Mac Music Downloading? Options

[deaconblue]

Well I knew that would get y'all going.

So when your mate got the new Led Zep album and you had a spare C90 in your cassette player you sure as hell(or heaven) didn't go round and record it from his record player?

...

And by the way, I agree, stealing is still stealing.

I knew you were stirring the pot. well done... well played.

... 8-)

When the first Zep album I wanted came out, cassettes were just like computers. A thing of the future... 8-tracks were as close as it got and no one I knew had an 8 track recording deck...

But, yes. Copying an album to a cassette... I did for myself. Unfortunately I was the one who wanted the album enough to buy them, and the 8 track ... and then copy the LP to cassette for my car after I could afford both the cassette deck and the car stereo with a cassette in it. Purely portable.

However, slight difference, although only one of scale, since if I copied an album to cassette and handed it to a friend. It went one step. Again, time frame, no one had cassette duping decks then. Now, put it on your hard drive, launch Limewire or other p2p software, share it with thousands upon thousands of faceless IPs. And you know what? That cassette shared with a friend usually resulted in tickets to the concert for the both of us and the vinyl being purchased by the friend to play on their own turntable at home.

I hear the argument. And agree with it to an extent. The RIAA and the record labels decried cassettes when they came out as the end of the music industry. They were wrong. They cried the same thing when MP3s hit. They were wrong. MP3s and even file sharing have not hurt the industry. The industry's inability to adjust to the paradigm shift in the way people got their music is what has hurt the industry's bottom line.

That and offering up the same pabulum to the masses while ignoring true talent at every turn because instead of a label spending the time and money to nurture an artist, the majority of them now only look to how many units the artist can move 'this quarter'. Not long term. In the next 3 months. Because it has gotten to be a short term game.

I personally think that the way to go is to release albums as free MP3 downloads on the artists' sites (Darren Watson just did this with his "King Size" and Doyle Bramhall II did it with "Welcome" and Radiohaed just did it with "Rainbow" on a pay as much as you want, even free). Then sell a DVD with full liner notes, artwork, lyrics, special features, etc. The MP3s will drive the demand. The DVD will take care of the bottom line. And, hopefully, will provide a chance for artists that don't fit a specific mold to get their voice heard since labels wouldn't be risking as much to promote an artist by having their music available in a less than pristine iteration (anyone really think any MP3 or other 'lossless' format sounds great?) will drive demand for a good quality copy.

Besides, I'd much rather hear an artist's 8-10 best tracks for this round rather than 18 mediocre tracks cobbled together to meet some contractual obligation.

Only one thing more to say... ROCK ON! Be responsible. And, follow the golden rule (no, not 'he who has the gold makes the rules...', the other one...)

peace.

[Mac Daddy]

I really love 440...

The Members are Creative & Clever... Deadly combination...

BTW Prince used to be my Hero until he showed up in Hamburg and stole 200 Euros from me... Most crappy Concert I have ever been to... The only thing good was Maceo Parker and a fine female on sax (Must have been Maceo's.... Student).

If you ever hear about someone who has been jailed and is being sued by Prince for kicking him in his cute lil butt... It's me... Unless he gives me my 200 back! I know, I'm an idiot.

[Mac Daddy]

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I watched the Video and wow! Cost $100.00 or about 60 Euros.

Most importantly, no hissssssssssssssssssssssssss. Smile

[jimdubpram]

I really love 440...

The Members are Creative & Clever... Deadly combination...

BTW Prince used to be my Hero until he showed up in Hamburg and stole 200 Euros from me... Most crappy Concert I have ever been to... The only thing good was Maceo Parker and a fine female on sax (Must have been Maceo's.... Student).

If you ever hear about someone who has been jailed and is being sued by Prince for kicking him in his cute lil butt... It's me... Unless he gives me my 200 back! I know, I'm an idiot.

I really love 440...

The Members are Creative & Clever... Deadly combination...

BTW Prince used to be my Hero until he showed up in Hamburg and stole 200 Euros from me... Most crappy Concert I have ever been to... The only thing good was Maceo Parker and a fine female on sax (Must have been Maceo's.... Student).

If you ever hear about someone who has been jailed and is being sued by Prince for kicking him in his cute lil butt... It's me... Unless he gives me my 200 back! I know, I'm an idiot.

Forget Prince. I never yet met an honest royal!
This'll make you smile : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQRYR5_H3cY
Love you too 'Dad'

[mortalengines]

My last two cents worth, I swear. People are willing to buy good music. I have been to epitonic.com and found myself paying for the full length CD after hearing a couple of mp3s (Blonde Redhead, Radiohead, Peaches....the list goes on). Giving away a song or two can often whet the appetite of the consumer. There is no shame in this. I actually get 13 cents per download from Napster of my own material. Better than nothing. A funny thing about home made cassettes.....I never could seem to hang on to them. They always wound up lost (probably under the seat of a friends car) or loaned and never returned. The good music I wound up buying in the end. I have shelled out hard earned cash for every Led Zeppelin recording (often buying the same release twice) available. I just bought the Zepp 3 and Presence CD reissues (they sound incredible by the way). I also just bought 2 copies of Radiohead's new CD (one for me and one for a certain young lady I am trying to "butter up"....wish me luck).

www.myspace.com/mortal_engines

This post has been edited by mortalengines: Thu 17 Jan 2008, 00:54

[pushtobreak]

