Mbox Vs. Digi 002 Rack Options

[JPSpecial]

I'm wondering which audio interface would be better for my needs. I'd like to record voice and acoustic guitar using two different mics and afterward doing some harmony vocals and perhaps a second guitar track and some bass. The real problem I want to avoid is major latency. Will I have substantially less with the firewire digi 002r than with the mbox. Some users have said that the latency with mbox is not a problem while others have said it is a true annoyance. Just wondering what some of you users of either audio interface have to say. Also, how many audio inputs can the digi 002r take at a time? I know the mbox can only take two, which of course is pretty limited.

[PristineRec]

I've never used an Mbox, but I have never had latency issues with my Digi002 rack. It has 4 mic preamps and (I think) 4 more 1/4" inputs on the back panel. It can also bring in two chanels of S/PDIF (which is where my outboard tube preamp connects) and has a lightpipe input which could bring in 8 more channels optically, if you had an outboard pre with the correct output.
If you are in fact recording all of the instruments one at a time, you can caorrect for any latency afterwards by nudging the waveform of any trucks back or forward in time to sync them up at mixdown. That's one of the great things about DAWs, it's very easy to slide channels back and forth in time to correct timing, or even to create funky effects.

[Barb]

I own both the MBox and the digi002. I use the MBox in the school MIDI Lab with an iMac and the 002 in the recording studio with the Titanium notebook. I don't have latency problem with either one. I would recomend the 002 if you can afford it. The controller is WAY cool and it gives you many more possibilities than the MBox as far as numbers of tracks (8 at a time- 4 XLR & 41/4"). I wish it had 8 XLR instead so I need to go thru a mixing board or preamp for the other mics. A drag but not too bad. You may need to fiddle with the EQ to match mics but do that AFTER the recording. ProTools is non destructive so you might as well start with clean tracks. The XLRs on the 002 and the MBox are Focusrite preamps so if you get a preamp try the Focusrite. It's a good product.

If you have a PC, don't forget to check out Steinberg products. The Ardvark is a smoking interface although it doesn't have the faders and I have only heard great things about Cubase SX. Steinberg might also have a controller for Cubase but the Hui will probably work although I am not too fond of Mackie products for a pro level application.

Good luck!

[kolo]

Look, you only get latency if you are using the computer to monitor your input. Most setups, sound cards, etc (I don't know the Mbox specifically) allow you to monitor your live sources directly, mixed with the already recorded tracks(s). In other words you hear your live singing/playing before it goes "in" to the system. Pretty much virtually all recorders (soft or hardware) "line up" the tracks for you so that what you sing is synced with what you are hearing upon playback. I use cubase and turn set it up so I don't hear my performance as I do it returning back with the delay produced by the processing time of the computer. I listen to it from my mixer directly.
Mostly when you read about latency it's for when you are using the computer as a sound source, as in virtual instruments, when you depend on the computer to playback/create the actual sound, so that there is no way to hear it prior to the computer's processing lag.

But of course, as someone just wrote, the great thing is you can nudge the tracks to your hearts content. Good luck.

• latency la ten c y

[beltunabob]

Sorry, I'm an ABSOLUTE newbie. Latency means...? The tracks are out of synch? Thanks for your patience.
BobA

[kolo]

Latency as in LATE. That is You are playing or singing and the sound or midi signal goes into the computer and gets recorded, "listened to' by the computer and then the computer sends the sound back out for you to hear. It takes a few microseconds to do that and you hear the sound slightly delayed, or out of sync with the rest of the tracks playing back. With midi, you are playing a midi keyboard, say, and your fingers are pushing the keys down which sends a signal to the computer to trigger a soft synth sound (virtual instrument). It takes a fraction of a second for the computer to do that, and the sound may come out a little LATE (latency, get it?). Sequencers can adjust for this on playback, but LIVE as you record you can't help but hear the delay, which may be annoying or screw up your timing. Unless your computer/interface (mbbox etc) is doing this processing really fast. these days it's pretty fast on the newest machines. If you monitor directly you hear your voice BEFORE it gets processed. No latency. Like I said, your software should be able to place the new ttrack in the right spot when you play the recording back.
You need to get a basic book on recording terms and concepts. the stores are full of them.

good luck

[JPSpecial]

What is the difference between using the computer to monitor and direct monitoring?
I'm a bit confused by the distinction. If for example I had an mbox, how would direct monitoring be done? It may also be helpful to know I have a 1 ghz G4 Imac with 768 ram. I assume that this amount of ram would be sufficient for what I'm trying to do. Thanks for all the helpful information and advice. This is really a great place for gathering information before jumping into the game.

[beltunabob]

OK i understand Latency. What book(s) are recommended?
Thank you.

[kolo]

I don't know much about the Mbox. But direct monitoring is you hearing the audio signal going into the setup before it goes through analog to digital conversion and gets processed "into" the computer, which produces the lag time. So you hear it "live". You should check out if the mbox does this. I bet it does. I've heard good things about it.

[arvidtp]

yes, the Mbox does direct monitoring. It's hardware buffer (latency) can be set as low as 256 samples (but this really taxes your processor in Pro Tools). I usually have mine at 512 samples and this is decent for playing softsynths, though not the best.

But the problem with the Mbox is that it is USB. When running pro tools I have found that this limits my processor to about half its power. If I go above that, Pro Tools claims I have run out of CPU power, it cannot send audio to USB and playback/recording stops. This means that you are limited in effects/softsynths. Not a good thing for me, because I never want to bounce tracks to disk. I always want to be able to change stuff later because that is how I make music. I have a 1.25GHz G4 Powerbook for crying out loud - let me use it to capacity!

Also right now Mbox coreaudio drivers are miserable [for me at least] and cause most Core audio software (anything except pro tools) to crash upon opening. There is a workaround - but it is annoying. Hopefully this will be fixed with next Pro Tools release (which has been announced, but no release date mentioned). I'm not really happy with my Mbox. There always seems to be a glitch when I need it most.

I think also I'm gonna get logic express and see if that is a better software platform to compose with than Pro Tools, which I feel is best for multitracking/mastering/post production/video - because thats when I have the most fun using it. I often get frustrated trying to use it to compose (with both MIDI and audio).

1st poster: looks as if the Mbox would suit your needs, but I don't feel it is a reliable package. But there isn't really anything else in the price range from Digidesgin until 002R. Pro Tools is really great as a recording/mixing tool, but if I could buy again, I would skip Pro Tools and go with a portable FIREWIRE interface and some other sequencer/DAW that is more flexible and less monopolistic. That's my two cents.

Best of luck.

-Arvid

This post has been edited by arvidtp: Sat 17 Apr 2004, 16:59