Keyboard For Soundtrack / Gargageband?, Best one for novice? Options

[edge]

I've been using Soundtrack for some time, will probably add GarageBand to the mix, and I want to expand the possibilities with an inexpensive ($200 or less) keyboard. Apple recommends two keyboards on the GarageBand page, so I'm currently looking in that direction, but I don't know if these or others are best for me.

They are:

1) M-Audio Keystation 49e USB Midi Keyboard ($79)
2) Edirol PCR-30 MIDI Keyboard Controller ($169)

About them:

- One has 49 keys while the other has 32 (does that matter to me?)
- One is titled a 'controller' while the other is not (whatever that means)
- One has more nobs and buttons than the other (but maybe these are not necessary and effects can be handled via software...?)

About me:

- I don't necessarily need/want to learn to play piano, just want to be able to create new melodies and loops.
- I played drums for six years so I have rhythm.
- I'm a music nut and know what sounds good.

Any recommendations? It's more a hobby, but partially for business.

Thanks ahead of time!

[zelen0]

controller means it just sends MIDI data, it has no sounds of it's own. this is cheaper and better, as long as you don't hope to use it without the midi host (computer). So go with controller when possible in your case.

I've played piano for roughly 12 years. I can tell you one thing, and that is if at all possible, get "weighted" keys. Keys on a piano that have some weight will allow you to feel the notes, allowing your brain to receive tactile feedback.

This is different from "velocity", which records how hard you hit each note. Some keyboards have velocity without weighted keys. But keep in mind that if the keys have no weight, you will have a difficult time telling how hard you hit each key.

In the end this may not matter if you're just playing around. But at least ensure your keyboard HAS velocity.

If you choose to go with weighted, remember that it will in almost all cases have velocity.

So if you can, get controller, weighted with velocity/sensitivity.

The number of keys depends on what you want to play. If it's just chords, and some leads, 32 keys is plenty. If you want to play full cadencas, you'll need more than 70 keys.

I have a Yamaha P-80, it's a piano replacement for me, but overkill for simple work.

[Jaysee]

Check out the latest Novation ReMote 25 audio Xtreme. It's USB powered, portable, semi weighted, has aftertouch, a joysick, touchpad and a zillion other great features, not least of which is that it functions as a midi/ audio interface.. it's available for PC now, but mac drivers aren't out until summer, so it could be worth hanging on for a few months. it's bundled with a lot of software too!
I'm not sure about the cost but I really want one

[dixiechicken]

I'd just like to add, that if you got the money and space for it, try to get a at least a 61-note keyboard. (I dont know if theres one that fits your budget)

Shorter keyboards usually make it harder to play music the way it is written.
You'll run into situations where you have to, sometimes quite radically,
shift your hand positions and fingerings to play a music piece.

Then again it depends on what you what to do - and how you're gonna use your keyboard.

People who started out on keyboards by playing the piano/taking piano lessons, usually prefer
keyboards with "weighted action". Unfortunately these keyboards are usually a bit more expensive.

Cheers: Dixiechicken

[edge]

First, please excuse my mispell - Gargageband - doh!

Second, thanks for the feedback so far. I've learned a bit more about MIDI controllers, velocity, octaves, etc.

My budget is under $200 and really I just want something to create some loops and maybe record a few leads. I don't anticipate playing any full songs and I'll most likely be messing around with simple chords and riffs anyhow. I'm leaning towards something small and portable at the moment. Has anyone used the following with Soundtrack, GarageBand or otherwise:

MAudio Oxygen 8 25-Key USB MIDI Keyboard Controller ($140)

I think it may meet my immediate needs and then, who knows, maybe I jump to a Grand

[rickenbacker]

The Oxygen 8 is cool. There are also others from companies like Edirol that do exactly the same thing - some even have audio onboard, too, like the Ozone or the PCR-1. I have an Oxy 8 and it's OK. The drivers need to be reinstalled periodically for some reason, but otherwise it's fine. Fine for two-finger chords and triggering loops, anyway, which is what you seem to want to do. Too short for two-handed playing, though - I use an old Roland Midi keyboard for that. Both now run through an Emagic MT4 - that way I don't have to bother about updating drivers, as I just plug both keyboards into the one Midi interface.

