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Posted by: pixelboy Mon 16 May 2005, 20:52

Hi there
I´m creating dance music basically on my PB G4 with Logic 7, Live and Soft synths.
I´m locking for a decent valve front end that allows me to do preety much the works, guitar, mic, warming up signal to connect to my emi since I feel as tha need for some unstable analog harmonics to be added to my signal.

The thing is that I cant find a decently priced valve preamp, I am thinking of TLA as friends tell me its good, the thing is that most of them have also compresser and eq, and probably I wont be using it (I preffer plug-ins).
So basically I want a good sinal warmer (pardon for the english) that allows me to add that extra something valve thing until overdrive

Any good sugestions?
Thanks
WWW.PIXEL82.COM[FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial]

Posted by: dixiechicken Sat 21 May 2005, 16:10

It seems to me if you will use such a gadget for both guitar and mic-vocals.
Then you would definitely need to have a good EQ as well.
Either separately or built in to the preamp.

Reason for this - is that guitar amps - are NOT hifi by
any stretch of the imagination.
Most good/popular valve guitar amplfiers have a very colored sonic quality.
This coloring is INDEED what most guitarist want & prefer. (me included)

To use the valve pre amp for mic vocals you probably want a more natural
sonic quality, maybe tweak it a bit to suit the actual voice you recorded.

Cheers: Dixiechicken

Posted by: pixelboy Sat 21 May 2005, 18:34

Hey There

Thats the things I´m going for warming up sgnals, either from the mac or guitars and vocal (and whatever really)
I´ve been thinking of getting a tla Ivory 5060, It has presets wich makes it quicker for a quick recording, has some eq, compressor and valves.
It seems a versatily all in one channelstrip and aparently can warm up the signal in an analog valve way, It also has the option of a digital out wich is quite nice to plug into my emagic emi 6|2 using the digital converters of better quality (I imagine).
What do u think of this option (Its like the top I can spend and I´m really stretching my budget)

Thanks

Posted by: arnolfo Sat 21 May 2005, 20:18

Here's a nice alternative: http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://presonus.com/bluetubedp.html
Although, you can't go wrong with a TLAudio.
I own a Fatman 1 and am very happy with it; unfortunately, both Fatman 1 and 2 have been discontinued.
Check out the Focusrite Voicemaster Pro, it has tube emulation.
And for a lot less money, you have the Behringer ones (with real tubes in them).

Hope this helps

Posted by: pixelboy Sun 22 May 2005, 18:50

Hey there thank you for your answers.
I´ve seen the presonos blue tube an it seems quite nice.
Regarding the behringer Id already seen it before but read some bad review about it, and some friends that own behringer matterial say its basically crap although I have some other completely happy with their mixer.
Wich of these options (tla 5060, blue tube or behringer) u find the best
Thanks a lot for the help

Cheers

WWW.PIXEL82.COM

Posted by: arnolfo Sun 22 May 2005, 21:55

Check these reviews out: http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep04/articles/ivory2.htm and http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://presonus.com/BTDP-RES05.html

If you can afford something better, then don't go for the Behringers.

Posted by: flemming Sun 31 Jul 2005, 08:26

The Ivories from TL Audio are actually quite good. I know several pro studios who use them for vocals and the like. Don't go for Behringers, it's bad karma and you WILL go to studio hell when you die! :-)

Seriously, though: The notion that you'll get warmth from using tube based gear is a lie. Don't believe the hype. There's no technical reason that a tube in the signal line makes your audio sound any warmer or fatter or bigger or sunnier or whatever. In fact, often tube gear have a tendency to sound a bit more nasal than solid state based gear. EQ A neumann U47 mic: It's NOT the most transparent and warm and lovely mic you'll ever come across. In fact it's quite hard sounding, compared to something like a U47FET. Same goes for mic pre's. When people talk about a warm analog sound, mostly they actually mean the sound of Neve preamps. And those are solid state., not tube. Myself, I've got a nice selection of tube and solid state gear here (tla desks and pres, fairchild and altec on the tube side, ssl, neve, focusrite isa, neumann, telefunken, siemens on the solid state side), and I by FAR prefer the sound of solid state, exactly because good quality non tube gear has a tendency to sound fatter and warmer than similar qualite tube gear.

Also, consider that making tube gear is more expensive than making non tube gear. So for your 500 quid of preamp, you prolly get more for your money if you go for non tube. But again, the TLA ivory series are kinda nice. Much more interesting than something like the rather poor sounding focusrite platinum series.

If in any way possible, try one out in your own studio. That's where it really matters. What sort of mics are you gonna be using?

Posted by: Jsegura Sun 31 Jul 2005, 15:30

Avalon 737 is really good. By its price, nothing approaches.

Posted by: flemming Sun 31 Jul 2005, 15:34

The Avalon IS really good, I agree. I find its EQ a bit, err, weird sounding, but the pre is NICE! For an all purpose mic pre with a more neutral sounding EQ I think I prefer the ISA220 or ISA430 from Focusrite (somewhat cheaper and somewhat more expensive than the Avalon). But given our friend's price range, these are all out of reach. Unfortunately.


