Looking For A Start In Music, Just ordered a new iMac G5 Options

[enygma]

Hi, I am kinda new to what is available in the world of the Mac. I have ordered a new iMac G5 computer with 512MB of RAM and started looking at Garage Band. I wanted to talk to my uncle regarding things having to do with music as he used a Mac to create the songs for all his albums using Digital Performer (not sure of the version). However, I am looking at Garage Band and Logic as possible options, but I am not sure where to start, or what equipment I would need, or how it all works. I used to do music tracking on my old 486 PC in DOS with Impulse Tracker 2.14, and I am wanting to get back into music.

What do I need to know to head in the right direction? What do I need to use? What is the differences between programs like Garage Band, Digital Performer and Logic?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[twain]

I've never used garageband so I can't really comment on it.
But . . .
Your setup will vary depending on the style of music you want to play. For example recording a live band, is going to be alot different than writing techno.
But here's the basics:
1. A computer with a good amount of ram, and good cpu. RAM should probably be at least 1gig. 2 hard drives is preferable. 1 for all your programs etc, and one for all your audio files, since audio files are so big.
2. a sequencer. there's a bunch. DP4, Logic, Ableton Live 4, Cubase, etc. Sequencers, as a general rule, all have similar features. that's not to say there aren't different features! But most people choose theirs based on how comfortable they are with the interface. I have bought far too many searching for one I liked. My quick review:
Cubase is fairly easy to learn and does exactly what you'd expect. This is actually one of my favorites.
Logic in my opinion is terrible. Don't waste your money. It's really difficult to figure out, and takes loads of time to do simple things. I like the way trent reznor described it. It just looks like a bunch of math. It doesn't really, but it's still a funny comment, and it IS an irritating program. AND it costs $1000!
DP4 I bought. It is really a neat program and enjoyable to use. It's a bit harder to learn though, and there's no book out yet to help (like the ". . . Power!" series. that's about all I can say since I haven't used it much. A book comes out at the end of nov.
Ableton Live 4 is a wonderful program. It's not the best sequencer in the world (it's missing loads of important stuff) BUT despite this, it's still my main sequencer at the moment. It's a loops based program and works great with altering loops and recording your own loops or full performance etc. It just incorporated midi too, so now you don't have to rewire to cubase etc. It can be a bit confusing at first, but when you get it it's great.
3. A book to help you learn which ever program you choose. They're all difficult and take time to learn. Don't expect to just dive right in and start recording immediately if you buy one of these programs.
4. An audio midi interface. This helps you get sound and midi in and out of your computer. Be careful which one you buy though, some are crap, and companies like M-audio haven't worked very hard to develope the drivers needed for macs.
6. If you're gonna do midi you need a midi controller. You can get one for like $100
7. plug ins. You know, effects to alter the sound of your audio you recorded, like distortion eq, reverb, etc And softsynths. which are software synthesizers. Native instruments has a bunch. Drum machines, keyboards etc. A really good program is Reason 2.5. It comes with loads of synths and effects (which can only be used in reason). It is a standalone sequencer (can't record audio though), but it can be rewired to a traditional sequencer.
8. A preamp if your not using a self powered mic. Some audio interfaces come with them. Or you could just buy a stero in sterio out interface and a small mixer that has a preamp built in, and run the out puts to the interface.
9. Monitors, or speakers, so you can here what you're doing!

And that's about it. I use, live 4, reason, and cubase primarily. Although live 4 and reason are enough.
Beware m-audio products. DON'T buy the firewire 410 (audio midi interface)
Oh yeah, be careful which interface you buy, they have different latencies, and when monitoring through your sequencer it can make recording stuff difficult when your interface plays the sound you just made a split second after you did.
I think I mentioned everything.

[twain]

Oh yeah I did forget something. One of the most well known sequencers is protools. Most people think its the bet thing ever. I don't know, I've never used it. BUT on the other hand you can buy m-box and get it protools le free with an audio/midi interface for 500$ That's what I would do if i were in your position. Than use the rest of my money for plugins and RAM etc.

[enygma]

Ok, I am looking to play around and doo all types of music. Basically, I am just wanting to try and develop a talent. I have music going through my head alot. Everything from orchestrated music to electronic compositions, with a bit in between like rock or hip hop or whatever.

So these are the inputs I will have on my iMac G5:

Audio in
Audio Out
Video Out
3 USB
2 Firewire
56k
ethernet

My brother has an electric guitar, if I wanted to record some chords from his guitar, how would I go about doing that? Is it possible to lay down 1 track with the guitar in a certain distortion, and lay down another track as an accoustic with any of these programs? How are these programs for orchestrated music?

For insturments and equipment, what separates one USB-MIDI keyboard from another if I am laying down tracks through the software?

If I am using a second drive, would an external Firewire drive do since there is no room for a second hard drive in the iMac G5?

I am new to getting more into the perfessional end of audio, so I don't fully understand what some of this equipment is or what it is used for, other than a MIDI keyboard and anything to do with computer hardware. As for software, I personally come from a technical background and mainly do work in 3D modelling and animation, as well as video editing. The main application I use is Maya. It is a higher end 3D application and can get very technical when it comes to creating shaders and scrips, so I am used to getting technical into things. With this kind of mind set, would it make sense to give Logic Express 7 a shot as it is much cheaper than Pro? If there is a larger learning curve to Logic than these other programs, is it also capable of doing some things that other sequencers can't? For example, in Maya, as a 3D package, it has a fairly hard learning curve to it, but if you get right into the software, learn the scripting and more advanced features, you can create automated animation scripts, croud simulation, shaders that react differently depending on the angle it is viewed at or the ammount of light touching it, or even change the entire interface, which is something alot of other 3D packages are unable to do.

