Will External Sound Card Improve Playback From Itunes And Other Online Music?, Wondering if an external sound card for the iMac Intel will improve so Options

[Sadhu]

See very little on sound cards for the iMac. While I know that many users purchase sound cards for MacPro desktops, I am wondering if an external sound peripheral will improve the playback sound off my iMac Intel unit ... for sound OTHER THAN the tracks that I record or input INTO such a peripheral. In other words will I hear any improved audio quality if I purchase a good quality external sound card when listing back through my computer ... say through iTunes or through a high quality stream? I'm not concerned about the "value" of $ spent to the amount to improvement. I am simply interested to know if there will be an improvement in over all quality (say more defined bass, or tighther bass, or a more natural sounding midrange and high end?

Anyone have any comments on external sound cards and whether they improve the sound? If so, anyone have any suggestions on what products to look at? I eventually plan to buy a Mac Pro, so I don't mind spending more on good external card if they can be had as an external device for the mac.

Would appreciate any and all comments. Thanks in advance.

- Sadhu

[minskybabs]

Hi there, my thoughts, for what they are worth, is that yes an external audio interface "can" improve the playback from itunes and other online music. As the other people have suggested the conversion from digital to analogue, D/A will often be better, but, and here's the catch only on some interfaces and only on some sources. A very cheap intrerface will probably not be noticeably better than the built in, but an expensive one almost certainly would be. try before you buy if you can. Take in a digital file and play back through a shop mac and then compare same file through an interface. As people have suggested MOTU, RME, Apogee, various prices and generally the more you pay the better you get, up to a point.

Other factors, some audio files are poor in the first place, no amount of mioney will make a lo fi recording sound hi fi, but you appear to be talking about high quality recordings, so you should see improvements. Your other point about headphone impedences could also be a factor, but this is why try before you buy is good. Or get a dedicated headphone pre amp too. Though that is yet more bucks!

Good luck.
Minskybabs

[Sadhu]

Hi there, my thoughts, for what they are worth, is that yes an external audio interface "can" improve the playback from itunes and other online music. As the other people have suggested the conversion from digital to analogue, D/A will often be better, but, and here's the catch only on some interfaces and only on some sources. A very cheap intrerface will probably not be noticeably better than the built in, but an expensive one almost certainly would be. try before you buy if you can. Take in a digital file and play back through a shop mac and then compare same file through an interface. As people have suggested MOTU, RME, Apogee, various prices and generally the more you pay the better you get, up to a point.

Other factors, some audio files are poor in the first place, no amount of mioney will make a lo fi recording sound hi fi, but you appear to be talking about high quality recordings, so you should see improvements. Your other point about headphone impedences could also be a factor, but this is why try before you buy is good. Or get a dedicated headphone pre amp too. Though that is yet more bucks!

Good luck.
Minskybabs

Thanks for your comments. I trust you understood that I was playing back via the iMac into the external device be it MOTU, RME, or Apogee ... which ever I end up buying. I will not doubt buy a good external box for use for RECORDING and not just playback. I quite understand many of the factors about recording and do know that you can turn make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am somewhat experienced in recording in Analog having gone to Eastman School of Music's school of Recording during the 1970s and having run a 24 Track Analog recording studio in the 70s, and many of the recording principals for Analog still apply to the world of Digital. So I do understand your point about poor audio files remaining poor audio files, and likewise about heaphone impediences. It's somewhat difficult to try before I buy here in the Greater Buffalo area as none of the stores that I know of have live setups for digital gear they sell and even if they did, probably most of them would already be using a Mac Pro and not an iMac since it's not the appropropriate piece of gear for professional recording ... the Mac Pro Desktop is. Again, my interest was in buying an external device for use the iMac that could eventually use when I buy a Mac Pro, which I intend to do. Hence my question regarding whether the external card would improve the sound of the iMac playback.

I am surprised actually to hear that you think it will. Many people have told me it would not improve the sound and that it would be complete and total waste of money in relation to use with the iMac. I do think it would enable higher quality recordings on the iMac but that I wouldn't necessary hear any difference on the iMac when it came to playback. That this would only be possible on the Mac Pro.

You are the first one to suggest that I could gain some benefit from the external sound device with regard to PLAYBACK on the iMac. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

- Sadhu


"I quite understand many of the factors about recording and do know that you can turn make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

Obviously, I meant to say that "YOU CAN'T make a silk purse out of sow's ear!"

and would hope that you realized that's what I meant.

[deaconblue]

Sadhu,

For the iMac you reference (iMac Late 2006) the audio out ports have the following specs:

"The headphone / line output jack accommodates both digital optical audio output and analog audio output with a 24-bit, 16-96 kHz D/A converter."