[sethjacquay]

edge,

i don't know how much you know about soundtrack 1.2, but
it is not a midi sequencer, i just has a midi sync capability which
has to do with the timing of your audio, nothing to do with actually
playing notes or synth/software instruments.

Basically you won't be able to play a midi controller in Soundtrack,
because Soundtrack won't write down any of notes and does not
contain any synths. I am not sure if there are AUs (Audio Units) that would
allow you to do this though, although none are included with the package.

So with that said, Garageband does take midi input and turn it into
actual sound, only thing is most of the synth instruments are...
well...weak. I mean if you truly know what good music sounds like, you
will think that the software instruments in Garageband are cheesy, but there
are a few exceptions.

So purchasing a $140 keyboard just to play with Garageband doesn't make a
ton of sense, especially if it only has 25 keys and a ton of midi controls which
would be a waste in Garageband as they don't do anything (someone can prove me
wrong here I haven't really tried it.)

What I suggest, since you have a background as drummer and are good at
spotting quality music is for you buy the Oxygen8 and a copy of Reason 2.5 ($360).
Reason is my favorite app to play with and you will not be disappointed.

P.S. - I do use Soundtrack and Garageband regularly but they are limited compared
to more professional offerings and neither support Rewire and I am still deciding which
of those Rewire Support Apps to purchase. (Live or Logic Express). Soundtrack is a great
app for adding music mixes to videos it is just kind of limited as a Studio Production tool. Garageband is an excellent bargain of a beginner music tool. It really has some great
features for the price and it is a lot of fun.

That is my advice take or leave!

[edge]

Yea... I know Soundtrack doesn't provide any MIDI control and I'm just now figuring out what GarageBand has to offer. I'm anticipating/guessing/hoping Apple integrates software intruments into the next version of Soundtrack. Meanwhile, I was thinking of using a keyboard for creating loops in GarageBand then saving as Apple Loops for use in Soundtrack. I've also looked into Reason, but it seems so complicated compared to the Apple software.

No matter what software I end up using most, a simple keyboard will come in handy for creating unique loops and leads. I also use Peak, so I can slice and dice sounds for use elsewhere.

What do you think? Is Reason worth the $$ and learning curve? Will I be able to get very far with just GB, ST and Peak? Should I go with a larger keyboard? With all this new software and tons of sounds to manipulate, I feel like a chef in a kitchen.

[sethjacquay]

edge, Reason is somewhat complicated, but learning it has lots of rewards.

The learning curve is really no different that learning Photoshop or Final Cut
(actually it is a lot easier than Final Cut). Reason is pretty difficult to use without
a midi controller, not impossible, but it just limits your ability to create music
immediately. So get a keyboard / midi controller and then download the Reason
demo. It doesn't let you save, but you can get a feel for it and if you have any
questions you can always ask me or read the documentation (which is relatively
straight forward)

If I was only allowed to have two programs on my computer, I would choose:
1 - Reason 2.5
2 - Photoshop 7 or 8

Reason may seem a little daunting, but it really is a fun piece of software.
I don't really sequence from a logical prespective, I just record whatever comes
out and then rework it after. Reason works well for that, because it tells you all
the notes you've played (like Garageband), but I have a friend who uses Reason
all the time and he basically writes every note in with the pencil tool which take much
longer, but I guess his brain works that way and Reason allows him to create some
wonderful mixes and music. So it is a very adaptable tool to whatever style you want to
make music in. The only thing Reason doesn't do, is live audio in. But that is why
they made Rewire.

So get a midi controller and play with the Reason Demo, personally I feel that it is
worth the cost and the learning curve, but you need to make that decision on your own.

This post has been edited by sethjacquay: Tue 10 Feb 2004, 15:39

[edge]

Thanks to all for the advice above.

I picked up an M-Audio Oxygen 8 and shortly after... Reason. The keyboard came with a demo, but after a few short hours of fooling with it, I had to go for the full version. It's wicked and I now see the advantages over Soundtrack and GarageBand. I'm sure I'll still utilize Soundtrack quite a bit, but I'll spend most my leisure time with Reason. No sense in owning this app without a keyboard either.

We'll see if I outgrow the 32-key keyboard, but for now it's more than enough.