Imac Or Ibook For Music? Options

So, I'm a pc-man, but SO tired for PCs... I think I'm not the only one... So I've been thinking about a mac. I make music with computer, so I need some power, but also stability (which PCs don't seem to offer...). I can't afford those G5s or even G4 (the one which look like computer, not iMac, eMac, or laptop...). PowerBook is too expensive too. So my choices are iBook and iMac. I thought about the 800Mhz G4 (12") iBook, or maybe the 933Mhz G4 one. How big is the difference in speed of those two iBooks? I would probably take that 640mb memory (which is the maximum) for those. So is the 933Mhz one worth the extra 200-300€ (or something like that in $s). And then the other one choice is the iMac (15") There's 1Ghz G4 processor in that and the maximum ammout of memory is 1Gb, which is more than in iBooks. Also, the memory seems to be a bit faster in iMac, because it's DDR 333Mhz, while it's DDR 266Mhz in iBooks. That iMac would cost about 1600€ (again, something like that in dollars), whit 1Gb memory (if I won't buy that memory from apple, cause they seem to have quite expensive memories). So, which one would be the best choise (price/quality ratio)? And can you say, what kind of pc do those macs match, (I know that the Mhz-ammount is not compareable). If you bother answer, I would really appreciate that, cause I really don't know anything about macs, and I don't believe in salesmans speaks.

[Metro SE]

This is not a complete answer but assuming you want reliability you will need to go with Mac OS X.

Since this is the case you will probably want a desktop model (not an ibook) simply because of hard-drive performance. The drives in the iBooks are very slow (4500 I think) and this will limit your ability to record/playback digitial audio on it. Of course you could always upgrade to a high-speed drive (7200 RPM) at added expense.

[xingu]

I've been perfectly happy with my 15" iMac G4 700 (only 384 RAM). Then again, I mostly record straight audio (up to 12 tracks) and rarely use virtual instruments, so I have pretty minimal requirements. Regardless of your setup, an external firewire drive is recommended to keep your recorded audio files separate from the OS/programs - this should run around $200/euro.

Yea, I forgot to say in here, but yes, I will buy an external hard-drive for audio. That iBook hard-drive, is it too slow for OS and programs too? And also I will buy exteral sound'card', probably M-Audio Audiophile USB (or something like that).

This post has been edited by petronome: Thu 1 Jan 2004, 11:54

So, anyone know what kind of pc (Mhz, RAM etc...) does, for exapmle that 800Mhz ibook (with 640mb memory) match? I would like to get some kind of knowledge about macs power. I really don't know how to compare them with PCs. And what do you think, is that 640mb memory too little? Or is there some way to get more memory in iBook, even if they say in apple-site that 640 is maximum? And is there difference in speed between iMac (1Ghz, 512mb or 1Gb memory) and iBook (933Mhz, 640mb memory)? And how big is the difference between iBook 800MHz and iBook 933Mhz? If I buy an iBook, should I buy 800Mhz or 933Mhz version? I really don't have too much money.

This post has been edited by petronome: Thu 1 Jan 2004, 11:54

[dixiechicken]

Petronome!

Comparing PC:s to Macs are a pretty tricky thing to do.
Due to the differences in the hardware and software.

My iMac G4-800MHz, with Panther OS-X 10.3.2, 1Gb ram & 120 GB Maxtor 7200
(slower systembuss and no L3-cache)

Feels on par with my brandnew Compaq NX7000 notebook,
1500MHz Centrino, 512Mb ram & 60 GB 7200 rpm nonstandard disk.
(fast frontside bus)

Thats most of the time for ordinary applications. (Ms office and the like)

While my iMac chugs along steadily without any great variations in speed & behaviour
my Compaq notebook shows great variations at times for no obvious reasons.

Thats mostly due I suspect to the piss-poor implementation of multitasking in WinXP-prof.
( all off a sudden opening the Controlpanel can take a minute )

The big advantage to Max OS-X is stability, security, almost no viruses,
( on my iMac at home I dont even use any anti-virus software at present - generally a very bad practise -
try that on a win xp pc and se what happens ) multitasking and memorymangement.

However the OS-X is a pretty resource hungry os, the more memory the better. Can you install/afford at least 1GB ram?
Do it!

Get the fastest Mac you can afford.
( although Panther is much faster than earlier OS X versions -- speed is not a very strong point either ).
( in comparison with other *nix systems )

One more thing to bear in mind: generally speaking due to the vertical integration in a Mac ( Apple designs both the hardware & the os & other software ) you will experience "very little hassle" installing software and hardware. True plug & play was a fact on the Mac long before (years) - Mr gates coined the phrase.

At one time I spent 14 days trying to install/connect an UMAX 630 SCSI-scanner to an PC Win NT-4 w. sp3.
( getting correct scsi-card drivers, gathering info on how to do it )
Doing the same on my old Mac PPC 6100 took me 15 minutes. Using inbuilt sccsi-port and the UMAX drivers written for
NOT the PPC-processor but the older 68K (68030/40) cpu:s.