I'm not sure if I have any other questions at the moment, but if I have any more, I won't hesitate to ask. Like I said, I have only been used to using free tracking software for making electronic music before and I feel that now that I am getting this iMac, I might as well step it up a notch.

[Dreadman718]

Twain I can honestly say if anyone asked for someone's opinion you win the prize! Other than that your comment about Logic being terrible? Probably because you just don't get it isn't fair to Enygma. Logic is an amazing program and out of the box is well worth the 1,000. Let's try and buy a plugin bundle for Pro Tools? You just seem to like things that are simple to use and that's understandable. Flexibility and room for growth is key in my opinion and that is Logic.
Quoting Trent Reznor? Come on get it together! Anyone who is curious to get into music production should just check out the product demos.
I have used several programs and yes I have used Pro Tools and still feel that Logic is the logical way to go. Be safe everyone

[kaboombahchuck]

OK folks, no need to get hostile!
Deadmans most apropiate statement was "Anyone who is curious to get into music production should just check out the product demos."
Having said that, I believe that you should start with Garage Band. It is the most powerfull beginner tool I've seen in a long time. Plenty of effects... The midi portion is kinda week, but I'm shure their working on it. You were asking about laying down a distorted track, then a clean track with guitar. This can be done with GB, except you got it back wards.. Lay down the clean track, then you can add effects (amp simulation ect). This works real well with GB.

There is really no differance between keyboard midi controllers as far as getting the midi data desired into the midi sequencing program.. Find a controller you like the feel of, and go with that.

It would be a good idea to get an external firewire drive as it will keep your iMac running efficiantly as possible, without a great deal of maintanance (Not desirable with OSX).

Judging by your tech skills and you willingness to have an openended program, I would highly recomend Metro 6 from Sagan Technologies. Unlike the "big boys" Metro works well with almost any software, or hardware. Metro is even Rewire compliant, so it can slave GB to aleiviate any weeknesses GB has. Also when buying a new mac it is aways a good idea to have a progam that will work with the newest OS (a real weekness with Pro Tools and M-Audio products).

When buying interfaces (midi or audio) I highly recomend MOTU.. Flawless with new OS's (another weekness with the M-Audio interfaces)

This post has been edited by kaboombahchuck: Mon 4 Oct 2004, 08:10

[twain]

Sorry to offend you deadman. Just giving him my opinion on things. Nothing sucks worse than to shell out a bunch of money and get home only to decide you've bought garbage and are now stuck with it. I've done this quite a few times. And to being uber rich I don't just have the money to always go remedy the mistake. My audio interface is one example, my 410 has terrible latency, and after spending several days tryig to correct the situation, all I've discovered is there are lots of other other mac users who are just as disappointed in their products as I am. And now I don't have a usable AI!

[WaterDog]

twain gave an excellent overall view of some of the basics on the tools available put there. When it comes to software, though, everyone is going to work differently, and so different tools may work for you than work for me...

My two bits: If you're starting out, though, I think Garage Band or Metro are great programs too, and WAY cheaper. They offer enough features to suit many musical and production styles. If you use one of them, and start to feel limited, then you could move up to something like Logic or DP. There are a ton of good and inexpensive audio interfaces out there. I just got a Tascam US122 for my laptop for about $100. Sounds great (less filling!) and rock solid.

One thing - MOTU just came out with DP 4.5, which puts it more on par with Live (and the new Logic 7) by adding Beat Detection, Time Stretching, etc--also improved score to picture features, and some other improvements. Check it out at motu.com

Personally, I use Digital Performer for most of my sequencing and Quicktime scoring, and do prefer the DP interface to Logic. As good as twain's post was, I don't agree that Logic is "crap." Logic is a bit thorny, and its interface confuses many (myself included) but Logic is an amazing tool, and includes softsynths, samplers and effects that, frankly, DP doesn't. MANY pros use Logic, and for good reason. If I won the lottery, I'd buy it.

Speaking of Reason, I also use and love Reason, and I find that I use Live more and more instead of DP--although Live's sequencing features are in the early stages, they work flawlessly. Between DP, Live and Reason, with Sample Tank 2 and a couple of EMU modules, I have a pretty good life in the studio. But you can make great music with FAR less.


Hope this helps.

[enygma]

Ok, so I already have a cheap $120 MIDI supported keyboard I bought for my Fiance from Radio Shack. So with the Tascam US122 interface, am I able to hook up that keyboard and interface it with the software?

Plus, I notice after checking out this website (http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASUS122) that the interface is not supported under Jaguar. Is this old news or are there drivers that support Jaguar now? Any speculation as to whether it will be supported in Tiger or not when that hits the shelves?

I figured I might just play around in Garage Band for now, but look into using Digital Performer if I get to that point. My uncle has used DP to record most of his albums over the past many years so I figure it would be nice to have someone I know to talk to regarding it.

Anyways, I really appreciate your help so far.

[Jaysee]

re Digital Performer 4, I recently bought a 'how to' book on it called 'Producing music with digital performer' from 'Berklee Press' which seems to be endorsed by the folks at MOTU. Not too dear at around 17 quid. Mind you I've yet to discover how good it is (or the bible sized manual which DP4 comes supplied with) coz I'm STILL waiting for my G5 to arrive so I can install the damned thing and write some music!
cheers, jaysee.