Latency, Help clear the confusion Options

[DEVIOUS]

Hi everyone!

I know this topic has been allegedly done a thousand times, yet I have been scanning the pages and am still unclear on an important issue. As far I understand it, latency occurs when you are recording a new track and listening post processing through the computer. Many people have commented on how this can pose a problem, especially to USB audio interfaces. I have been told about direct monitoring- ie listening to the new track before it is processed but this has left me with some confusion.

If I buy a USB interface and record a track, then record another and use direct monitoring, I should be able to play in time yes? Does latency become more of a problem when you start laying down 20 or 30 audio tracks? I don't intend to record more than 2 simultaneously but do want to layer complex songs. Basically, I am intending to tip toe into the shallow end of computer production with a Tascam Us122 and Tracktion. However, I am starting to consider (if this will inhibit me recording more than a couple of tracks without the computer screwing around) investing in a s/h motu 428 and start with Tracktion, maybe moving to logic. I also will want to have a go with some soft synths and I know these are a potential problem for recording.

Please help us out!

D.

[kolo]

There are two kinds of latency. ONE: The track you are recording at the moment is sounding delayed because of the time it takes the computer and audio interface to take the sound you input in, turn it into digital information and then turn that back to sound so you can hear it. The US-122 will simply split up the audio signal you are putting into it and send it to your headphones as well as to the computer. Your software should sync everything up because it "knows" how long it takes to turn the sound into bits and places them in sync with the tracks already there for future playback. The number of tracks you have , 10 -20 -100, will either ALL play back or ALL will start to sputter and not sound if you have more than your computer can play back with it's processing power. It's not like tracks 1-10 will play in time and 11 on up will be struggling to keep up... But this is not latency, it's just reaching the limit of what your computer can process at once.
TWO: Latency playing soft synths or sample based computer instruments. You play a key on your midi keyboard and it takes time for the message to go into the computer, tell the computer to sound a certain sound on a soft synth. The computer actually has to create this sound at the same time as it is playing back a backing track, possibly recording audio, and playing back other synths. the faster your processor on your computer the less of a lag you'll get. On most new computers you probably won't even notice any delay. But start layering lots of these and your computer will crap out. Don't forget, your computer's processor is also drawing images on the monitor, controlling the spinning drives, keeping time, checking your email, what ever .. too.
Just do it.

[DEVIOUS]

Thanks Kolo. Nice and clearly explained. I theoretically should be able to make some decent layered music with my G4 12" Powerbook then!

[kinetic]

Do not Buy a USB sound card it is a waste of time and money. get a firewire card and it will be painless

[editbrain]

usb is not a waste of time. it is a saver of money.

i have a tascam us-122 and don't have a bit of trouble from it.

happy recording,

editbrain

[DEVIOUS]

Thanks Editbrain. I think everyone is hasty with the call for firewire. I too have been looking but trying to understand exactly why I would need it. For a good firewire it's a big jump in price.

Many people on this site seem to buy the best equipment from the outset. I understand the idea to keep things open for the future, but I can't see it taking a few months to get to grips with the whole process and make your cheap gear outdated. I think computer music can easily get lost in gear- the ideas are what make it (obviously I'm not saying anything crazy here!)- Some of the artists stretching way back could make brilliant sounding music using far inferior technology.

My plan is to keep things simple, cheap and portable. I don't want to be stuck for a pad to put my idea on. I want to use minimal effects and keep stuff raw. Maybe, and this is a big maybe, if I manage to lay down a truly amazing idea I will go into a big studio and record it properly.

Keep the ideas flowing everyone and embrace, but don't obsess about the new technology!

D.

[editbrain]

DEVIOUS,

Thank you. Just today I packed up the Powerbook, Tascam US-122 and a shure 57 for a visit to the doctor. My fiancee is pregnant and I wanted to record the first time I heard its heartbeat. The doctor agreed. Did I mention that I did not have to plug-in to an outlet. The doctor was amazed that I had this hi-tech equipment in my bag.

This really has nothing to do music making, but it has all to do with portability and simple devices that work in all types of situations. i have record two tracks at once with my Tascam into Logic Audio without having one glitch.

Tascam has been around for years. I can remember being 8-9 years old wanting a Tascam 4 track to record guitar. What I am getting to here is that these guys/gals at Tascam are music equipment legends. There pre's are good and there knowledge of how music creation has evolved is high. After all were there while it was happening. Where were the others?




happy recording,

editbrain

This post has been edited by editbrain: Tue 27 Apr 2004, 01:47

[toekneenose]

Editbrain,

Here's my 'one up.'

I remember audio before Tascam and Teac when everything was Ampex. (I'm really that old!)

Then along came Tascam boards and recorders. They revolutionized the industry, miniturizing and bringing the cost of recording way down while maintaining great quality.

So, when I decided to put my Mac system together, it was a 'no brainer' when I learned that Tascam had an audio/midi interface.

Even in the all digital age, Tascam does not disappoint.

Toekneenose

[rickenbacker]

There is nothing wrong with USB per se, but it does have strict limits. Quite simply, there is only a certain amount of data you can stuff down its pipe. FireWire allows for a considerably greater amount of simultaneous audio data to be passed back and forth.

In other words, USB is cool if you only record a small number of audio tracks. If you want to have, say, more than 16 audio tracks and Midi happening at the same time in the song, USB will have trouble dealing with all that data and you'll get dropouts and clicks as the audio data gets truncated. You shouldn't get this problem with a FireWire interface.

Sadly, some are better designed and developed than others, which is why you hear a lot of complaints about the M-Audio FW410 and none about the MOTU 828. The 828 is a fantastically solid and reliable perfomer - I've had mine switched on continuously for a year and have never had any problems. I can't say the same for the USB interface I had before that.

There is nothing more distracting and frustrating than the equipment spoiling your recording sessions. With my 828, it might as well not be there it's so invisible - it just does its thing. I bought it second-hand, too, so it wasn't even that expensive. My best studio investment, no question.

Starting out gradually and upgrading in the future is a sensible course of action, though. And I agree that Tascam are a decent brand. I tried a US-122 for a couple of weeks and I like it. If I could afford it, I'd buy one just to have on hand as a spare mobile interface.

Enjoy making your music.