The real argument stems with the concept of ownership. How does anyone own anything? Certainly we all come to this universe with inalienable equal rights to all things it has to offer. However, humans have created their own construct for how things should be divided up. I personally, would love everything to be shared equally, at least in my theoretical, utopian mind but, this is not our reality. One could make the argument that if I could fight off or perhaps kill anyone trying to enter a piece of land I am holding, that it would be mine...since that's how all land ownership originally came into being. This of course would lead the "authorities" to come kill catch or arrest me and quickly put a stop to my actions. This is because we have these things called laws. Laws are very complicated many I don't understand or even appreciate. However, they exist to serve us the citizens and of course the powers that be. Laws are actually the way that those folks who took the land to begin with manage to keep it!...But, they don't really need the laws as they could always just use force which is what they do when the laws don't work for one reason or another. In any case back in our utopian minds these laws stem from the idea of civilization. The idea that we can have a human contract, an agreement, that we will stick to in good faith..in other words our "word". This is the foundation for all civilization. In ancient times your "word" was paramount to your worth as a human and telling a lie was sufficient grounds for death, as it reduced you to nothing more than an animal. Of course, people lie all the time and people steal and people disagree with the laws but, for the most part people are honest and law abiding.

Why should someone pay for something they can get for free?
Many people do not like paying taxes but still do. Some people cheat a little, some a lot and some don't pay at all! So why do people pay? Two reasons, they know it's the right thing to do and fear of getting caught by the authorities. So, in the case of the illegal file sharing we'll assume that people doing it don't see anything wrong with it (seemingly wanting to harm the very people who's content they desire/appreciate or perhaps just not realizing that it does so). Since they are however, breaking the law the authorities will act to protect those who's properties are taken. As in the wild west it is hard to catch criminals in a new arena where they have the advantage but, they will catch a few and make examples of them. However unpopular this may be it will deter the average person from joining in the free for all. It does seem to me that the average person has conceded to the fact that a song is worth 99 cents and that taking it for free is not right. I don't agree with a lot of things in this world but, if someone is asking a price for something they created I would honor that even if I could just take it free...I mean after all if the physical ability to take something is really all that matters then bullies and thugs rule, which in reality they do but, in my idealistic world good prevails over evil and we still have a human contract. Unfortunately, the ultimate authority chain goes like this nukes, large weapons, armies, laws, guns...down to hand to hand combat and then there is bickering which is what we do here.

All ownership is questionable but, hey, I think if I took something of yours you probably wouldn't like it. Yes, ideas are patentable and intellectual property does exist and is protected by law whether one likes it or not. This is connected to every facet of our society.

[Mac Daddy]

jimdubpramgaragebandman,

Thanks for the: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQRYR5_H3cY

I enjoyed it very much. I'm grinning so much my ugly face broke.

So the 440 Members can understand our inside joke: "Forget Prince. I never yet met an honest royal!"

I call myself, King.

jimdubpramgaragebandman, naughty, naughty, naughty. LOL.

[Mac Daddy]

pushtobreak. I've heard it before, although your Post was/is presented in an articulate manner are you saying:

Even though I spent 40 years learning music, paying dues, composing original musical ideas, lyrics, spentd my hard earn cash purchasing Hardware and Legal Software. It's alright for someone to just take it FREE?

Tell you what. If I found one of my songs were stolen and on someones iPod or whatever, I would take and keep that iPod. I'm very "Street" when it comes to justice. I would not take the thief to court, I would take their iPod. If they protested they would either have to kick my butt to get it back or take me to court. If the court sided with them, I would do time for assault. I will give or share what is mine, but if you take/steal from me, I feel 100% justified in bringing pure physical pain. I think I'm either going to jail or I'll have plenty of iPods for sale...

"Grasshopper San, foul-play would prove hazzardous to your health, especially when dealing with an angry opinionate elder. I would rather die than continue living knowing someone ripped me off. I don't negotiate with Music Terrorist. Om" (I'm joking about the Om, but nothing else)

[jimdubpram]

Re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQRYR5_H3cY

I felt so inspired I have mixed him into a tune. You can check it here: http://www.sampleswap.org/artist/jimdubtrix

The song is 'Talkin Rasta Man Blues'

LOL

Jim

[pushtobreak]

Mac Daddy,
It's quite funny, I was actually arguing for exactly the opposite. I too have spent many years now as a professional musician, spent a lot of money on gear and other peoples music. ('79-93 non-prof, '93-present pro, major label releases and last year, incredibly, a Grammy nomination). I hate the idea of people stealing music, which is what I believe it is unless the author has decided to give it away. I guess my argument was so obtuse that it was unclear (I can understand why as I have always been fairly anti-establishment.) But, as you pointed out and was my original point, the law of the "streets" is what is reality, or maybe that should be "jungle" or "might is right". Something I learned growing up in the streets of Brooklyn: someone always has a meaner older brother or crazier uncle or bigger baseball bat or even a gun that will change your mind. Law enforcement is nothing more than an extension of that concept but, it is there to serve the citizens, who hopefully have helped elect and push for laws that protect their interests. It is also an extension of the human contract. I do believe that if people who have a stake in losing their property continue to fight for what is theirs they will win...after all what is the argument for the other side? "music should be free"? How can anyone expect us to accept that? Yes, I believe my music is my property just like the owner of a patent, the author of a book or creator of software etc...our entire society is based on this. (At this point I could go on about the flaws of capitalism and the benefits of socialized medicine etc..but let's just say we deserve fair compensation for creative and technical achievements that benefit mankind. So, if someone could create enough funding for the arts that I didn't need to "sell" my music that would be fine by me too...but, until then...)

Taking a persons iPod isn't going to stop illegal downloading. The law is a much better threat. Hell, we pay taxes so laws will be enforced so, we don't have to go to jail to have justice... and while I don't necessarily like the idea, the government could kill or even Nuke someone for us and get away with it. Okay there I go again...anyway, read the last paragraph of what I wrote again, I think at least that's clear.