600mhz Ibook, what can I expect from one? Options

[ottoasamotto]

I am looking at laptops to bring stuff to rehersals. I am really not impressed by the cheasy PC notebooks out there. The hardware can be a joke.

I had an iMac 33mhz and was always struggling with how slow it was. So I'm kinda worried about stepping into the sub-gig world of processors. But am hoping OSX makes up for it.

I plan on using Ableton modestly, as well as some sort of replacment for Fruity Loops to assemble loops.

What can I expect in terms of preformance?

[rickenbacker]

Ableton Live is VERY power hungry. A 600MHz iBook might struggle to run more than 8 tracks at once - at least mine does. Saying that, my iBook can run 16 tracks or more in Logic 6 quite happily, so it's not necessarily the processor that slows you down, it's the application.

[Synthetic]

as stated... its not always the CPU that slows you down... some OEM internal hard drives will slow things too as they just weren't really designed for intensive audio crunching and thus can limit the number of tracks usable too.

but if the Live app takes advantage of the velocity engine... I suggest getting a comparable (older g4) tibook for about the same price or just a tad more. I use Logic on my tibook 550mhz and have yet to encounter cpu limiting and only been limited by its hard drive so far.

This post has been edited by Synthetic: Wed 4 Jun 2003, 16:27

[squibcake]

i've got the 600 mHz ibook machine and i have some mixed reviews. i've been using it with a MOTU 828 which i used to swear by under OS 9 conditions. AudioDesk used to work like a charm with just the 828 and my 400 MHz Powerbook G3, and i wasn't really interested in anything but your most basic midi operations. Now that i'm getting into midi, OSX audio on my iboox 600 mHz with maxed-out ram of 640 MB has been fairly sluggish. Reason 2.5 eats it for lunch, even when you're just trying to listen to the demo files. Live is a processor hog as well because it does everything in real time (although there's a guy's profile on the ableton web site who talks about how much he loves to use live on his clamshell ibook and swears by the "workhorse" nature of the G3 processor). DP4 is big and clunky as an OSX app so far and i haven't really found a way to get into it yet. I'm thinking about getting rid of the 828 and picking up an MBox instead (i'd love some advice on this one)...i've heard good things about that little bugger in conjunction with the iBook and pro tools seems to still be the industry standard essential application. It just seems that there's no great solution right now and everybody's spending all of their time trying to figure out what's gonna work best for them before they buy it rather than sitting down and making some music.

I don't really know what's most important anymore...fast hard drive? killer processor? lots of ram? increased system bus? I just remember going to a huge studio and seeing the engineer run a crazy-intense pro tools session off a G3 blue and white tower and thinking, damn...that's all i need to make some music. turns out that it isn't. check into the new baby powerbook if you're into reason. the G4 seems to run it perfectly.

[ottoasamotto]

ahhh..too late.

got a 500mhz iBook w/ combo drive for super cheeeep.
so far i love it, but have not ran it hard enough yet.

i wonder about that guy with the clamshell too! wtf?!
and one of my favs, styrophone, uses (saw him live) a
G3 iBook as well! had it hooked up to the new Novation Remote 25, and some other doo-hickys.

i agree, pro-tools seems the way to go, and that m-box looks pretty darn practicle for only being a usb device. since i plan on using my firewire port for a high speed HD, i will need a usb interface.

on f my issues is i want to pull in some vst's to build loops with. logic seems like a sensible bit-o software, but i also have a baby HUI (got for free!) and would like to use that as a controller (works with DP, cubase and Pro-Tools

[Harvest]

something must be wrong with your machine. i have an ibook and reason is faster than i can think! -- rewire into dp, everything works great!, although mine is the 800 mhz model, that isnt too far off from yours. i dunno man update your osx or reinstall stuff.

[rickenbacker]

I don't know about this "Pro Tools is the industry standard" line, really. Emagic seem able to boast about some pretty big hitters using Logic, as do Steinberg for Cubase.

Yes, you get Pro Tools in a lot of studios, but are you actually going to be migrating your projects to such studios any time soon? I'm sure you could find a studio that used Logic or Cubase or DP4 or whatever app you start using now further down the line anyway.

