Protools--vs--????, lost in the digi jungle----HELP!! Options

i am starting from the ground up with a home studio ....i definitly want a mac i have my own website and as well as being a musician/composer...im also an artist

what i need to know is basicaly this;;

what is the best and most cost efficant way to build a home studio that will be album quality and provide me with the warmth i enjoyed with 24 track 2'' tape --is this possible on a budget of a few grand or am i fooling myself??--------is protools the right way to go and what kind of mac is best 4 what im doing-----HELP PLEASE---

[Mr.T]

You're fooling yourself indeed... Sorry but you won't be able to achieve an album with a DIGI001 costing about 1000$ while expecting the quality of a 2 inches tapes recorder that cost many many thousands dollars. Some guys will claim they can do that but they're just crooks in my opinion. The converters of the DIGI001 (or the MBox) are just not good enough. So, sure you can buy external converters but they will cost big money and still won't get nowhere near the quality of a 24 tracks Studer. The only DIGI's products that will provide an "album quality" would be the TDM or HD systems which cost big bucks. And still, some engineers will tell you that the quality is lower than real tape (but that's another more subjective subject...).

[damann]

in this game you're as good as your expertise!
you can currently buy a 24 track tape machine for under £2000, the hiss comes free!
i'm reminded of a long standing computer term..."garbage in, garbage out".
ALL records end up in a computer these days, if you're recording guitars, drums etc
either record them to tape or make sure you have REALLY good mic pre's to record them straight
to digital.

if you're making music with synths and samplers you don't have to worry about any of this.
your music will only ever sound as good as your'e capable of making it sound unless you employ
a properly trained engineer.
i'm currently producing a rock band and record them to 2" tape then transfer the audio into logic to mix. the sound is as good as anything else you've heard.

[Eric Seaberg]

I have been a Sonic Solutions user for the past 5 years and love what it does for editing, but it's NOT a multi-track system like PT or even Digital Performer. If you only want to spend a couple of thoushand, pickup an MOTU 896 (assuming you've got a Firewire capable Mac) and a copy of DP. With the extra $500 buy some good plug-ins and go to work. Rumor has it the newest version of DP will be able to talk to the new 192K Digidesign hardware, so there's ALWAYS going to be other ways to go.

My biggest dislike with PT is that you'll always be locked into using Digidesign's hardware.

[damann]

my biggest dislike of digidesign is the fact that they've systematically
RAPED my bank account whilst carefully avoiding all apple and pc native developements/developers that provide the end user with more inspiring code than their own!
if you're a creative "type" digi gear is the ultimate "pipe and slippers",
if you're an "engineering" type, you'll find them "quite comfortable".
your central issue is actually a case of what you put into the mac, not what the mac does to it!

good mic's, mic/pre's and compressors to record a live source into a computer are just the beginning if you're recording live instruments.
but it's the same with analogue really.
it's al in the mind...

[Mr.T]

if you're a creative "type" digi gear is the ultimate "pipe and slippers",
if you're an "engineering" type, you'll find them "quite comfortable".

You can also be of the creative type but still need to work and export your work quickly&easily to bigger studios, which, at least in here (France), are still more equiped with PT than any other softs...
You can be of the creative type as far as music and personnal projects are concerned but still need to earn some money working on "shity" projects (TV, commercials...) in "big" post studios (which mostly use PT). In this case, having PT at home helps a lot being more efficient when working in one of those big studios equiped with PT TDM/HD. A guy usually working on Logic or DP would be pretty lost...
Don't judge people and spit on them when you don't have the full picture...thank you.

Arses are like opinions,...

[damann]

for your information mr t
i work in all the big studios in london. olympic, townhouse, metropolis, sarm etc. not only do all of these studios use protools, they all use logic too!
transferring work from logic to tools couldn't be easier.
protools is used more as a tapemachine whereas logic as i said, is used for the creative stuff.
i've been using protools and logic software for about ten years, i was customer 25 worldwide for protools when it first appeared.
digidesigns' software should be way better than it is considering how long they've been in the business!!!
you'll also find me on the digi website(by my real name) talking about how i used sound replacer on steve gadd's drums while working on 1 of the 5 albums i've made with eric clapton!
chill out man, i'm allowed to have an opinion and it just happens to be based on nearly 20 years of solid PRO experience.
maybe next time you want to make assumptions about people in these forums, you should check out their profile...

