Loss Of Faith, tepid digital waters Options

[jesse]

I am feeling rather defeated. last year i purchased an imac 800mgz, 256, and I have yet to match the stability of my fostex fourtrack. the consept of latency is entirely new to me. So I ask myself, and all of you, why would anyone purchase a 2500$ (canadian) machine then purchase 150 dollars worth of software (tracktion) and another 250 on a decent usb interface. currently i am using imic (60$) and i hate it. Back in the good old days, when a fourtrack cost 300 bucks (1994) there was no such animal as "latency". why then ten years and 3000 dollars later do i find myself in a less productive and more expencive situation? And all for a marginal increase in sound quality. My question is this: how much more do I have to spend to be able to find a program and input/output device that is comperable to the fostex cassette machine i had (still do) ten years ago? Have I gone through all this just eliminate the dreaded tape hiss?! Does anyone else feel like they have been hoodwinked by the glitz and gloss of a sleaker digital future?
I am only twenty-seven and already the future looks dimmer than the past.
...triing hard not to become a luddite...

[tunetwister]

First thing the i mac is a bit under powered, the faster your computer the less latency. Next there will all ways be latency. You can lower your buffer settings to reduce latency but then you run the risk of clipping your prossesor. I hate latency so I send out from my hardware mixer to the head phone amps. I will put on a bit of reverb with a hardware reverb for the headphones but record a different mix out of the board dry.
Why digitail you ask, becouse I can do things that I never could in anolog. It is clean and all edits stay first generation. It is easyaly incorperated with my video system. ect. ect.

[sethjacquay]

Don't lose faith?

I am using an iMac 15" Superdrive 800Mhz G4 with 512 RAM,
and a 120 GB external FW HD. I will say that while the iMac
is relatively underpowered, it has exceeded my expectations
as far as capability, compatibilty, and latency go.

The iMic was a pretty horrendous experience for me and
forced me to upgrade to the Firewire 410. I swore
off USB audio devices because of the iMic and decided
only to look at Firewire options.

My new setup cost me about $700:
1. M-Audio Firewire 410 ($400)
2. Berhinger B-1 Condenser Mic ($100)
3. Ableton Live Software ($200)

This, of course, excludes the cost of the computer
and the external harddrive, which I already owned.

The latency, of the new setup, is pretty
low even using advanced reverb plug-ins
that add 40% to 60% processor load.
And you can of course monitor using the
hardware instead of the Software Returns.
The hardware monitoring is no latency and
is a pretty nice feature.

It seems like too much to pay, but the
quality of my recordings has improved
dramatically. And I don't regret the
upgrade at all.

Soooo, to directly respond to your post.
I would never again use tape,
my personal opinion, to record music.

What are you are paying all that money for
is a much higher quality recording that won't
fade, decompose, stretch, distort, get slobered
on by your dog, or stolen and then trashed by
your ex-girlfriend, unless you want the music
be effected like that.

You can apply tons of effects and even master
the audio yourself. And then undo it all if you
messed up.

I know, you think "that's great, but $3000 is
still a lot of money."

Sure it is, but the DAW has ushered in
a new era where $3000 gives you more
recording and editing power than anytime
in history at that price.

Before you had to be a professional with lots of
money, effects processors, and a ton of other
sh*t.

Now you need fewer pieces of total hardware.
You have easier tools to learn and use.
And it all costs far less.

But I guess, if the ONLY reason you
purchased an iMac was to replace your old four
track, then bought a cheap DAW, and a cheap
input device, I can understand why you might
be a little disappointed.

You should've just used Garageband and the
pinhole on your iMac's Monitor.

[jesse]

the thrust of my argument is this; the very essence of recording music, the fundamental princaple of the modern recording proscess from les paul on, has been the consept of multitracking. If i am going to play a double lead or harmanize a vocal part i expect that the biggest problem should be the quality of proformance, and not whether the two parts synch up after the fact. All the other doodads aside (as great as they are) why does it cost a fortune just hook up good mic and listen to it in headphones while you play, or better yet listen to a backing track while you record a second, third, fourth track. I took that to be a given...no?

[sethjacquay]

Garageband will let you do that?
Right?

How much do you think it should cost?
How much did it cost les paul?
It used to cost you $300 on a 4 track, but
the quality sucked and was it easy to mix
and edit? Also are you limited to the number
of tracks you can record?

I after reading some mastering literature
syncing audio in the studio has not always been
perfect because adding processes like reverb,
EQ, and compression can effect the timing.

I agree with you to some extent, syncing shouldn't be
a problem, but it is. How can we correct it?
Wait for more powerful processors to become cheaper?
If you don't care about the quality of the recording
go back to tape!

All jabbing aside, syncing up
your tracks has become a lot easier lately.
Just by nudging the track a 1/32 or 1/16 to the
right or left usually does the trick.
If you have hardware monitoring you can record
properly in time with the software returns and
then slightly adjust the tracks afterwards.

[DEVIOUS]

I am looking into the digital 8 track world and wanting to add midi too. Just as a thought, how does a hardware digital 8 track fare with the latency problem. I just had the idea of buying a piece of kit like the Zoom MRS802BCD (http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMMRS802CD) and having a neat complete 'idea pad' and hoping that with the provided usb connection these ideas could be developed and moved around in a sequencer on my mac. Would this work? Anybody know?

I understand the frustration of this digital stuff- I mean, the less complications, the more time that can be spent on the ideas. After all, this is what it's all about isn't it?

D.

[terrywil]

Software, hardware, learning curves.... One only has to read the many comments on this forum to see that what we're dealing with is challenging to say the least. How do you plug this in to make that work for such and so. I know from my own experience that learning Logic, getting it all running, took a long time. It's often frustrating. Then, you have the built-in problem of upgrades - of the computers, the software, the peripherals. And more and more money. Some lament - "Gimme a good ol' acoustic guitar" - and I can see their point. Some even claim that computer music is not really music at all. It's sampled and contrived and artificial. A drum loop is not a real musician.

So, do we all feel guilty? Using those musicians that never get tired? Do we stop plunking down our cash for those new apps? For that extra 1 gig of RAM? For the program that will do something never heard before? Are we going to give it up?

Of course not! This thing we're into has a beautiful and intense excitement, a travelling into truly new musical territory. A lot of people sense this and they get involved in it. It's my feeling that this new musical territory is just the beginning of fabulous things to come. People are creating incredible new music - people are excited - people are involved in something that doesn't happen very often - a real artistic revolution.

I got Garritan Personal Orchestra. It has samples of every instrument in the symphony orchestra. You can lay one or a bunch of these instruments out on your keyboard using the full version of Kontakt. Now... just sit back for a second and think about that. This is really something.

I truly sympathize with Jesse who initiated this thread. You gotta hang in there. Check the settings, try to be patient when you want to trash it all.