The Mbox and the Digi001/002 are nice, but Digidesign want you to use their hardware with their software - they don't want you switching to Logic later and plugging your Mbox in. It's definitely not as straightforward as hooking up an 828. Now that'll work with almost anything. Or, saying that, any of the USB devices currently flooding the market.

Also, Pro Tools plug-ins are always much, much more expensive and much, much less common than either VST or AU plugs. Very nice, thoroughly professional, but very expensive. And I'm guessing no-one here has that much money.

Nothing wrong with Pro Tools - just don't get pressured in thinking it's the only true "pro" app out there and that all the rest are just pretending. People have made million sellers with Cubase on an Atari, for heaven's sake!

[Synthetic]

I don't know about this "Pro Tools is the industry standard" line, really. Emagic seem able to boast about some pretty big hitters using Logic, as do Steinberg for Cubase.

Yes, you get Pro Tools in a lot of studios, but are you actually going to be migrating your projects to such studios any time soon? I'm sure you could find a studio that used Logic or Cubase or DP4 or whatever app you start using now further down the line anyway.

The Mbox and the Digi001/002 are nice, but Digidesign want you to use their hardware with their software - they don't want you switching to Logic later and plugging your Mbox in. It's definitely not as straightforward as hooking up an 828. Now that'll work with almost anything. Or, saying that, any of the USB devices currently flooding the market.

Also, Pro Tools plug-ins are always much, much more expensive and much, much less common than either VST or AU plugs. Very nice, thoroughly professional, but very expensive. And I'm guessing no-one here has that much money.

Nothing wrong with Pro Tools - just don't get pressured in thinking it's the only true "pro" app out there and that all the rest are just pretending. People have made million sellers with Cubase on an Atari, for heaven's sake!

yeah... but I use Logic and PT with Digi001 and I will say Logic doesn't do audio editing and sequencing better than PT does. If you take a survey amongst serious pros that use both... They will probably tell you the same. Logic does midi better than PT but I get frustrated trying to make complicated cuts and edits with Logic compared to same task in ProTools. Since most major studios are more focused on audio recording and not complex midi composing... they opt for PT as it is more widely used in other studios so trading sessions between studios such as mixing to mastering is easier and it behaves more like a tape machine (theoretically really) which is the foundation that most recording engineers and mixers have in their past.

As for plugs... well if you compare any plugs that share VST, RTAS, MAS versions etc... they are same price no matter which format. Sure there are lots more cheaper VST plugs but sometimes you get what you pay for (not always but usually) and cheaper plugs sometimes means not as sophisticated algorithms and thus quality suffers compared to other products. For your average joe home musician... this doesn't seem like big deal but to studios that spends thousands on one compressor to get just the right sound... its inadequate and sub par. Remember... not all compressors sound alike just as not all synths sound alike.

I have Digi001 and it was no big deal to make it work with Logic. No hassle really but... the only downside I have with using Digi001 with Logic is that latency is a little worse than when using PT but that is only important if trying to dub over recorded passages. It just makes it a little difficult to monitor from Digi001 monitor outs while trying to record new selection but there are ways around it.

So yes... there are tons of other app choices for the average home user but... there are reasons while PT is more popular than most and yes not everyone needs PT to make good music but if you ever have thoughts of taking your material to professional mixer or want to add material recorded in a pro studio... using PT will make it easier

I don't want to start a sequncer app war but I have strong feelings for my Digi001. I used to have a Emi 2/6 as well and considered selling Digi001... for just a moment and then realized I wouldn't have PTLE to use if I sold and just couldn't part with it... so it is forever a piece of home studio

This post has been edited by Synthetic: Thu 12 Jun 2003, 00:29

[squibcake]

congrats on the ibook...but i wanted to remind you about the ability to daisychain firewire devices before you settle on a usb box just to free up your firewire port...the new 828 that is coming out has two firewire ports so it can go anywhere in a chain of firewire devices, and the old ones can function in a chain as long as they are the first device in the chain.

any advice on running reason effectively on an ibook would be greatly appreciated. granted, simple operations work fine but i wanna really start getting crazy with that new reverb unit and vocorder!

Viva the ibook (i'm writing this from it)...i guess. let's restore my faith in it one post at a time.

[ottoasamotto]

so can i daisychain a fast hard-drive AND an 828?