[Mr.T]

you'll also find me on the digi website(by my real name) talking about how i used sound replacer on steve gadd's drums while working on 1 of the 5 albums i've made with eric clapton!  ;)
chill out man, i'm allowed to have an opinion and it just happens to be based on nearly 20 years of solid PRO experience.
maybe next time you want to make assumptions about people in these forums, you should check out their profile...

Dear Daman,
I don't need or want to check anyone's profile in order to know how good they are...I usually don't check someone's resume to know if he's good or not ... In fact, I don't give a damn about resume... You've made an album with E.Clapton?... Good for you!... Am I gonna bend over and lick your boots for that?... I don't think so... The fact that you've worked with Clapton doesn't mean a thing to me... It all depends on what you've done for the guy...and even if you should have produced/recorded and mixed his whole album, Clapton's records are, in my very small/ humble/ insignificant opinion, not what I would really called "creative stuffs"...far from it (with all due respect to the great musician HE is).
On the" Logic side", as I said, I was only speaking about the situation here in France (I know Logic is currently used in England). You're saying: "transfering work from Logic to tools couldn't be easier"... I'm not a Logic user, but I'm also a DP user, and I supposed you'll still get some troubles while exporting-importing from Logic to PT (due to each soft's"philosophy")->ex.: loops made in DP=>once imported in PT, it's bye-bye loops,start all over again...

Anyway... the saddest thing in all that is that I'm not even a huge PT fan and that I do agree on many points with you ("Garbage in, garbage out", Digi's gear too expensive and outdated on many points), I just happen to be a user convinced that, eventhough Digidesign has big big progress to make as far as its general policy's concerned, the soft is still pretty good and can be used for the exact same purposes as the other softs: post prod°, music, creative SFX... Thus, I'm just kinda surprised by your definitive assumptions about PT.
I've read your same kind of replies in many different posts (the ones were you say you have to be named Clapton to be able to buy PT... Funny now that I know you've worked for him...) and thought they sounded kinda subjective and exaggerated... That's all.
It's not the tools, it's mostly the man behind the tools...as long as the tools are good enough...which is the case with PT.

I'm done...as far as this subject's concerned.

[Francois Déchery]

please, keep cool guys!

peace...

[CeJeRo]

I personally have to say that I LOVE both ProTools and Logic because they are really designed for certain different reasons. Logic is great because it is designed for the composer, the Matrix editor is far superior than sequencing in ProTools or any other sequencer I've used (keep in mind this is simply an opinion, please no bashing I know others prefer other sequencers) so I use logic to do all of my sequencing. ProTools is great for editing and it's editing tools are great (again an opinion) the quality is also great when it comes to the TDM/RTAS/AS plugins. I have run into many neat but cheaper VST plugins available. My technique is using Logic to sequence the entire track. I export each track as one long audio file. Import each track into ProTools and EQ it, flange it, and edit it for sound effects. I'll also use ProTools for vocals. So IMHO I think that NO SEQUENCER is perfect and I think they work the best when used in conjunction with eachother. So concerning you're question as to what is better. It's all a matter of opinion. Many like Performer, many like Logic. Wars have been started reguarding which is the best, the best is really what you're personal preference is. Try out demos of each of the major sequencers and see which one you "bond with" if it's ProTools you have no other option than to get Digidesign hardware. I also am blown away that som have said that the Digidesign hardware is poor and expensive. I disagree (opinion yet again) I have found the inputs and outputs in the Digidesign hardware to be of the highest quality and thats the reason for the high cost therefor the cost is now justified. Though I do agree that for the beginning user, or hobbiest, the high end TDM systems are probably out of your league unless your family is really well off. If sub $1000 is ok for you to spend on one card by all means get the Digi001 the ability of ProTools and 2 focusrite XLR/1/4" inputs and 16 simultaneous inputs and outputs is really great (Guitar Center has them for 799 FYI) If you end up with a preference of Logic or Performer get the other hardware like the MOTU 828, or an M-Audio card (by Midiman) and use Logic or Performer. You can always decide to upgrade to ProTools MIX systems or HD systems if you so choose and use Logic and Performer on that hardware as well. So my two cents is simply see what you like, everyone is different, works different and thats good. Find out what YOU like. Sorry for going on, hope this helps somewhat.