of not supporting sleep. If you have even iTunes connected to the Mbox and then sleep the machine, bye bye iTunes when you wake it up. (Unexpected Quit) Thank goodness for OS X protected memory or that thing would cause me to restart 10 times a day!