If you purchase any external device, 1/8" analog, FireWire, USB or the digital audio interface, as long as the device's specifications are better than these you will have superior audio quality using an external interface over the internal. If you use a device with lower combined specifications, you will not achieve the goal you are attempting.

Regardless of those factors, any MP3 or other MPEG/Compressed stream, audio source file that you play on any computer will result in sound degradation as there is no such thing as loss-less compression. I would consider the sound source file to be your primary limiting factor in achieving audiophile representation on any computer.

I have success with a MOTU 828 via FireWire producing better quality audio output than my built in, not because of better specifications, but because of a cleaner signal path and better impedance/ability to more properly drive my headphones.

Hope this helps.

peace.

deacon

[Sadhu]

Sadhu,

For the iMac you reference (iMac Late 2006) the audio out ports have the following specs:

"The headphone / line output jack accommodates both digital optical audio output and analog audio output with a 24-bit, 16-96 kHz D/A converter."

If you purchase any external device, 1/8" analog, FireWire, USB or the digital audio interface, as long as the device's specifications are better than these you will have superior audio quality using an external interface over the internal. If you use a device with lower combined specifications, you will not achieve the goal you are attempting.

Regardless of those factors, any MP3 or other MPEG/Compressed stream, audio source file that you play on any computer will result in sound degradation as there is no such thing as loss-less compression. I would consider the sound source file to be your primary limiting factor in achieving audiophile representation on any computer.

I have success with a MOTU 828 via FireWire producing better quality audio output than my built in, not because of better specifications, but because of a cleaner signal path and better impedance/ability to more properly drive my headphones.

Hope this helps.

peace.

deacon

Thank you for comments, Deacon. they are encouraging and helpful. Let me ask, at the risk of sounding silly, and if you don't mind saying, what headphones you use? I have many different makes and models myself, Grado, Beyer, AKG, and Sennheisser. I'm afraid my recording teachers forced me to learn to listen through as many transducers as possible when recording, and the habits of checking out various recordings of others on different transducers has stuck with me over the years. I find no one brand ends up being best suited to all recordings ... although some are more comfortable to wear than others.

So, anyway taking into account that certain headphones sometimes are more fitting for speficic combinations of instruments (rather than genre), may ask if there is a particular match up or match-ups you have heard with the Moto and liked with the Moto? The Moto matchup and your match is what I'd be interested in here.

I have found that what I've been hearing and disliking on the iMac comes from comparing the SAME source material on both Windows and iMac using the same headphones. I have tried different headphones too, but haven't a record of how their impedances varry. Pretty much the same results throughout. This is what led to me ask about external cards. However, this result, as you say is still as likely to be impediance and the proper matchup of output and headphones as anything else. So thanks for that for that reminder.

Do you listen to regular transducers (loudspeakers) as well as headphones from the output of Moto (into additional pre-amp/ampliers) If so, with what result? Perhaps you have a high quality set of powered speakers. I have a set of powered studio quality self-powered speakers KRK V8s, which are normally hooked up to my keyboards, but have yet to bring them down to listen the iMac. Your answer isn't going to reveal any absolutes, this much I know, but I am curious nonetheless if you've listended out of the moto through any loudspeakers.

Thanks again, deacon.

[deaconblue]

Sadhu,

No worries. That is what these forums are all about. Helping each other out. AND, I must state there are far more brilliant minds on here than I (le petit martien, macdaddy, mortalengines to name just a very few of those who have helped out on many topics over time).

I use the MOTU 828 with the following: a Sony reference headphone (Sony Pro MDR-7506), the Audio-Technica ATH-M40ƒs, the AKG K-55s and the Sennheiser HD280 Pro. I also listen to the sound source from a pair of JBL 4408s driven by a Hafler TA1100 amp.

And I agree, different loudspeakers and headphone produce different frequencies better and are therefore better suited to different music types. But I try to get both speakers and headphones that add as little color as possible to my sounds since I use them primarily to mix and master various works. If it sound good in the cans, it may not sound good on a set of speakers. But if it sounds good in both (reference sets specifically) it may not sound good in your car or even your home stereo. I try to push the sound through as many sources as possible before I settle on a final mix. The outs of my MOTU also run to my stereo (Technics SA-300 [about 28 years old]) and then into either a matched set of Technics speakers (same vintage) or my Polk Audio reference monitors. This way I get a good range of tonal 'validations' before I get the final sound.

Also, I agree that this response, nor any other on this forum re: this specific topic, will produce any absolutes for you, but they should guide you to make a better informed decision.

I wish you luck in making the purchase. Spend as much as you can on your gear so it will last you a lot longer. But, once you make the jump, have no regrets. There is always going to be something newer and/or better out there. Just get what sounds best to your ears. That is what truly matters.

peace.
deacon

This post has been edited by deaconblue: Thu 4 Oct 2007, 02:30