Nothing beats a good pre! :-)

Posted by: OneDerBoy Mon 1 Aug 2005, 21:03

Just to be clear, tube warmth is NOT a myth; the issue is more complicated than technical specs can illustrate. This may not be something everyone can hear right away, but if you are at all sensitive to subtlety you will hear the difference, which, once recognized, is huge. Flemming's views seem at first glance to be a bit narrow on what is a very broad and facinating topic, and you shouldn't quickly dissmiss something that could help you someday.

There's nothing wrong with solid state gear when price is an issue, but when you establish yourself and money is more available, don't avoid tubes. Even though a qualitative comparison will invariably degenerate into opposing opinions and tastes, try to think of it as another colour on your palate; if someone says you don't need to paint with blue, in a sense they're right, you don't NEED to. But why limit yourself?

To get a better, more balanced view you all should read these: http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.ccdemo.info/SportsAndHobbies/TubeElectronics/TubeElectronics.html
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.decware.com/paper07.htm

Good luck. Just remeber to stay open to both as much as possible; every peice of gear can be great if you know how to use it.

Posted by: flemming Mon 1 Aug 2005, 21:23

I never said anything about avoiding tubes at all. In fact, I said I've got tube gear myself – tla desk, neumann v72 modules, altec and fairchild preamps, all of which would fall into the money is more available-category, I take it? My favourite mic is a tube mic (AKG C12a). I'm not anti-tubes at all. What I DID say was don't believe the hype that a tube in the circuit automatically adds warmth or makes for a better sound. It's bollocks, as more or less all pro engineers will tell you. Tubes tend to roll off the highs and lows, freq wise, and there's a certain 'compression'-like character in the dynamic realm as well. This doesn't really qualify as warmth-inducers. If you want that sort of sound, go for it, but it is not a warm sound in itself.

Let me paraphraze you and say: There's nothing wrong with neither tube nor solid state gear, when money ISN'T an issue. But if you're craving for a warm 'analog' sound, chances are you're actually thinking of a Neve or early (SL4000e and earlier) SSL sound. Pricey stuff in itself, but not tubey. And when money IS an issue (as is the case here), it's worth remembering that tube based designs basically are more expensive to make, so if you're on a budget, you'll get less bang for your buck by going the tube route. I personally think it's kinda sad to see people spending their hard earned cash on less good sounding gear, just because they think it'll sound better (warmer) because there's a tube in it. That's all I'm saying. :-)

Posted by: OneDerBoy Mon 1 Aug 2005, 21:32

All right then. You mean to people away from silly products like that 'trans-tube' amp that came out awhile back, right? I can see where you're coming from there. That thing was atrociously over priced for having ONE tube stuck in a beginner trans amp.

I guess I'm clear on what you mean now. No bad blood I hope.

Those interested should still read those articles linked. They're very interesting.

Cheers

Posted by: flemming Tue 2 Aug 2005, 00:58

Well, basically just any piece of shit gear that claims to be great and warm and lovely just because they put a cheap tube in it. I don't know how many times I've had newbies come to me and proclaim that they've found the most fantastic new piece of gear for no money at all and then add, knowingly, "AND it's tube-based!". As if it matters! It's STILL shit! :-D

Posted by: pixelboy Wed 10 Aug 2005, 15:02

Hy guys sorry I havent replyed sooner but have been away touring for quite a while.
The issue regarding tubes and non tubes is one of those I believe will never die.
I will actually be using a rode nti1 and a shure and my gibson les paul and soft synths which maybe will pass trhough the preamp if i find it improves the sound.
One thing I am certain is that analog is different than digital, specially in what I do (electro/techno...) I tend to like to be able to overdrive everything and although psp vintage warmer and amplitube and the likes and fantastic sometimes I love the simple analog gain button as well as sound.
One of the main things I´m thinking on getting a tla is because it has a digital out and so that way I can bypass the crappy a/d converters on my emi 6|2 wich I find no reason to replace since I´m preetry much a mobile musician.
The avalon option seems fabulous from what I´ve heard but its too overpriced for me and so far my work does no justify it.
So in summing I am locking for a good input for my computer from my external sources and pure sound is not exactly what i´m locking for but I has to have some kind of qualçity of course.
I feel that each time more is not necessarily what you use that defines your sound but how u use it, and I´vé managed to get some decent recording with the onboard preamps on my mackie mixer wich I am going to sell soon.
ButI am defently wayting forward for the next paycheck to be spent partially on a tla.
Thank you all very much for your precious advises.

Posted by: makaala Sun 10 Sep 2006, 15:32

Can any one comment on the Studio Projects VTB-1? Seems it is the best unit for under $500 and it is currently priced about $150. Need it for a female voice using a Rode NT1. Also, for post, I am thinking of the liquid mix, so the cleanest recorded signal I can get from her (we operate in different countries), the better so I can tweak it with the compressors and eq in the liquid mix.
thanks