Cheers: Good luck and welcome to Mac-Heaven
Dixiechicken

Thanks Dixie!

I guess I go to iMac. That's the most powerful machine I can afford. The 1Ghz model. Probably I can get 1Gb memory, at least I think so. Or, maybe I check the PowerMac G4, because, without monitor it would cost something like 1600€ (~2000 US$). iMac would cost about 1500-1600€, so there's not so big difference. Of course, I would have to buy a monitor with the PowerMac. So, do 'normal' (PC-) monitors work with (Power)Mac? And do I need some kind of plug to get the PC-monitor plugged?

Now I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a mac, my PC really annoys me... But, I won't have the money until summer (2004), so I have to wait about ½ a year. Do you think there will be some new models then? Or will those iMacs and PowerMacs (G4) be 'old rubbish' then? ARGHHH!! I WANT MY MAC NOW!!! Can't stand this PC!

[dixiechicken]

Yes ordinary PC-monitors usually work just fine with a Mac:s these days.
You may need an adapter on some models.

At work I have an old G4-400MHz ( with a ATI Radeon 8500 in the agp-slot )

My monitor is a LG L1811s 18" flat TFT-display. The standard VGA-cable fits right in, no adapter needed in my case, as an example.

Cheers Dixiechicken

[Fields]

"At work I have an old G4-400MHz"

so sad to see this in writing, I still have my "old G4" powerbook, been saving up though for something like an ibook but with a the 7200rpm hardrive and maxed-out ram. I'll also have to get an external drive...

oh I miss the days when everyone was so amazed with the g4pb's.....I still love mine though,....sniff....sniff....

-Fields

[boze]

petronome-
i don't think the decision to get an iMac over an iBook is as clearcut as Metro suggests.

it's embarrassing that folks would be saying, 'you'll want to go with OSX'- embarrassing to apple i mean. do you know that OSX has been out for three years now?! it makes me want to scream thinking that there are old school ppl on this board who think it's even an option to expect a new computer buyer to use an os that was replaced three years ago- and lets not mince words, i know it hasn't been ready all this time but that's just _another aggravation that mac ppl are all to ready to play down imo.

about your specific situation: you may as well disregard everything in this thread if you're not buying for 1/2 a year. right now i think the G4 iBooks are probably the best value in the mac computer line, but that could change.

did somebody actually use installation of a scsi card as evidence that macs were easier to configure? i think that's insane. first of all, neither of the machines petronome is considering even have pci slots and secondly i'd be willing to bet that the likelihood of any new mac or pc person using scsi for audio is about nil. to suggest that macs have an advantage in plug-and-play is pure conjecture and mostly i think it's just folks parroting apples marketing campaign from four years ago. for every story about plugging something in on a pc that causes trouble there are other stories about mac peripheral problems. anybody with a usb printer who used osx in it's first two years knows this. i've plugged apple mice and kbds into my vaio laptop and had them pop up little 'installed and ready to use' windows in xp without doing anything. i still don't have stable drivers for my logitech mouse in panther and my canon photoprinter isn't showing up again after moving from 10.3.1 to 10.3.2. and lets not forget that there are many many more hw and sw offerings available for windows, so it's only natural that more of them will have problems even if it's only the same percentage. and you could easily argue that the hassles with installing peripherals is offset by the fact that mac peripherals all cost more as well.

finally, it must be said that apple computers other than the dual processor G5 desktops are slower than their pc counterparts- meaning that whatever price you're looking at you can get a faster computer that is of comparable build quality in the pc world. for a laptop i'd suggest a Toshiba Satelite notebook as the computer to compare, and for the iMac i'd suggest looking at the world of shuttle PCs with an LCD monitor. admittedly, OSX is a nicer os in a lot of ways than XP Pro, but at least some of this advantage is offset by the fact that the G4 is a slow, under-powered processor by modern standards. you can get a 15" 2.4ghz Pentium 4 M for the cost of an 800mhz 12" ibook G4. folks here love macs, but they're going to have to talk about something other than performance (number of audio tracks, number of plugins, number of virtual instruments, number of software products even..) to tell you that the iBook is a better value, because a toshiba laptop like the one i describe will beat the pants off that iBook at _everything.

oh, and one more thing- that idea that a laptop hd can't run osx or do enough tracks of audio is kinda specious as well. it's the processor that's the bottleneck with the G4 comps, you can still playback maybe 16 tracks of audio on a laptop hd and the incredible values available in fw/usb2 discs make this even a weaker point. certainly not reason alone to choose an iMac. if they were both G5s all this would be different, but that's not the case.. maybe in sixth months when petronome is ready to buy...

good luck p

This post has been edited by boze: Thu 8 Jan 2004, 16:19